Christ takes you to heaven on one confession

[MadebyHim]

Only if confession is sincere and not just lip service. Any body can confess with lip service, seen it done many times. When someone needs a bill payed, food, using the Almighty as if He is a vending machine, a get out of jail free card, and so on. God will not be mocked without a penalty being placed on mocker.


[SUP]20 [/SUP]But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will. Daniel 5:20-21


[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the writing that was written, Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]This is the interpretation of the thing: Mene; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Tekel; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Peres; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. Daniel 5:24-28

i have been hearing the phrase, writing on the wall used a lot lately, it is still being used as a warning phrase today.

 

[Ariel82]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works salvationists to ACCEPT.

Do you believe God can change people's hearts or do you always treat people based on who they were in the past?

You never know how God works in peoples lives. Slapping old labels on people doesn't show heavenly wisdom, but ignorance and unbelief in the power of change that happens when the Holy Spirit moves in others lives.

I wonder when people will get tired of living in their ignorance, pride and unbelief of how God can change people's lives. When will people stop throwing stones and start praying and actually listening to what another person is saying. Instead of listening only to voices that agree with their preconceived prejudices?

There are doctrines Peter and I don't agree upon and I don't like how he labels people, but I see God working in his heart and life. Can you say the same?

I expected more from many of the posters in this thread.

It goes along wonderfully as everyone shares the gospel message.

Then Peter does something strange, that people don't understand. Someone misunderstands and gives him evil motives....then lots of people jump on the bandwagon. Before you know it, he is called a works salvationist and y'all have a scarecrow to burn.

Its sad.

I challenge people who are offended by me telling you that you have acted out of ignorance, pride and unbelief.....watch the video, does it support works salvation?

 

[Ariel82]

Here is a real evangelistic summary of the gospel.


[video=youtube;uKi2k6x7tuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKi2k6x7tuw[/video]

Does this video support your accusation that Peter believes in works salvation or do you need to examine your own hearts and repent?

 

[Ariel82]

Or will you just make excuses and justify yourself?

If you want excuses, here are some easy ones: he called me bad names..,,, he should have been cleared about his beliefs, it's his fault we attacked him.....he believes you can lose your salvation, so he is a works salvationist because you have to work to keep it, so he doesn't really believe the video.

The last one I believe God is showing him what eternal security truly means and I find that belief in many Christians who need more time walking with the Holy Spirit and faith and knowledge of God and His promises.

Also its is about sanctification and maturity in Christ.

How can people hope to teach marurity, when they don't display it?

And yes, I know. I am an immature brat lecturing her "elders".

My only redeeming quality is that I am God's immature brat who He loves and has cleansed by His blood. He is teaching me what it means to be mature.

He tells me His wisdom is impartial, true, kind, patient, gentle and willing to bend.

He teaches me that humility allows for His love, grace and healing to flow from me into the lives of those around me and how my pride hurts myself and others.

I only speak because part of me jumped to the same conclusions and gave the same excuses to dismiss Peter, but God placed in my heart the desire to look a second time, dig a little deeper and pray.

I got the impression, if I watched, I would see God do something wonderful in Peters life.

Yeah this is me watching, I am not very good at the quiet part.

 

[Grace777x70]

I watched the video and liked it except it had the end goal of the gospel wrong. It is not to be in heaven forever as a spirit. We have the redemption of our physical bodies as the end result of Christ being in us. But being saved by grace through faith in Christ's work as the video says is dead on.

I don't believe that saying works-based salvationists will not accept that we live by grace through faith in what Christ has done has anything to do with the video. If people "identity" as being a works-based salvationists - then I can see how they would be offended by the term.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?


If we think that we are righteous by what we do and not because of Christ's righteousness alone - then that is indicative a works-based belief system. ( There are fruits of His righteousness but they do not create righteousness )

I believe that works-based belief mindset have a zeal for the things of God but they are without the knowledge of the work of Christ yet. and thus need to create and maintain their own righteousness.

Unfortunately this is the basis of a works-based salvationists. and it nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to do - we cut ourselves from Christ's work being effective in our lives.

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2[/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

The real gospel message is the receiving as a gift the righteousness of God in Christ.

The gospel is the righteousness of God revealed - not the creating and maintaining of our own righteousness. That is a different gospel as Paul says. It is a works-righteousness belief system - not a faith-righteousness belief system which is based on Christ's work alone.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

 

[mailmandan]

Do you believe God can change people's hearts or do you always treat people based on who they were in the past?

God can absolutely change people's hearts, as He did mine. Who said I was treating people based on who they were in the past?

You never know how God works in peoples lives. Slapping old labels on people doesn't show heavenly wisdom, but ignorance and unbelief in the power of change that happens when the Holy Spirit moves in others lives.

I was simply responding to the post made by dcontroversal and was simply making the point about salvation by grace through faith not being hard to understand, just hard to ACCEPT by works salvationists, those who believe we are saved by works. Been there, done that. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, it was certainly hard for me to ACCEPT, but eventually I did accept the gospel truth. How do you come up with ignorance and unbelief in that?

I wonder when people will get tired of living in their ignorance, pride and unbelief of how God can change people's lives. When will people stop throwing stones and start praying and actually listening to what another person is saying. Instead of listening only to voices that agree with their preconceived prejudices?

That sounds harsh. It sounds like you are taking what I said and blowing it way out of proportion. I listen to people who are living in ignorance, pride and unbelief all the time, but I know that God can change their lives, if they choose Him.

There are doctrines Peter and I don't agree upon and I don't like how he labels people, but I see God working in his heart and life. Can you say the same?

I expected more from many of the posters in this thread.

I was responding to a post in regards to simplicity and faith. My comments were about works salvationists in general.

It goes along wonderfully as everyone shares the gospel message.

I've shared the gospel many times on CC and have been attacked by works salvationists (in general).

Then Peter does something strange, that people don't understand. Someone misunderstands and gives him evil motives....then lots of people jump on the bandwagon. Before you know it, he is called a works salvationist and y'all have a scarecrow to burn.

I was addressing works salvationists IN GENERAL not picking on Peter.

Its sad.

I challenge people who are offended by me telling you that you have acted out of ignorance, pride and unbelief.....watch the video, does it support works salvation?

What's sad is being misunderstood and falsely accused.

 

[preacher4truth]

Does this video support your accusation that Peter believes in works salvation or do you need to examine your own hearts and repent?

Um, the video doesn't represent peters false gospel, sorry. He is against those who have prayed and received Christ, which is where the video leaves it, a one time confession unto salvation. His thread on that shows he does not believe this video.

Get your facts straight Ariel. There are many times you come into a thread, accuse others, tell them their Gospel is false, and defend the likes of Osteen and PeterJens false gospel and make false accusations. You did this in this thread and another yesterday.

Yes, PeterJens preaches a works gospel, it isn't anything like that in the video. Go re-read his threads and his mockery of the video in its presentation of one time receiving of Christ. It's apparent you don't even know what he preaches since you're misrepresenting him here.

In addition, he makes it a practice of calling others lost. Again, get your facts straight for once.

 

[Ariel82]

I belief that God develops godliness and a righteousness that belongs to individual people after having made them born again, which could be labeled as either "self righteousness" or "the fruits of Christ's righteousness working in our lives"

I would not label that belief as "works salvation" because it acknowledges that God produces that righteousness within us and it is for His glory, not our own,

Gtg to church.

Hopefully this thread will show Heavenly wisdom and not earthly bickering when I get back to read responses...
.

 

[Ariel82]

Um, the video doesn't represent peters false gospel, sorry. He is against those who have prayed and received Christ, which is where the video leaves it, a one time confession unto salvation. His thread on that shows he does not believe this video.

Get your facts straight Ariel. There are many times you come into a thread, accuse others, tell them their Gospel is false, and defend the likes of Osteen and PeterJens false gospel and make false accusations. You did this in this thread and another yesterday.

Yes, PeterJens preaches a works gospel, it isn't anything like that in the video. Go re-read his threads and his mockery of the video in its presentation of one time receiving of Christ. It's apparent you don't even know what he preaches since you're misrepresenting him here.

In addition, he makes it a practice of calling others lost. Again, get your facts straight for once.

Show me one post where I have accuse you of teaching a false gospel.

My only accusation of you is that you are too busy accusing others to present a gospel at all.

Get your facts straight and say...do you agree or disagree with the video?

Can you answer that question without making accusations?

 

[Ariel82]

God can absolutely change people's hearts, as He did mine. Who said I was treating people based on who they were in the past?

I was simply responding to the post made by dcontroversal and was simply making the point about salvation by grace through faith not being hard to understand, just hard to ACCEPT by works salvationists, those who believe we are saved by works. Been there, done that. Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, it was certainly hard for me to ACCEPT, but eventually I did accept the gospel truth. How do you come up with ignorance and unbelief in that?

That sounds harsh. It sounds like you are taking what I said and blowing it way out of proportion. I listen to people who are living in ignorance, pride and unbelief all the time, but I know that God can change their lives, if they choose Him.

I was responding to a post in regards to simplicity and faith. My comments were about works salvationists in general.

I've shared the gospel many times on CC and have been attacked by works salvationists (in general).

I was addressing works salvationists IN GENERAL not picking on Peter.

What's sad is being misunderstood and falsely accused.

Sorry mailman. Just fuel to the fire. Probably should have address dcon or p4t.

But you are easier to talk to.

Mainly because I knew you would reapond, instead of react in anger and pride.

 

[preacher4truth]

Show me one post where I have accuse you of teaching a false gospel.

My only accusation of you is that you are too busy accusing others to present a gospel at all.

Get your facts straight and say...do you agree or disagree with the video?

Can you answer that question without making accusations?

Um, right here, in your lying response:

Your video was rebuking Joel for not proclaiming the gospel.

I was pointing out that the same rebuke could be applied to you, because you don't proclaim the gospel either.

Have fun with your witch hunting,but by all means avoid mirrors or you might actually see or hurt yourself.

As you witch hunt yourself.

There it is, a slam on the Gospel I preach, that's how you act, on a witch hunt yourself.

I responded that my post wasn't on an objective to give an exhaustive on the Gospel - but, as you are, you went on the attack against Scriptures mandate to rebuke false teachers. It is noted you think it's your job to do so, but no one else's, hence all your bickering and false representations of others.

Then this as my response to your misuse of Romans 2, where you are in fact preaching a works Gospel by claiming Romans 2:14 is talking about how to be saved. It is not, it is showing the impossibility of this, than none can do it, and that aall are guilty, and Romans 3 proves no one is in Romans 2, able to do those things. Thus Romans 3 comes in to slam the door shut on the works gospel that you preach. So, in essence, you, as well as PeterJens preach a works Gospel. However, you've done it ignorantly as far as I can tell by misusing and not understanding the intent of Romans 2:

Um, Paul is showing in chapter 2 of Romans that no one does those things, and does away with anyone being able to or being good in chapter 3, and then concludes all are lost, Jew and Gentile.

That being said you're misapplying Scripture. Learn some 2 Timothy 2:15.

You are preaching in essence by misapplying this passage is saying people can get to heaven on their own merit. Clearly you don't understand Paul's argument in Romans 2.

You need to get your facts straight Ariel. Peterjens doesn't preach the Gospel in your video, and that is clearly seen in this thread. It's apparent you either haven't watched the video and/or you just simply don't know what you're talking about and are just talking nonsense.

You can get your last word in, you'll never believe your error, or his, when it is plainly seen.

 

[Ariel82]

Um, right here, in your lying response:



As you witch hunt yourself.

There it is, a slam on the Gospel I preach, that's how you act, on a witch hunt yourself.

I responded that my post wasn't on an objective to give an exhaustive on the Gospel - but, as you are, you went on the attack against Scriptures mandate to rebuke false teachers. It is noted you think it's your job to do so, but no one else's, hence all your bickering and false representations of others.

Then this as my response to your misuse of Romans 2, where you are in fact preaching a works Gospel by claiming Romans 2:14 is talking about how to be saved. It is not, it is showing the impossibility of this, than none can do it, and that aall are guilty, and Romans 3 proves no one is in Romans 2, able to do those things. Thus Romans 3 comes in to slam the door shut on the works gospel that you preach. So, in essence, you, as well as PeterJens preach a works Gospel. However, you've done it ignorantly as far as I can tell by misusing and not understanding the intent of Romans 2:



You need to get your facts straight Ariel. Peterjens doesn't preach the Gospel in your video, and that is clearly seen in this thread. It's apparent you either haven't watched the video and/or you just simply don't know what you're talking about and are just talking nonsense.

You can get your last word in, you'll never believe your error, or his, when it is plainly seen.

Someone help me here....where in this post do you see the gospel taught?

My statement was that one should not be so busy witch hunting that the gospel never truly and clearly gets preached.

True or false: does that video clearly lay out the true gospel?

You see, take away your accusations of me and Peter and I still don't see the answer to what Gospel you believe in or if you agree or disagree with the video.

Call me dense, but a "yes I like the video" or "no I believe the video is false" would help...

Notice I don't really care about getting the last word: reason why i haven't visited your thread. But obvious you feel neglected since you drag that conversation into this thread.

 

[dcontroversal]

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works salvationists to ACCEPT.

Oh I fully agree......blinded by a lack of faith and trust into self......the Pharisees had the same issue, as do all who place more value on religion and self saving works.....

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The Holy Spirit conviction of sin and true repentance and being born again….

It is amazing how little conviction of sin has been mentioned.
It is like sin is not an issue that comes to mind yet it is the most common
issue in church. Maybe something is missing in the contributors?

Why are they so slow? Have they arrived and the whole world is saved or
maybe so defeated why talk about the victor!

Maybe they actually do not believe at all in the sense I know.
It sometimes feels like wolves are prowling to destroy anyone
who might get close. The antagonism is puzzling if the same love
dwells within us all.

Ariel82’s response about Holy Spirit conviction was posted in reply to your post #15 about Gengis Khan and what stops a person from doing what they have always done after they are born again.


And I agree with Ariel82 that once we are born again, the conviction of the HS is so much stronger than before we are born again.


Before we are born again, we have only our own conscience to convict us. And we can override our conscience very easily.


After we are born again, we still have our conscience to convict us. But we also have HS within, which is much more effective in keeping us on the right path.


So, nothing is missing in the contributors and no, they are not slow. I don’t think many contributors have addressed your post #15. Many contributors are responding to other posts made by you, as well as posts made by others. This is a discussion board and discussions are taking place.

 

[PeterJens]

Um, the video doesn't represent peters false gospel, sorry. He is against those who have prayed and received Christ, which is where the video leaves it, a one time confession unto salvation. His thread on that shows he does not believe this video.

Get your facts straight Ariel. There are many times you come into a thread, accuse others, tell them their Gospel is false, and defend the likes of Osteen and PeterJens false gospel and make false accusations. You did this in this thread and another yesterday.

Yes, PeterJens preaches a works gospel, it isn't anything like that in the video. Go re-read his threads and his mockery of the video in its presentation of one time receiving of Christ. It's apparent you don't even know what he preaches since you're misrepresenting him here.

In addition, he makes it a practice of calling others lost. Again, get your facts straight for once.

p4t - You claim to understand yet you do not.

Now I am making a simple point. I hope you will listen before jumping to conclusions
Confession is our response to Gods revelation, but the context is eveything.
Until we know a lot about God, it is like an advertising logo, sounds good but has little meaning.

It is like an engineer looking at the plans of a building and saying, yes that building is good, or
someone off the street looking at a diagram and saying, yes the building is good.

The words are the same, but the meaning is totally different. One is saying it is built well, will
meet the standards required, has the right elements, load bearing features, fire prevention,
air conditioning, light, electricity and supply etc to function well.

The guy on the street is saying the diagram looks cool. It is as valuable as a child going "dad
I want one."

So p4t are you listening or just judging and jumping to conclusions?
And why do you think I posted the introduction to faith in the first place?
Because confession alone is not enough.

 

[PeterJens]

This is a discussion board and discussions are taking place.

My point was simple. Without conviction of sin, we will never find God, and by continuing
in sin, we have not experienced His presence.

Maybe this reality is missing to you as well. Do you know how Genghis Khan behaved?
Behaviour in a brutal way was a major issue in his life. You could not come to God without
putting this on the table, I wonder how you missed it?

I think maybe people life nice middle class lives where everyone is just peachy.
Let me put it like a police torturer comes to faith and confess a belief in God but goes back
to work without batting an eyelid. Not Gods way at all.

Maybe you know the mafia films. You would also know their view to faith in the catholic
church, had the God side all sown up, but business, settling scores is just business, not
anything to do with God.

This is what happens when sin is not on the table, and repentance is not a part of meeting
the Lord. It makes sense when you are brought up in church and you are steeped in being
nice, but if you are totally immoral, it is just junk.

 

[PeterJens]

The responses here make me think.

Is what I believe what people say I believe or what I actually believe?
And do they care, if they hate me personally so badly, anything to slag me off is
their number 1 priority.

By the way to be compared to Joel Osteen, now that is a reach, as I do not believe
in the prosperity gospel, lol

 

[PeterJens]

Imagine if I was doing an evangelistic work, open airs who would I take with me.

Ariel - because she listens and is focused on the actual issues of coming to Christ.

My next question would be have any of you ever done street evangelism, handed out
tracts, or door to door work?

From your responses I would say no. You are probably only used to talking to believers
who understand a rich meaning behind your words. And within your group every word has
a particular and very special meaning, so anyone speaking outside this is very upsetting.

But this is the internet and you need to justify everything you put forward and you do not
know who will oppose you or why.

And I will always say strange stuff, because I want you to think, to explore, to question, to
know God is infinite and being in Him is an eternal adventure. Are you up for this or just your
cosy secure little circle of belief?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

My point was simple. Without conviction of sin, we will never find God, and by continuing
in sin, we have not experienced His presence.

I see it somewhat differently than you do. Unbelievers know there is something not quite right. They do not know what it is that is wrong but they know deep down that there is something missing.

What is missing is that relationship with God. There is a disconnect and people try all sorts of things to fulfill that emptiness inside.

So I would change your sentence from "without conviction of sin, we will never find God" to

"without knowledge of the savior from sin, we will never find God".

After "finding God" (or being born again), that is when the "conviction of sin" starts, as we then have HS within to help keep us on the right path.

Do you believe a person must confess his/her sins in order to be born again?

Or do you believe a person must confess Jesus Christ is Lord in his/her life to be born again?

Maybe this reality is missing to you as well. Do you know how Genghis Khan behaved?
Behaviour in a brutal way was a major issue in his life. You could not come to God without
putting this on the table, I wonder how you missed it?

I didn't miss it. Your Gengis Khan post was your fourth post in the thread. I hadn't even gotten past discussing your initial post.

I tried to find out what you meant by "confession of faith". I still don’t know because when I asked what your definition of "confession" was, you responded with "speaking words that are true from our hearts".

Whose truth are we to speak from our hearts in order to be born again? Are we to speak our own truth? Are we to speak the truth of some world philosophy? Sometimes the philosophers got it right, and sometimes they didn't. So whose "truth" are we to "confess" from our own hearts to become born again?

I believe we are to speak God's truth from our hearts. And in order to speak God's truth from our hearts, we must hear God's truth by way of someone preaching to us (because God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that are lost - 1 Cor 1:21).

I think maybe people life nice middle class lives where everyone is just peachy.
Let me put it like a police torturer comes to faith and confess a belief in God but goes back
to work without batting an eyelid. Not Gods way at all.

Maybe you know the mafia films. You would also know their view to faith in the catholic
church, had the God side all sown up, but business, settling scores is just business, not
anything to do with God.

There are people sitting in churches who believe going through the motions is enough. They go to church on Sunday and live like ^#(( Monday through Saturday.

Why are we so shocked at this behavior? Jesus Christ tells us in the parable of the tares that this is going to happen. He also says to let both tares and wheat grow together until the harvest, at which point the tares will be separated from the wheat.

This is what happens when sin is not on the table, and repentance is not a part of meeting
the Lord. It makes sense when you are brought up in church and you are steeped in being
nice, but if you are totally immoral, it is just junk.

Again, I would ask: In order for a person to be born again, does he/she need confess their sin?

Or does he/she confess our Savior from sin?

Once a person is born again, the sin issue can be dealt with. But we must be born again in order to deal with it. Until then, we are steeped in sin.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

My next question would be have any of you ever done street evangelism, handed out
tracts, or door to door work?

From your responses I would say no. You are probably only used to talking to believers
who understand a rich meaning behind your words. And within your group every word has
a particular and very special meaning, so anyone speaking outside this is very upsetting.

But this is the internet and you need to justify everything you put forward and you do not
know who will oppose you or why.

I have been involved in evangelism.

And, yes, it is important to make sure we understand the words being used by others and it is equally important to have others understand the words we are using.

Somewhat tedious in discussion in an online forum, but important in order to not jump to conclusions.

And I will always say strange stuff, because I want you to think, to explore, to question, to
know God is infinite and being in Him is an eternal adventure. Are you up for this or just your
cosy secure little circle of belief?

So you say "strange stuff" in an effort to get me to "think, to explore, to question"?

Why do you think it is your place to get me (or anyone else for that matter) to do those things? Are you at the place in your walk with the Lord that you do not need to "think, to explore, to question" what others say to you?

How about having discussions where we all speak the truth in love?

Can you imagine the joy it would bring to the heart of the Father to have His children use His Words to encourage rather than to discourage? to build up rather than tear down? to strengthen faith in those with whom we share the truth of God's Word?