Church will Fall Away

notuptome · Oct 17, 2016

The church has abdicated her responsibility to disciple new believers in Gods word. Mom's and Dad's have given their children over to the colleges and universities to get good educations to get good jobs to earn a good living and have a pleasant life. What they got was college professors who hated the gospel stealing the faith from those who were compelled to sit in their classes and accept what they were taught to get passing grades to earn diplomas that were proclaimed to be the ticket to great success.

We've lost the next generation to the secular and allowed them to be robbed of the Spiritual. They want entertainment not Spiritual food. They have been baptized in the secular and engaged in all kinds of perversion while being told it's ok to experiment.

The church discarded Gods standards and lost Gods blessing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

breno785au · Oct 17, 2016

notuptome said:

The church has abdicated her responsibility to disciple new believers in Gods word. Mom's and Dad's have given their children over to the colleges and universities to get good educations to get good jobs to earn a good living and have a pleasant life. What they got was college professors who hated the gospel stealing the faith from those who were compelled to sit in their classes and accept what they were taught to get passing grades to earn diplomas that were proclaimed to be the ticket to great success.

We've lost the next generation to the secular and allowed them to be robbed of the Spiritual. They want entertainment not Spiritual food. They have been baptized in the secular and engaged in all kinds of perversion while being told it's ok to experiment.

The church discarded Gods standards and lost Gods blessing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sorry, too much of a blanket statement to be the truth. You cannot account for everybody.

eph610 · Oct 17, 2016

valiant said:

The falling away is talking about the church as is the love of many will grow cold....

Apostasy cannot happen in the world.....it can only happen to those who profess to be children of God...

What does the "true" church of Christ look like?....how did it get there?

notuptome · Oct 17, 2016

breno785au said:

I'm certain that you are the exception.

The earth is round. Too much of a blanket statement to be true. Does not account for the earth not being perfectly spherical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

PlainWord · Oct 17, 2016

Paul was both a Jew and a Christian. I always thought it was the Church but we can't rule out the moral decline and loss of faith in Israel. It wouldn't be the first time they were punished for losing the faith.

Test_F_i_2_Luv · Oct 17, 2016

PlainWord said:

they will be labeled as bigots...bigots, "homophobes", racists, fear-mongers, hate-mongers, right-wing extremists, ult-right.

they will be labeled as against women's right to choose Need to remind those types of people that we're for everyone's choice, so long as that choice doesn't hurt another person. What we oppose is abortion on demand, or dismemberment on demand(as I sometimes call it). It's going to irritate liberals to oppose their sacrament, though.

They are afraid to speak Speaking up results in all the name calling mentioned above(and those are the more mild words!), being sued, threatened with bodily harm, vandalism, getting fired from one's job, "sensitivity training" classes, etc.

breno785au · Oct 17, 2016

notuptome said:

Haha the Earth is flat for some..but we have documented evidence that it is a globe but that's another subject in itself that is heavily debated around here.

miknik5 · Oct 17, 2016

Plainword. Your thread title says it

theres a difference between the church and THE CHURCH. And the latter will not fall away.

CharlieGrown · Oct 17, 2016

breno785au said:

Guys, you know what a hot button topic the shape of the earth is, please let's just ignore it. That's always the best route to take.

mpaper345 · Oct 17, 2016

PlainWord said:

The Church will never fall,never be hypocritical,never be shaken,never be moved,never be corrupted,never ever ever.

Jesus said the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.

Jesus said the hypocrites do not belong to Him.

The falling away is not the Church that falls away,but will be the time that the world will not accept the truth of the Bible,but an alternate interpretation of the Bible,and Christianity will decline in impacting the world,that will lead to the beast kingdom,where the man of sin claims to have harnessed the power of nature,and achieved power,and the second beast does miracles to convince the world that the first beast did achieve power,and shared this power with the second beast,so he has the power to establish his kingdom,and no foe can stop him,which the world says who is able to make war with him.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

A false interpretation based on the exaltation of people through the power of nature,and Jesus is not the Savior,but an ascended Master,and Avatar.

Forbid to marry,population reduction in blessed mother earth.Command to abstain from meats,nature worship,reverence of animals.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

This interpretation will become popular unifying the religions,with a false interpretation of Christianity,Islam,and Judaism,and all are valid for spiritual evolution,and since all are compatible the saints will decline in impacting the world with the truth,for they will say,get up out of my face,for I am as valid as you,and Jesus is not the only way,and He is not the Savior,but a great teacher for spiritual enlightenment,as well as other teachers,although they will look at Jesus as a great teacher,perhaps the best,but not the Savior of the world.

That is the falling away first,strike one,which will lead to the beast kingdom,and the man of sin claiming to be God,and when they take the mark,strike two,then they make war against the saints,and when they scatter the power of the holy people,strike three,you're out,then cometh the end,when the Son shall deliver the kingdom up to the Father.

eph610 · Oct 18, 2016

mpaper345 said:

How does the world fall away from the world? The world never has believed in or accepted the truth of the Bible....

Jesus himself said when he returns will he find faith in the world...

The questions remain...What Church will prevail and what does that look like today...

The word Church used in Matthew 16 is not a building with 4 walls....It is a compound Greek word that means, those invited/ called out to worship....

Many scholars suggest the Gates of Hell Jesus was talking about are the Gates to the city of Caesarea Philippi that were at the base of a mountain. Caesarea Philippi was the Las Vegas of its day.....continuing with this line of thought is that Jesus was telling them that the Gates of Caesarea Philippi will not prevail against the disciples, where were called out by Christ to worship him and be taught by him[they were the church he was talking about, probably not what we think of as a modern day church]....and it never did...Caesarea Philippi became converted after Pentecost....

Matthew must be interpreted in light to who it was written to...namely the Jews....we can take its truths and apply them to us today....the church as whole will be shaken, because Hebrews 12 states so....

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 18, 2016

Come and see--->>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/136828-seducing-spirits-doctrines-devils.html

Bladerunner · Oct 18, 2016

PlainWord said:

Plainword: you need to read up on Rev. chapters 2 & 3 (the letters to the seven churches) These were actual churches during this time, but their activities are in line with what a lot of Denominations are doing now. Keep in mind that in Jesus's mind the Church is the the individual persons who believe in him. The "Church of Christ", the main one believes that thay are his church and if you are not a member then you will go to hell.

The falling away (apostasy) is what is happening and very few people will be Raptured. In fact, in some circles it is said there will be more Saints within the tribulation period than those raised by the Rapture.

Bladerunner · Oct 18, 2016

Addendum to post #33.

1 Corinthians 15:1 -4

"1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

All people who do not believe in the above gospel (the Gospel of Jesus Christ) will die during the tribulations.

eph610 · Oct 18, 2016

Bladerunner said:

Plainword: you need to read up on Rev. chapters 2 & 3 (the letters to the seven churches) These were actual churches during this time, but their activities are in line with what a lot of Denominations are doing now. Keep in mind that in Jesus's mind the Church is the the individual persons who believe in him. The "Church of Christ", the main one believes that thay are his church and if you are not a member then you will go to hell.

The falling away (apostasy) is what is happening and very few people will be Raptured. In fact, in some circles it is said there will be more Saints within the tribulation period than those raised by the Rapture.

If you read and understand Rev 2 & 3 you would not be caught up in rapture theology...

Bladerunner · Oct 18, 2016

eph610 said:

OH......that is news I have not heard,,,I guess the word "understand" is the key word.

Do you care to elaborate further?

eph610 · Oct 18, 2016

Bladerunner said:

check out those who overcome.....

Ahwatukee · Oct 18, 2016

eph610 said:

Hello eph610,

What would the letters to the seven churches have to do with the church not being gathered? Rev.1:19 is the key to understanding the order of events in Revelation. In Rev.1:19, Jesus told John to write what he had seen, what is now and what will take place later.

What you have seen:
Everything written from Rev.1:19 back to the beginning of revelation, which includes John's vision of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and John's vision of the glorified Christ.

What is now:
The what is now, is represented by the letters to the seven churches, which not only represents those seven churches as types, by the entire church period. We are currently living in the "Now" and that because the church is still being built. Once the church is completed and gathered, that will be the end of "what is now."

What will take place later:
This will be the time period after "what is now" i.e. after the church period. The time during which God's wrath will be poured out upon the earth. When John hears that voice that sounds like a trumpet saying "come up here!" That is prophetic of the church being caught up. That voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with "the trumpet call of God" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 where the church is resurrected, changed and caught up.

If you will take notice, from Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the word "ekklesia" translated "church" is used throughout those chapters. Within those same chapters the word "Hagios" translated as "saints" is never used. From chapter 4 onward, during the time of "what will take place later" the word church is never seen again, but only the word Hagios/saints is used to describe a believer and that beginning at Rev.5:8. This is significant in that, since the Holy Spirit stopped using the word ekklesia/church demonstrates that the church is no longer present on the earth during the description of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. If both the words church and saint were used interchangeably throughout the entire book of Revelation, then it would not be an issue, but since a distinction has been made between the two, it is relevant.

We are introduced to who these saints are in Rev.7:9-17, which is that group which no man could count wearing white robes from every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentile believers). John had previously been told to write letters to the seven churches. Now, the elder is asking John who these in white robes are and where they came from. That the elder is even asking John this question demonstrates that this group is not the church. In further support of the this, John doesn't know who they are. The elder then tells John that these are those who have come out of the great tribulation, ergo, great tribulation saints. It is this group that is in view throughout the narrative of God's wrath. It is this group that the beast is given authority to make war against and conquer, as seen in Rev.13.

What about Israel? Rev.12 states that the woman, which is according to Gen.37:9-10 is symbolic representing Israel, will flee out into the desert in the middle of the seven years, to that place that God will have prepared for her, where she will be cared for 1,260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years.

Bladerunner · Oct 18, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Hello eph610,

What would the letters to the seven churches have to do with the church not being gathered? Rev.1:19 is the key to understanding the order of events in Revelation. In Rev.1:19, Jesus told John to write what he had seen, what is now and what will take place later.

What you have seen:
Everything written from Rev.1:19 back to the beginning of revelation, which includes John's vision of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and John's vision of the glorified Christ.

What is now:
The what is now, is represented by the letters to the seven churches, which not only represents those seven churches as types, by the entire church period. We are currently living in the "Now" and that because the church is still being built. Once the church is completed and gathered, that will be the end of "what is now."

What will take place later:
This will be the time period after "what is now" i.e. after the church period. The time during which God's wrath will be poured out upon the earth. When John hears that voice that sounds like a trumpet saying "come up here!" That is prophetic of the church being caught up. That voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with "the trumpet call of God" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 where the church is resurrected, changed and caught up.

If you will take notice, from Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the word "ekklesia" translated "church" is used throughout those chapters. Within those same chapters the word "Hagios" translated as "saints" is never used. From chapter 4 onward, during the time of "what will take place later" the word church is never seen again, but only the word Hagios/saints is used to describe a believer and that beginning at Rev.5:8. This is significant in that, since the Holy Spirit stopped using the word ekklesia/church demonstrates that the church is no longer present on the earth during the description of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. If both the words church and saint were used interchangeably throughout the entire book of Revelation, then it would not be an issue, but since a distinction has been made between the two, it is relevant.

We are introduced to who these saints are in Rev.7:9-17, which is that group which no man could count wearing white robes from every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentile believers). John had previously been told to write letters to the seven churches. Now, the elder is asking John who these in white robes are and where they came from. That the elder is even asking John this question demonstrates that this group is not the church. In further support of the this, John doesn't know who they are. The elder then tells John that these are those who have come out of the great tribulation, ergo, great tribulation saints. It is this group that is in view throughout the narrative of God's wrath. It is this group that the beast is given authority to make war against and conquer, as seen in Rev.13.

What about Israel? Rev.12 states that the woman, which is according to Gen.37:9-10 is symbolic representing Israel, will flee out into the desert in the middle of the seven years, to that place that God will have prepared for her, where she will be cared for 1,260 days, which is that last 3 1/2 years.

Great Post Ahwatukee"::::::

They will flee south toward todays Jordan, to a mountain region in that area. I surmise this is the reason why Jordan survives the Psalm 83 and Gog Magog Wars as well "what ever happens' to the region between SA and Iran. It appears right now that some type of Nuclear happenings will take out the nuclear Plant because everyone in that region will be dispersed and Iran (the main part) will not be hurt.

pottersclay · Oct 18, 2016

PlainWord said:

Paul teaches the Thessalonians that before the Man of Sin is revealed and before Christ returns, the Church will "fall away." To me this implies that the Church is restraining the Man of Sin from being revealed. The concept of "falling away" is much different than the concept of being snatched up (raptured). That would be a lifting up, not a falling away.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition...

In my church we have very few young people. I would estimate about 70% of the church is older than me. What is it like in other churches? Are we just going to die out, those of us with faith? According to a recent 2015 Washington Post article (link below), Christianity is down 8% in just 7 years under Barrack Obama in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-becoming-even-less-affiliated-with-religion/

All across Europe, Christian churches are being replaced by Mosques. In the middle east you are killed if you are a Christian which I'm sure isn't helping our numbers. Part of the reason in the decline is Christians have one wife and family size is shrinking while Muslims are allowed 4 wives and often have larger families. The other main reason is world attitude towards Christians is increasingly hostile, if not outright fatal.

The holy spirit is the one that restrains the man of sin not the church.
The holly spirit is taken away with the church.

Church will Fall Away

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