Children of the LIGHT

Ariel82 · Aug 25, 2016

1 Peter: 4. 16. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18. And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19. Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

*****

That passage is written to encourage the saints to endure suffering for His name if it's God's will.....not meant to be an arrow condemning people who have not been made sinlessly perfect as you try and twist it to mean....makes me wonder if you know the meaning of certain other Bible verses.

MikeHenderson · Aug 25, 2016

1 John 1:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

We will sin! That is the nature of fallen men. The only time we will never sin is when we receive our new bodies in Heaven.

Does this then mean we can willingly sin? No. Does this mean you can practice at sinning? No.

Clearly God has said we will sin. But if we confess our sins He will forgive us of our sin. But then God has said when we believed on Jesus, the Blood of Jesus HAS cleansed us of all sins.

1 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Therefore when God says we are not to sin, i believe He is talking about us willingly sinning. Like telling a lie knowing it is a lie, or stealing a candy bar thinking its just one bar, or teaching a Doctrine that is false knowing that Doctrine is false.

Yes we will sin, this is a given, BUT we do not need to wallow in our sins! I believe this is the Heart of the issue.

prodigal · Aug 25, 2016

mark 10

20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”
21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard[b] to enter the Kingdom of God.25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”
26 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.
27 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God.”

Ariel82 · Aug 25, 2016

1 Corinthians: 15. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kosie · Aug 25, 2016

Prodigal, I just used the same words Paul used....Gal_1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Arrogance? Nope, just my way of saying, I want to be servant of Christ, not men. Sorry if it sound arrogant.

Ariel look at Saul, a sinner. Then God called him for His purpose, Paul repented, he NEVER killed or caught another Christ-man. Saul was sinner, and the chief of them, Paul was GOD-MAN and the chief of them among the gentiles.

The difference between Saul and Paul, was God HIMSELF. Saul had a sinning human spirit in him. Doing the things of the flesh and evil. Paul had the Holy Spirit of God in HIM. Doing the things of the Holy Spirit and God!

Here is the difference between a sinner and a saved man..... Jesus Christ.
No we will never be God, but we will be EXACTLY IN HIS IMAGE, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS and PERFECTION. That is what HE says not me.
God says this...Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ariel what will happen if a sinner does not repent from all his sins? Can he EVER put on a new man of righteousness and TRUE HOLINESS? NEVER!

prodigal · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Prodigal, I just used the same words Paul used....Gal_1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Arrogance? Nope, just my way of saying, I want to be servant of Christ, not men. Sorry if it sound arrogant.

Ariel look at Saul, a sinner. Then God called him for His purpose, Paul repented, he NEVER killed or caught another Christ-man. Saul was sinner, and the chief of them, Paul was GOD-MAN and the chief of them among the gentiles.

The difference between Saul and Paul, was God HIMSELF. Saul had a sinning human spirit in him. Doing the things of the flesh and evil. Paul had the Holy Spirit of God in HIM. Doing the things of the Holy Spirit and God!

Here is the difference between a sinner and a saved man..... Jesus Christ.
No we will never be God, but we will be EXACTLY IN HIS IMAGE, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS and PERFECTION. That is what HE says not me.
God says this...Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ariel what will happen if a sinner does not repent from all his sins? Can he EVER put on a new man of righteousness and TRUE HOLINESS? NEVER!

do you think that anyone here could teach you anything?

Kosie · Aug 25, 2016

Wow you keep me busy do you not. Ariel we should suffer for RIGHTEOUSNESS sake not because of sin. You cannot suffer for both at he same time. Same with serving the Lord, you can only serve one... God did not say you MAY NOT serve sin and Him, he said YOU CANNOT serve both. Mammon sin evil whatever.

Prodigal Jesus knew all about the man before he even called Jesus GOOD MASTER. Jesus knew he was one that will not enter into the kingdom, but a camel will easier pass through the eye of a needle.

Just as Jesus knew the manner of spirit from which his disciples came when they wanted to torch a city in Samaria. Jesus knew every time who He was talking too and he saw their hearts.

Kosie · Aug 25, 2016

Prodigal, the Lord does EVERY DAY. He said the Holy Spirit would come and teach us EVERYTHING. I am far from that!
Remember how Jesus said to his disciples... There are many things I still want to teach you, but you CANNOT bear it YET! They did not have the capacity YET. Do we have that capacity? I believe so, God makes it possible for us, because HE REVEALED ALL hidden things now!

Ariel82 · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie, what of those things people do that are sins but God has not yet convicted them of?

You say never, but nothing is impossible with God.

God demands a humble and contrite heart, not one that knows and repents of ALL his sins. The Holy Spirit teaches people what is right and wrong. What is sin and what is God's ways. Yet you teach people must be sinless. You imply if you are not sinless, then you don't have the Holy Spirit at all. You reject any god that does not play by your rules and have taken scriptures out of context to support the false doctrine of sinless perfection.

God gives His children the tools to grow up and be mature and perfect in Him. However He does not demand they clean themselves up and be sinless before going to Him. He washes them clean but he does not make them automatically sinless anymore than he forces a baby to be an adult in a day. He walks with us as we grow, as we learn to us our spiritual gifts, as we pray, as we fellowship and learn to work with other believers.

However Satan comes as a fake angel of light and tempts people's pride by telling them they are perfect already and anyone who disagrees is just not as blessed or righteous as that person.

It's like giving a ten year old money and saying how grown up they are and how they should show them around their house before robbing the house and kidnapping the kid.

Mature in Christ means grown up, able to discern good from evil, able to spot and reject false doctrines and stand upon the gospel truth:

Jesus came to save sinners. He died on the cross for our sins. We are washed clean by His blood. We are born again by His Holy Spirit. We are taught His ways by walking with Him daily.

FreeNChrist · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

For no unclean person hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words, for on these things come the wrath of God unto the children of disobedience and unbelief. Be no partakers with them, but walk as children of the light, in all goodness, righteousness and truth. (Eph 5)

It is very clear that the saints and unbelievers are not one group of people. Saints are pure and clean and walk as children of the light in all goodness and righteousness and truth. God says in 1 John 3…[SUP]7[/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. Clearly only saints do righteousness to the level of God. 1 Joh 3:1… [SUP]1[/SUP]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. One group are saints, and one group are sinners.

God does not call people his sons if they do not know Him, the world does not know Him. This love that is bestowed on His children is the power of God that makes an individual His child (all God’s children are children of obedience and faith). The world is not His children, the world does not even know His children because the world does not know Him. In fact the world will always hate Him and His children. John 15….[SUP]18[/SUP]If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. [SUP]19[/SUP]If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. I love this Truth and this message.

Jesus said this in John 17: [SUP]9[/SUP]I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Then Jesus says this: [SUP]20[/SUP]Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; And this is how God’s Word (His Truth) separates the saints from the sinners. Faith and obedience always come perfectly together in one Truth, in Christ. I can be one of this group if I believe the Truth and know Jesus. So many people say they know God and the one whom He sent, yet they will not agree with this message that is in His Truth.

The people that do the Truth and believes Him are not of this world. Joh 17: [SUP]16[/SUP]They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world….. It is the gift of Jesus that makes a person a beloved child of God…. [SUP]2[/SUP]As thou hast given him (Jesus) power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. [SUP]3[/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. The world does not know God and they do not have eternal life (holy life).

Can I know God and be one with Him and Jesus, and still sin? The Truth says: No! God’s Word says sinners are from the devil, like all the worldly people are from the devil. God says every one that is born of God, or born from above, cannot sin. 1Joh 3:9.[SUP] 9[/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Jesus was the example of the children God will make for Himself. The seed of God is the life of Christ in every holy person. The world is of the devil and they are not born from above: [SUP]8[/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 2Cor6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

If God delivers me from evil, can I still sin? I vote NO because He delivers me from evil to Jesus!

So many sinners use 1 Joh 1:10 (If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar)… as their main reference point to argue no one is without sin, but 1 John 1 also teaches we are liars if we sin (walk in darkness) and say we have fellowship with Jesus (The Light). Maybe the answer is in the Word, I thank God it is, and He is still the one that can deliver us from evil!

It's about identity, not behavior.

Ariel82 · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Wow you keep me busy do you not. Ariel we should suffer for RIGHTEOUSNESS sake not because of sin. You cannot suffer for both at he same time. Same with serving the Lord, you can only serve one... God did not say you MAY NOT serve sin and Him, he said YOU CANNOT serve both. Mammon sin evil whatever.

Prodigal Jesus knew all about the man before he even called Jesus GOOD MASTER. Jesus knew he was one that will not enter into the kingdom, but a camel will easier pass through the eye of a needle.

Just as Jesus knew the manner of spirit from which his disciples came when they wanted to torch a city in Samaria. Jesus knew every time who He was talking too and he saw their hearts.

Jesus never said that man was one who would not enter the kingdom....many believe he was the rich man (joseph) who gave up his tomb to bury Jesus.

Anyway, have to go.

bikerchaz · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Bikerchaz I do my friend. But look at the process in the three verses. It is the Process of God's Salvation. Please lets try to come to an agreement with God and HIS WORD.

Let us do the few verses of 1 John 1 as we would with Jesus in our midst.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Note John says that we may have fellowship with them,
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
God is light in in Him is no darkness at all. If I go in and there is darkness in me, then God has darkness in Him, I BROUGHT IT IN.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Clearly I cannot do sin and have fellowship with him.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Take note, from ALL SIN (Noe can anyone say he does not need this cleansing? NOPE! So can I say I have no sin to be cleansed of? NOPE!
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Ok! Then I confess my sins, he will forgive me (grace starts) but he will cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness(Grace part two) And there is a third part to grace. the GLORIFICATION PART) Where God makes me righteous as He is righteous.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Now God cleansed me and forgave me, but He does not stop there, he now gives me HIS SPIRIT and HIS HEART to live like He wanted too even before the earth was formed. Holy and Perfect, His will. God now CAUSE me to be perfect in His will.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Can I as holy and perfect man EVER say I have not sinned? NEVER! God took me as sinner and made the NEW CREATION. Sin is as far removed from me as the East is of the West, but GOD DID IT. I was a rotten sinner. But God wants me to be ONE WITH HIM and have FELLOWSHIP with Him walking no more in darkness. And the only way I will REMAIN IN THE LIGHT, is if God give me two new things.,... To control and drive the flesh that once SINNED!

God has to make me ONE WITH HIM... He gives me HIS HEART and HIS SPIRIT. And as Jesus asked the Father to do... make all these people PERFECTLY ONE!

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

God will CAUSE ME TO WALK IN HIS LIGHT. WOW what an Awesome God HE is! Thank You Lord, may you also do this for Kosie. Please Lord AMEN!

From what you have put here we are not in disagreement, you say as I have posted.

Within myself I find this a daily thing to do, even an hourly thing, in some way. Being with Jesus is living in the light as you said. I feel it is 'being' light and in this situation I find the darkness within me shrinks. I/we pick up our cross daily, we have to do it this way because Jesus said so.

When we leave this life either through death or Jesus return, and our being with Him is finalised, then we will be truly without sin, we will have immortality put on us, and this sinful nature we inhabit now will be incorruptible and in this state of being we will live forever with Jesus.

Yes, what an awesome God we have!

garee · Aug 25, 2016

p_rehbein said:

The Apostles do not perfect the saints .That is a work of God. The apostles are sent with the gospel, it does all of the perfecting if any is done..

As long as Paul remained in a body of death he sinned.. The if we this or if we that is speaking to the believer.Not someone who knows not Christ.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1Jo 1:7

Kosie · Aug 25, 2016

Arial, thank you for your lovely spirit, and the good conversations. My dear friend, do you think God will have us crucify our old selves until we are DEAD, and then he makes us alive to go sin again? NEVER! It is like the seed. It has to DIE DEAD before it can bear fruit.

And here is the thing Arial, about the fruit... ANY tree only bears bad fruit or GOOD fruit. NOT BOTH. The old tree that died was the tree of bad fruit, the NEW TREE God will put NEW LIFE into is the tree of GOOD FRUIT. That is what he does. If He turns water into wine, he turns sinners into holy men. When I see God calling people HOLY MEN OF GOD, I would not hesitate one moment that those people are truly HOLY! And Holy for me is SINLESS! Hagios in Greek. meaning most holy! as if Holiness has a degree. Is it not 100% or 0%? You are holy or you are not. I am NOT! But it is my hearts desire to be, and I cannot make myself holy, so I can only hope God would. Look at what God said here...
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

prodigal · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Prodigal, the Lord does EVERY DAY. He said the Holy Spirit would come and teach us EVERYTHING. I am far from that!
Remember how Jesus said to his disciples... There are many things I still want to teach you, but you CANNOT bear it YET! They did not have the capacity YET. Do we have that capacity? I believe so, God makes it possible for us, because HE REVEALED ALL hidden things now!

i'll ask again are you here to learn anything, or just to teach??

Adstar · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

My Lord Jesus saves me through the atonement he secured for me by His Work... Yes he saves me completely if i remain believing Him and trusting in the atonement He secured for me.. See i am willing to answer your questions, to share the thoughts i have with you, will you answer mine?

? i do not understand what you are saying here.. You say nothing? confused..

So i see you said "I will gladly accept" as in future tense.. So does that mean you are still sinning?

Yes i have met a few on this forum and on other forums and Christian chant rooms and they preach that if you are saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit will cause you to be sinless in your current carnal flesh body.. And i always ask them the same type of straight forward question, same type of question i asked you.. """""So you are saying that one is not a saved if one commits sin... """" and """"So then the question must be asked by your own standards of sinlessness are you saved?"""" So by your teaching i expect you to answer ,,, Yes Adstar i am indwelled by the Holy Spirit and ever since that indwelling the Holy Spirit has prevented me from committing sin,, i now live a sinless perfect life. i never sin in thought or deeds and i always do what is right when there is a need to do a good work or deed,,,, But you see i never get a response like that from people who preach what you preach.. They always point me back to their scriptures and say something like your saying.. They dodge the question.. Seems to me they dodge the question because they don't want to say they are sinless and as such sin by telling a lie.. And they don't want to acknowledge that by their very own preaching they fall short of their very own preaching, because if their preaching is true then they themselves are not saved because they still sin and thus they are not indwelled by the Holy Spirit..

So once again i will ask you.. Has it happened to you? Are you living a sinless life Kosie? All it should take is a one word answer Yes or No...

God ""demands it""? Think for a moment Kosie.. Why would God Demand something He Himself ""CAUSES"" to happen by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit???? It is supposedly His doing Right? God causes us to become Sinless Right? It is all His doing Right? We cannot do it surely.... So why would God demand of us something You believe He achieves in us?

Also The Word of God is the Word of God... people interpret the word of God and then they take that interpretation and declare it to be the Word of God.. So do you know your interpretation of the Word of God is guided by God himself?.

I am assured it is going to happen Kosie.. 100% upon the day of the resurrection when my carnal body of sin will be cast away and i will be transformed into that sinless perfect eternal being i desire to be.. See you and i believe that God will cause us to be sinless beings.. The difference seems to be in the timing.. You think it is for the here and now.. And if that is so then you should be a sinless human being in the here and now.. But you are dodging that question.. Your not answering me..

If it was Gods will for us to be sinless in the here and now and it was by the power of the holy Spirit that he would cause us to live a sinless life then you and I would be living a sinless life on earth right now Kosie.. Not i will be honest and answer my own question.. No i am not living a sinless life.. See it is an easy question to answer..

Kosie · Aug 25, 2016

garee look at the process of salvation in the three verses of 1 John 1:8 to 10.

Sinner needs washing, and no one can say he does not need washing.... 1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Sinner confess his sins and Jesus does something about it. He forgives, and HE CLEANSE FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Cleaned sinner will be SEALED in CHRIST to NEVER sin again. So if a person asked if the saved sinner ever sinned he cannot lie... Look SINNED (past tense) 1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Saved sinner do not sin no more, but they did sin before they were saved.

If you read Scriptures you will see these three steps of Salvation right through the gospels.

garee · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Yes, become new as in becoming or working towards.

We have a new heart and eternal spirit that could never die . But we have not received the last of the promise ...our new incorruptible bodies .As long as we live in these bodies of death mercy through the grace of God is that which works in us to sustain us as Christians .Mercy always triumphs over judgement . Christ is our confidence,our living hope, we are to put no confidence in the flesh as walking by sight. We continue to trust the unseen .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Ariel82 · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

You don't seem to understand imputed righteousness of Christ and how it's His holiness that we are clothed in.

We will never be perfect or holy by our own works. Only by our faith in the FINISHED work of Christ upon the cross can we be saved.

You have stated unholy people get thrown in hell....

Is your faith in Christ's work on the cross or that God will make you perfectly sinless?

Adstar · Aug 25, 2016

Kosie said:

Oh No no no no no Kosie you cannot have it both ways.. You cannot say you believe God causes you to be sinless and declare that to be the infallible word of God and then turn around and say... well if a person like me sins then it's still alright because i still have hope for as long as i live...I sin much. Either your stated doctrine is true and you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit and you are sinless, or your doctrine is not true and you are confused, or we are not saved and the holy Spirit does not dwell in us..

""Purify myself"" What?.... No no Kosie we do not purify ourselves.. How can we purify ourselves with our own filthy rags.. You know all our righteousness are as filthy rags to God right? I believe that God will cause us to be sinless beings when He wills to do so and i believe He wills to do so after the resurrection..

We are deemed pure and Holy.. Not because we are living sinless lives but because we have HOPE in the atonement of the Blood of Jesus to cleanse us upon the day of resurrection.. Indeed it can be said we are already deemed Holy in spirit because we do believe Jesus and trust in his atonement... Now if we where made Holy in this flesh in this physical life why would we need to have Hope for it... We would already posses it.. I do not hope for something i already have.. We hope for something we shall receive in the future..

If God truly willed that Kosie then He could just say the Word right here right now and it would be so.. You and i would be sinless immediately.. God is all powerful. He is Awesome. He is not a God who needs to struggle and sweat and labor to cause a person to be sinless.. Just a thought.. He speaks something and it happens.. Bang...

God hates sin.. He loathes it.. If His will was to eliminate it in us in this life He would do it in an instant.. By His Power..

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