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J
I mean it for everybody in the sense that we ought to expect an increase in evil men and seducers. We are in a spiritual war and Satan's ministers, like Pharaoh's magicians of old, do have supernatural powers at their disposal at times as well. We need to be careful in relation to what types of "spirits" we allow in our midst. Again, Paul warned of "another Jesus", "another gospel" AND "another spirit". If the Jesus being preached isn't truly the Jesus of scripture and if the gospel being preached isn't truly the gospel of Christ, then we can be sure that there is "another spirit" at work. Do you know what happened in the church that I used to attend? Right in the midst of this alleged "move of the Spirit" which prompted the pastor to actually remove the first 5 rows of pews from the church so people could roll around on the floor laughing their heads off due to alleged "holy laughter", THE EVANGELISM TEAM DISMANTLED. I actually went to the pastor and tried to reason with him by reminding him that the Holy Spirit came to convict or convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment and that He does so indirectly through the preaching of the gospel and that any true "move of the Spirit" would inevitably involve/include the same, but it was like I was talking to a brick wall.
As I have said before, I was a charismatic/pentecostal the first 15 years after I got saved. I was lied to in the Vineyard, the Pentecostal church had no time to counsel a couple with marriage issues (10 pastors, 1 couple!) (but we got help later from secular sources!)
The other BIG reason, is that I began to see the shallowness of the doctrine. Everything was about tongues and signs. Although I will admit that some of the Pentecostals did have a heart for the lost.
I also saw that shallow doctrine resulted in shallow and unethical character. Nothing that was preached, was what I was reading in my Bible, which I loved to read and study.
So a few years in an Evangelical Free church, which had an elder board that was dominating and controlling, and kept firing awesome pastors, if they didn't tow their line.
Finally, God called me to a Baptist church. WOW! I finally heard a preacher who was preaching from the same Bible I was reading. His knowledge of the Word of God was amazing. And when he started encouraging the young men to go to Seminary, I heard the call of God - one of the best things that ever happened to me - growing and getting close to God, hearing his voice, and really learning the Word of God.
I am in my third Baptist Convention, after moving a few times. I love my church. People raise their hands, as the Bible says to do, in praise of God. The messages are incredible, with real unity from week to week, even though we have a different preacher every week in the summer. It is God orchestrating the message. That is the Holy Spirit moving!
And the depth of character in the leadership - pastors and elders is astounding. From small things to the big - I see people who are truly deep in their walk with God and teaching it in word and deed to the congregation.
So my answer is that all these nonsense demonstrations are actually destroying the walks of Christians. Instead of digging into God's Word for answers about how to live, they get caught in the very shallow experiences and outer signs, instead of growing in both in spirit and in the knowledge of God's gift to us - the Bible.
The other BIG reason, is that I began to see the shallowness of the doctrine. Everything was about tongues and signs. Although I will admit that some of the Pentecostals did have a heart for the lost.
I also saw that shallow doctrine resulted in shallow and unethical character. Nothing that was preached, was what I was reading in my Bible, which I loved to read and study.
So a few years in an Evangelical Free church, which had an elder board that was dominating and controlling, and kept firing awesome pastors, if they didn't tow their line.
Finally, God called me to a Baptist church. WOW! I finally heard a preacher who was preaching from the same Bible I was reading. His knowledge of the Word of God was amazing. And when he started encouraging the young men to go to Seminary, I heard the call of God - one of the best things that ever happened to me - growing and getting close to God, hearing his voice, and really learning the Word of God.
I am in my third Baptist Convention, after moving a few times. I love my church. People raise their hands, as the Bible says to do, in praise of God. The messages are incredible, with real unity from week to week, even though we have a different preacher every week in the summer. It is God orchestrating the message. That is the Holy Spirit moving!
And the depth of character in the leadership - pastors and elders is astounding. From small things to the big - I see people who are truly deep in their walk with God and teaching it in word and deed to the congregation.
So my answer is that all these nonsense demonstrations are actually destroying the walks of Christians. Instead of digging into God's Word for answers about how to live, they get caught in the very shallow experiences and outer signs, instead of growing in both in spirit and in the knowledge of God's gift to us - the Bible.
A
It's not just tongues. It's dancing. It's shouting out something when it's prayer time. (In English, since tongues was already covered.) It's getting up to "share" something that often really sounded good, unless you knew the sharer. (What was said was usually was not the way the people lived their lives.) It's this effort to put on a show for others, even when the people weren't the leaders of the church. It's the worship music being more about getting the troops rallied.
When I was in Charismatic churches, my brother also convinced us to get into Amway. There were little quiet get-togethers that taught the newbies how to sell the product. And then there were bigger get-togethers to rejoice in all things Amway. And then there was the time where a big-wig (high-tiered Amway salesman) came to talk. He had a Rolls Royce back at home. He came on his own private jet. We all went to meet him. We were all dressed up. (I was actually wearing a dress. I don't even wear dresses to churches, unless a big-wig comes to town. lol) And it dawned on me while everyone was going gaga over this guy -- this isn't any different than church. It's a pep rally to talk us into something I honestly never wanted in the first place. I didn't want a fancy car or a jet.
And I didn't want to waste my time looking all spiritual to impress others. It's an experience that doesn't last until kickoff on Sunday football.
When I was in Charismatic churches, my brother also convinced us to get into Amway. There were little quiet get-togethers that taught the newbies how to sell the product. And then there were bigger get-togethers to rejoice in all things Amway. And then there was the time where a big-wig (high-tiered Amway salesman) came to talk. He had a Rolls Royce back at home. He came on his own private jet. We all went to meet him. We were all dressed up. (I was actually wearing a dress. I don't even wear dresses to churches, unless a big-wig comes to town. lol) And it dawned on me while everyone was going gaga over this guy -- this isn't any different than church. It's a pep rally to talk us into something I honestly never wanted in the first place. I didn't want a fancy car or a jet.
And I didn't want to waste my time looking all spiritual to impress others. It's an experience that doesn't last until kickoff on Sunday football.
A
Um, I am the disabled girl. 
So, not so much try to understand/know him as waiting for him? I'm not saying you're one of them, but the vast majority of people who I've met who believes this do so, because it's easier than opening God's word and learning. "Humanly possible" meant something. It means however far we can do it, do it. This isn't an IQ test. It's getting to know God because he knows us and wants a two-way relationship with us.
In like kind, I've listened and asked for stories from hubby's family about him before I met him. I've seen the pictures. I've heard the good stories and bad stories. From him, I've heard them more then once. Will I ever know him complete? Of course not, but I like him so want to know him more.
Same idea with God.
So, not so much try to understand/know him as waiting for him? I'm not saying you're one of them, but the vast majority of people who I've met who believes this do so, because it's easier than opening God's word and learning. "Humanly possible" meant something. It means however far we can do it, do it. This isn't an IQ test. It's getting to know God because he knows us and wants a two-way relationship with us.
In like kind, I've listened and asked for stories from hubby's family about him before I met him. I've seen the pictures. I've heard the good stories and bad stories. From him, I've heard them more then once. Will I ever know him complete? Of course not, but I like him so want to know him more.
Same idea with God.
A
You know? You get very upset if you think anyone might even be possibly putting your church in negative light.
How about being of like kind when it comes to what others think of their churches? I'm very tired of your swipes at reformed. I know you don't like it, but is it necessary to laugh at anyone that might? I have four brothers. I can go there. I learned mock very well. I'm just trying not to. (Not always successfully, but I'm trying.) Mock is a family trait.
How about being of like kind when it comes to what others think of their churches? I'm very tired of your swipes at reformed. I know you don't like it, but is it necessary to laugh at anyone that might? I have four brothers. I can go there. I learned mock very well. I'm just trying not to. (Not always successfully, but I'm trying.) Mock is a family trait.
My mistake! It should have been "the Vineyard; the Pentecostal church.."
So a semi-colon separating two totally different churches. Although the Vineyard had really good music (Brian Doerkson's home church) and dancing and flag waving, which I had never seen in a Pentecostal Church. And very loud!
The Pentecostal church was the big one, and the pastors had no time to deal with the congregation! Just lip service to helping people!
So a semi-colon separating two totally different churches. Although the Vineyard had really good music (Brian Doerkson's home church) and dancing and flag waving, which I had never seen in a Pentecostal Church. And very loud!
The Pentecostal church was the big one, and the pastors had no time to deal with the congregation! Just lip service to helping people!
