Christmas Trees Are not Pagan
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L
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. I Sam. 16:7
I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds. Jeremiah 17:10
then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men I Kings 8:39
But You know me, O LORD; You see me; And You examine my heart's attitude toward You Drag them off like sheep for the slaughter And set them apart for a day of carnage! Jeremiah 12:3
Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart. Psalm 44:21
and I do believe there are more...
We are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. Can you find that, hero? If God commands us of that I think it's pretty safe to say that he knows our heart and looks upon it. The question is, is he going to say well done my good and faithful servant. For me the answer is yes, Christmas tree and all.
Ok, so if Christmas trees are bad...
what about when I wrap the entire outside of my house in multi-colored blinking lights?
Is that in the Bible too?
Is my blinking house a giant pagan idol that's causing my whole neighborhood to sin?
I could burn my house down, and get rid of it...
but that might be insurance fraud.
This is all getting so complicated.
what about when I wrap the entire outside of my house in multi-colored blinking lights?
Is that in the Bible too?
Is my blinking house a giant pagan idol that's causing my whole neighborhood to sin?
I could burn my house down, and get rid of it...
but that might be insurance fraud.
This is all getting so complicated.
D
Thank you, I appreciate you bringing scripture to the table, rather than opinion.
If we are honest with ourselves in saying that we have a heart for God, would we do something that he tells us not to do? If he tells us not to worship Him the way the pagans do, and then we go ahead and do that, is our heart honestly pure for Him? To you it might not seem like a big deal, but if our Heavenly Father says it's a big deal to Him, maybe we should care more about what He says than what we think. Just a thought.
I know people will do whatever they want to do anyways, but that's kind of my point. Maybe we need to be more concerned about what the Father thinks on these issues instead of what you or I think.
If we are honest with ourselves in saying that we have a heart for God, would we do something that he tells us not to do? If he tells us not to worship Him the way the pagans do, and then we go ahead and do that, is our heart honestly pure for Him? To you it might not seem like a big deal, but if our Heavenly Father says it's a big deal to Him, maybe we should care more about what He says than what we think. Just a thought.
I know people will do whatever they want to do anyways, but that's kind of my point. Maybe we need to be more concerned about what the Father thinks on these issues instead of what you or I think.
Brother Tintin, I know you love the old Testament so I will show you something and from there you can make up your own mind:
Exo 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
There were people from other nations (not only Egyptians) with Israel and the law dictate that they form part of Israel if they accept YHWH Elohim. Just like us today. That is why the Bible tells us there are no difference between Jew and Greek
Exo 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
There were people from other nations (not only Egyptians) with Israel and the law dictate that they form part of Israel if they accept YHWH Elohim. Just like us today. That is why the Bible tells us there are no difference between Jew and Greek
I'd like to state that at least one individual on this thread is an Armstrongite who believes that he will be a God in the resurrection ruling over the rest of mankind. Armstrongites believe they are basically the only ones God has enlightened with "the Truth" (meaning Herbert Armstrong's teachings) and that Christians are false believers who are blinded by Satan.
This gives some idea of the credibility of such individuals.
As I've said on other threads, much of their belief system comes from Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons which has long since been discredited. Again, I highly recommend Ralph Woodrow's books that dispel many of the bad teachings that these sorts of people continue to spread.
There are various "Church of God" groups that teach the same error. Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and Living Church of God are part of those groups. There are a large number of such groups, and Hebrew Roots Movement has been affected by them because some of the founders of Hebrew Roots are former Armstrongites.
They call themselves "Restorationists" which means that they claim to be a restoration of the "true Church" and basically consider Christianity to be a pagan substitute Satan leads. Common language in these groups is to call themselves "God's Church" and to infer that Christianity is "Satan's Church". The same underlying mentality is present within some of the Hebrew Roots Movement people.
I found as a former Armstrongite that the leader was taking funds meant for widows and orphans and spending the funds on things like a corporate jet at $16.5 million dollars. Jim Staley, a Hebrew Roots Movement teacher, bilked older people out of millions (I believe the figure is 65 million) and was imprisoned due to it. These antics remind me of Jesus' teachings about the scribes and Pharisees who "devoured widows' houses".
This gives some idea of the credibility of such individuals.
As I've said on other threads, much of their belief system comes from Alexander Hislop's Two Babylons which has long since been discredited. Again, I highly recommend Ralph Woodrow's books that dispel many of the bad teachings that these sorts of people continue to spread.
There are various "Church of God" groups that teach the same error. Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and Living Church of God are part of those groups. There are a large number of such groups, and Hebrew Roots Movement has been affected by them because some of the founders of Hebrew Roots are former Armstrongites.
They call themselves "Restorationists" which means that they claim to be a restoration of the "true Church" and basically consider Christianity to be a pagan substitute Satan leads. Common language in these groups is to call themselves "God's Church" and to infer that Christianity is "Satan's Church". The same underlying mentality is present within some of the Hebrew Roots Movement people.
I found as a former Armstrongite that the leader was taking funds meant for widows and orphans and spending the funds on things like a corporate jet at $16.5 million dollars. Jim Staley, a Hebrew Roots Movement teacher, bilked older people out of millions (I believe the figure is 65 million) and was imprisoned due to it. These antics remind me of Jesus' teachings about the scribes and Pharisees who "devoured widows' houses".
L
yeah
humans are such fickle and deceptive little creatures...they don't even know their own hearts!
how about David? the Bible says that David had a heart after God...but just mention Bathsheba and everybody gets quiet
I celebrate Christmas...I love the family time and all that goes with it
we had what my family referred to as the great Santa purge years ago...well, I call it that anyway...my mother one day, during the Christmas season, says that while she was praying, God said to her if you say Christmas is about Me, then why do you have that fat man in a red suit in your house..
so she 'purged' the joint...while my dad was at work and my brother and I were getting an education...in grade school at the time...the one that got me ticked off, was the Santa with the light in it she destroyed...cause it had been my dad's and was very old
so, I don't remember Santa and I think she had a point...but probably not everyone's point...
I think if someone thinks it's wrong to put up a tree and give gifts...whatever...for them it would be wrong if they go against their conscience...I don't think it is wrong...and I have spent many hours over the years, sitting in the living room, playing Christmas songs...thinking of God...of His gifts to us all and mostly of His Son...and that night so many years ago when the angels appeared to the shepherds
I don't talk about my spiritual experiences...hardly ever except in person, but I think it is ok to share this one...one night, driving home from some courses I was taking, I was on a long and very dark stretch of highway...it was the Christmas season
I began to hear what sounded like many voices singing and then I 'saw' thousands upon thousands of angels singing...I did not see them literally...but in my mind's eye...but it was so real and not my imagination and I could hear the singing
now I always kind of thought that only a few angels appeared to the shepherds...now, I know the sky was filled with them
and I looked up the passage in scripture where it describes what happened and my eyes were opened to what I had seen in my 'vision' but what I had not understood when reading the passage even though I had read it many times
listen:
8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”
do you see it?
Merry Christmas!
humans are such fickle and deceptive little creatures...they don't even know their own hearts!
how about David? the Bible says that David had a heart after God...but just mention Bathsheba and everybody gets quiet
I celebrate Christmas...I love the family time and all that goes with it
we had what my family referred to as the great Santa purge years ago...well, I call it that anyway...my mother one day, during the Christmas season, says that while she was praying, God said to her if you say Christmas is about Me, then why do you have that fat man in a red suit in your house..
so she 'purged' the joint...while my dad was at work and my brother and I were getting an education...in grade school at the time...the one that got me ticked off, was the Santa with the light in it she destroyed...cause it had been my dad's and was very old
so, I don't remember Santa and I think she had a point...but probably not everyone's point...
I think if someone thinks it's wrong to put up a tree and give gifts...whatever...for them it would be wrong if they go against their conscience...I don't think it is wrong...and I have spent many hours over the years, sitting in the living room, playing Christmas songs...thinking of God...of His gifts to us all and mostly of His Son...and that night so many years ago when the angels appeared to the shepherds
I don't talk about my spiritual experiences...hardly ever except in person, but I think it is ok to share this one...one night, driving home from some courses I was taking, I was on a long and very dark stretch of highway...it was the Christmas season
I began to hear what sounded like many voices singing and then I 'saw' thousands upon thousands of angels singing...I did not see them literally...but in my mind's eye...but it was so real and not my imagination and I could hear the singing
now I always kind of thought that only a few angels appeared to the shepherds...now, I know the sky was filled with them
and I looked up the passage in scripture where it describes what happened and my eyes were opened to what I had seen in my 'vision' but what I had not understood when reading the passage even though I had read it many times
listen:
8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified.
10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”
15 When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”
do you see it?
Merry Christmas!
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L
I play guitar....we would usually have Christmas family get together at my grandparents (mother's side...my dad was adopted)
my grandmother would sing in German...her native language...I would play the guitar and sing along and one of my aunts would also
it was beautiful and I can still see my grandmother looking at me and smiling....
[video=youtube;oUb8ySdERKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUb8ySdERKs[/video]
my grandmother would sing in German...her native language...I would play the guitar and sing along and one of my aunts would also
it was beautiful and I can still see my grandmother looking at me and smiling....
[video=youtube;oUb8ySdERKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUb8ySdERKs[/video]
