CONFINED ARGUMENT THREAD

feedm3 · Jul 6, 2012

Oh feedm3.

Show me. Never have you answered any of these, not one, lol youre lying again. All you have to do is find your post where you answered, select text, then Copy, Then press quote or quick reply, then paste, and wow you will finally have proved somthing.

Nope, nothing here in repsonse to any of the questions

NOthign here either.

Here, maybe you forgot where they are:

Questions ED wont answer:
1. Was Adam and Eve created sinful?

2. Why did Adam and Eve sin?

3. Was their sin committed by freewill?

4. Why does a homosexual has to repent to go to heaven, do you?

5. What is repentance?

6. Do you repent of your sins?

7.. If a "true Christian does not continue in sin", Do you still continue in sin?

8. Does Hebrews 10:26 say "if we return to the law" or "if we sin willfully"?

9. If "we return to the law", then can you show where it says this? If "we sin willfully" then does that apply to all sin?

10. How can one "walk away from Jesus Christ" as you said, if he has no freewill?
Questions ED cant answer

Now, show your answer or answer. Or pipe down

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

feedm3 said:

see #474 to start.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/43447-confined-argument-thread-24.html

Work backwards from there.

feedm3 said:

NO

2. Why did Adam and Eve sin?

ANSWERED.
Eve was deceived (beguiled), Adam sinning wilfully.
They chose to.

3. Was their sin committed by freewill?

YES.

4. Why does a homosexual has to repent to go to heaven, do you?

YES

5. What is repentance?

μετάνοια
metanoia
changing one's mind

In Biblical Hebrew, the idea of repentance is represented by two verbs: שוב shuv (to return) and נחם nicham (to feel sorrow). In the New Testament, the word translated as 'repentance' is the Greek word μετάνοια (metanoia), "after/behind one's mind", which is a compound word of the preposition 'meta' (after, with), and the verb 'noeo' (to perceive, to think, the result of perceiving or observing). In this compound word the preposition combines the two meanings of time and change, which may be denoted by 'after' and 'different'; so that the whole compound means: 'to think differently after'. Metanoia is therefore primarily an after-thought, different from the former thought; a change of mind accompanied by regret and change of conduct, "change of mind and heart", or, "change of consciousness". A description of repentance in the New Testament can be found in the parable of the prodigal son found in the Gospel of Luke (15 beginning at verse 11).

6. Do you repent of your sins?

YES

7.. If a "true Christian does not continue in sin", Do you still continue in sin?

Sorry, reframe your question correctly.

I already corrected your sinful mishandling of this concept. I won't do so again.
You go learn what it is saying and stop using this as a hammer.
If you must use it as a hammer, strike yourself first, then you may strike me and others.

8. Does Hebrews 10:26 say "if we return to the law" or "if we sin willfully"?

I will feed it to you again.
It is concerning the 2 Covenants; pointing out to the Hebrews that the New and Only Covenant, Christ's Sacrifice is the Only Way.

If you refuse to read it with comprehension, and continue to childishly mishandle it (plucking a single verse from an entire chapter and book), you are willfully sinning, in idolatry and should repent.

Hebrews 10
One Sacrifice of Christ Is Sufficient

1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;

6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.

7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”

8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

A New and Living Way

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Christ or Judgment

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” 31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

37FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,
HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

38BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

39But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

9. If "we return to the law", then can you show where it says this? If "we sin willfully" then does that apply to all sin?

Now, your response to the above will determine you sincerity, and maturity (both are in question at this time).

feedm3 said:

Please provide a post where i said man does not have freewill.

You and I differ greatly on what condition that WILL is in. Should be simple to grasp, but deep rooted idolatry such as yours is hard to pull up. Pray about it.

feedm3 said:

If these answers are not sufficient, feel free to expand them (even though you said several times you were done), or you could apologize for all the ranting and accusations.
No need, I don't hold it against you, but perhaps you ought to take another look at your own signature.

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

Correction, but timed out.
I did not see the WHY at the start of your question.

This again is another of your immature approaches to the issues. Which is why its nearly impossible to have an honest discussion.

Why homosexual? Do you mean to say:

4. Why does a lost sinner have to repent to go to heaven?

OR

4. Why does a Christian who "fails from time to time" have to repent, confess and be cleansed to go to heaven?

feedm3 · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

So Adam and Eve were not created sinful, yet they chose to sin because of freewill, and deception (as many are still deceived) knowing God said they would die.

Now this answers your own question of why I can sin, even knowing that it leads to death.

The same reason they did. Deception and freewill.

This destroyed your argument, that we MUST be born in sin, or nature must be sinful, to choose sin.

Why? Because you just showed it was possible with Adam and Eve.

Second, sin has not changed, because sin still is ONLY limited to the breaking of God's laws.

So your saying YOU must repent of sin, So did I. You tried to twist that into me being judgmental of others, and claiming I was sinless. That was a lie.

I said from the beginning, it was ONLY done through repentance. You did not like that for some reason. Be honest and stop trying to make this into "I am perfect argument", because that is straw man, and the reason you cannot find me saying anything like this, if you could I am sure you would have shown it by now.

Statements like "we must" God has given "us", are self inclusive statements. Go back read, and you'll see that's all have said. I have not discussed anyones sins, because I don't even know them.

Yes, I agree, yet it is a change of mind that leads to an action. Without the action, there is no repentance.

Example.
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you

If he would have not changed his mind "and went", it could not be said he repented, because his condition of NOT obeying would be the same as it was.
It is the same for us.

"When was your last confession? What was your last sin?"- see how foolish this is, when one merely says they have repented. Now your saying the same. Do you apply these things to yourself?
As of now you are showing a perfect example of a hypocrite.

You can say you repent of your sins, yet this does not make you claim to be sinless and perfect, but if anyone else claims this, they are claiming to be sinless and perfect.
Seems a little Pharisaical don't you think.

No need to reframe, this is what you said, this is what I am asking.

Using what as a hammer? The fact that you attacked me for saying we must repent or we will not be forgiven? Only reason I ask is because of your obsession with my sins.

Your being a hypocrite so far. You attack what one says, then you say the same of yourself, yet now it does not apply.

NO answer again, because this one is so plain. The book you wrote below was just many words to dance around a clear as day phrase "if we sin willfully", yea returning to the law is included, yet not limited, because he said "IF WE SIN WILLFULLY", you refuse to even acknowledge it says this.

Dude, I didn't ask for the context of Heb 10, I know the context, yet the context does NOT change the meaning of "if we sin willfully", you still did not answer, and had to write a book to explain a simple passage. That's what happens when you try to explain away passages.

If fact in the context of verse 25, he is speaking of NOT forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, and then says "if we sin willfully..." and then says there will be no more sacrifice for sin".

Nothing changes because he is telling them NOT to return to the law in many OTHER places. "SIN WILLFULLY", this means unrepentant sins, including but not limited to returning to the law.

So you book was a waste of time, and if you believe we must repent anyway, why are you trying so hard to explain away the meaning of "if we SIN willfully" and limit that to the returning of the law????

I assumed it because you asked me, If I have freewill, why would I choose to sin. That was the whole reason for bringing up Adam and Eve.

All this only answers your own questions. Now when you repeat them, I can just post what you said here for your answer.

That was the whole point here, because since you repeated these questions so many times, it was obviously your strongest argument, I answered them, you ignored my answers, then you give the same answers I gave already about myself and apply them to why Adam and Eve sinned, with freewill, not being in the nature of sin.

Thank you for proving my point. Now if you wont listen to me, then listen to YOU.

Okay, and I will study the word while I do.

These answers are sufficient, they are great, exactly what I wanted - thanks.

I knew you would say these things, just needed you to say them first. Now go back and look at all your arguments concerning someone cannot choose to sin unless they were created sinful, because you just refuted yourself by proving that is not true.

Next, go look at all your arguments concerning Hebrews 10:26, and compare what you have said about repentance, because you just supported the correct interpretation.

This is too easy.

feedm3 · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

Oh, you understand it fine, your just not done dancing. But it's cool, I got what I needed, so now just waiting for your argument. So I can use you against you.

GreenNnice · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

No, not a trick question, just something to think about, Ed, to have you think about God, '...for God is Love.'

God convicts the world through His Holy Spirit, our 'Helper,' who helps both the saved AND the unsaved that days. But, once you are His sheep, Ed, and, YOU ARE once you elect Him your Saviour, right, what need is there to CONVICT us , remember 1 John 3:6,9, one born of God (repented and saved) 'does not sin.' . . And, yes, we CHOOSE Christ, many verses prove this, one is good ole Romans 10:13, 'Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' Sound Truthful? So we, in Christ, have no need of conviction because, born of Christ, one does NOT sin.

I simply want you to look at your Loving parent, God, in a different light, Ed.

'Convict' is a harsh word, you're already guilty by 'it,' that makes sense for original sin, as, by association, man was guilty of sin from day conceived, even before that . Who would it be that makes us associate feelings of guilt within yourself? God?

If that's your answer, or, if 'He' is your answer, show me where God put that feeling on man?
Show me where Jesus made others feel guilty while on Earth because Jesus was God, too (manifested).

GreenNnice · Jul 6, 2012

Others = disciples, or, those 'saved'

They are the ONLY ones God did not convict for sinniing once saved.

'Make feel guilty' is my bad, as that does not define 'convict' as 'proving guilty, ' or, another word would be 'condemning,'
Now, how about Romans 8:1 to further show that God does not convict, 'No condemnation for those in Him,' that verse says.

The Holy Spirit is inside us, so, that is who you think 'convicts' you, Ed.

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

feedm3 said:

For a guy who claims Adam has nothing to do with his own actions, you sure spend a lot of time going back to him.

Did sin enter in through Adam?
Were you born before or after Adam?

Did Adam's entire nature change after the fall? Did everything change for him and his wife?
Was he instantly aware that he was naked? Did the innocence and purity he had vanish in that instant?

Did he now choose to hide from the God he had previously walked with in innocence - BEFORE ANY BLOOD WAS SHED FOR HIS SIN SINCE HE HAD NONE WHATSOEVER?

Why are we told God had to now slay the very animals Adam had for friends and companions, shedding their blood to provide a cover for their sin and shame?

Did Adam die spiritually in the very day he ate?

It took 900 years for his body to return to dust. But didn't God tell him in that very day he ate he would die? Did he?

Was he included in this?:

Ephesians 2
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Why does Paul say "by nature"?

Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Oh. Something good dwells in you, but not in Paul?

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. (NIV)

What? Hmm...sinful nature?
Spirit fighting against the flesh so we don't do the things....you please? Why does he say it that way if we are pure?

Romans 8:5
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. (NIV)

Well, we appear to have two kinds of men.
One without the Spirit, and one with The Spirit.
Again, the nature of the one without the Spirit is mentioned.
Carnal. Sinful. By nature.

feedm3 said:

Wow.
I posted Holy Scripture and that's your response?

Now suddenly returning to the Law is included. I thought it had nothing to do with that?
Its about apostasy. Choosing another way.
Rejecting the only sacrifice for sins we have.

feedm3 said:

Yes, okay. Unrepentant sins.
So what kind of person never repents of their sins do you suppose?

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

feedm3 said:

I'm not explaining away the meaning of sinning willfully.
I'm objecting your use of it, like your use of 'continue in sin'.
In all cases you have so downgraded what sin is, you actually believe you are without it (no sin nature)

1 John 1
God Is Light

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Have you taken the time to find out what John means above, in bold?

How hard is this for you to grasp?:

Hebrews 10
32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

Who is the Book addressed to?
What is this chapter discussing?

The writer is exhorting the Hebrews who have heard the Gospel, and have begun in the faith to endure in it, and not shrink back to Judaism due to persecution and hardship.
He is exhorting them to keep believing in the ONE AND ONLY SACRIFICE FOR SIN they have, CHRIST.
That if they depart from the faith (fall away), in this case returning to Judaism, there is no more sacrifice for their sins.

feedm3 said:

Please address Paul above in discussing the sin NATURE of carnal man. unregenerate man. see Romans 8.

How many times must a man be born again? twice?

feedm3 said:

Why do you keep using the word created when it comes to you?
Adam was created out of the dust at God's own hand, and Eve from Adam.
YOU were born through fallen Adam. You do all the things he did AFTER the fall.
You were never like Adam before the fall.

feedm3 said:

OK.

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

feedm3 said:

OK.
That sounds like flesh to me.
But maybe its purity. Who knew?

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

GreenNnice said:

Thanks. I know how much God loved the world.
He gave His Only Son.

So, you don't sin?
You have no sin?

GreenNnice said:

You may have to rephrase this. It's a little muddled but I'll try to answer what I think you're saying.

Convict is a harsh word? I guess so.
What about scourge?

Hebrews 12
A Father’s Discipline

4You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

“MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,
NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;

6FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.”

7It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

12Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

GreenNnice said:

Feel guilty? Not sure what you're getting at.
I thought we were talking about being "convicted" by The Holy Spirit for going astray, sinning, "failing from time to time"?

8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

GreenNnice said:

I never feel condemned unto hell.
I do get the wakeup call when I've sinned. I confess my sins.
Don't you?

GreenNnice said:

edward99 said:

feedm3 · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

Dude, who are you mixing me up with? How did you ever come to the conlcusion I believe Adam had nothing to do with his own actions, whey all have been saying is, we have no excuse, we choose, Adam had freewill and chose to sin?

Yes, no, and?

YEs he did die, Isa 59:1,2,

Why? Becuase he trangressed God's law, that was sin then, and it is now.

All your doing is proving what I am saying, Adam chose to sin, and died spiritually because of it.

He did this by freewill, he was not created sinful, thanks, that what I am saying about us all.

First, you flaw is not seeing he died both physically and spiritually. This leads to the conclusion he would have never died. So what?

That becauase of their disobedience, their were BY NATURE those who would be punished for choosing to live in sin.

I JN 3:4 - did the defintion of sin change after Adam's sin? Or is it stil the same. If it is still the same, then we cannot be born sinners becauase we cannot violate God's law.

It is still the same, otherwise the HS would not have revealed this fact to us, 1000's of years after Adam.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS:

1. ACCORDING TO I JN 3:4 IS SIN ONLY THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW?

2. IS THIS SOMETHING WE DO, OR SOMETHING WE GET?

3. CAN AN INFANT TRANSGRESS GOD'S LAW?

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THEM, AND YOU ARE NOT PROVING ANYTHING WITH THEM.

DUH, THAT WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG, NOW YOU SAY IT NOT RETURNING TO THE LAW?

YOUR THE ONLY REASON THE LAW WAS BROUGHT UP.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

ONE WHO BELIEVES THEY DONT HAVE TO BECAUSE IT'S THEIR NATURE. SOUND FAMILIAR?

OF COURSE YOUR NOT SAYING THIS NOW, BECAUSE YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF WITH IT, NOW YOU CHANGED YORU VIEW.

SO WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU ARGUING?

OTHERS HAVE EVEN ASKED YOU TO MAKE A POINT, WHY WONT YOU JUST PLAINLY SAY WHAT IT IS YOUR TRYING TO PROVE TO ME.

1. I KNOW I HAVE SINNED

2. I KNOW I MAY SIN AGAIN IN THE FUTURE

3. I KNOW I MUST REPENT IF I DO

SO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE?

IS IT NOW YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS ONLY ABOUT IF WE WERE BORN IN SIN.

THAT'S ALREADY BEEN PROVED WRONG, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT - OKAY WE WERE, NOW WHAT DOES THAT PROVE?

I DONT EVEN THINK YOU CAN ANSWER THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVE FORGOT WHAT IT IS YOUR TRYING TO PROVE BY SWITCHING YOUR VIEWS.

YEP, PROVES WE SHOULD NOT LIE AND SAY WE ARE SINLESS BEINGS. GOOD PASSAGE, USE IT IN A RELEVANT PLACE, WHO IS SAYING THAT?

WHY WONT YOU EVER DISCUSS I JN 3:4?

NO SIN NATURE? IF THIS MEANS I BELIEVE I WAS NOT BORN A SINNER, A TRANSGRESSER OF GOD'S LAW, THEN YES I BELIEVE THAT.

IF YOU MEAN I BELIEVE I HAVE NO SIN AT ALL, THEN YOUR JUST BACKTRACKING INTO A STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.

ARE YOU CAPABLE OF LEAVING OUT THE STRAW MAN? DUDE WHEN DID I SAY I HAVE NO SIN?

ANYWAY, YOU WERE DISPROVED ALONG TIME AGO. YOUR ARGUING DIFFERENT POINTS, AND THEN ACTING IF IT'S ME ARGUING WHAT YOU DO, LIKE WITH ADAM HAVING CHOICE, AND WITH RETURNING TO THE LAW.

SERIOUSLY I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE RESORT TO PRETENDING THAT I HAVE YOUR VIEWS, AND THEN ACT AS IF YOUR GOING TO REFUTE YOUR OWN VIEW.

THIS IS PAST PATHETIC. GO ON AND FIGHT FOR THE SINS YOU LOVE SO MUCH, MAKE YOUR EXCUSES THAT IT IS BECAUSE OF YOUR NATURE YOU CHOOSE TO SIN, AND SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT FOR YOU.

FOR ONE WHO BELIEVES WE SHOULD REPENT, YOU SURE FIGHT HARD FOR SIN, AND FOR EXCUSES FOR SIN.

YOUR DONE, YOUR NOT GOOD AT THIS, YOU JUST ARE EMBARRASSED AND TRYING TO GIVE YOUR VIEWS TO ME, BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW FOOLISH THEY WERE. I HOPE YOU WILL REPENT OF FIGHTING FOR THE CAUSE OF SIN, AND HUMBLE YOURSELF AND SUBMIT TO GOD'S WILL.

GreenNnice · Jul 6, 2012

edward99 said:

------
God does not guilt His own in His disciplining His own .

Yes, you DO feel condemned to hell, don't you, because you don't see God as Love and when He gave you His Holy Spirit upon your faith obeying Him it was then that your intimacy of relationship with Christ began, for your receiving of Him.

Now, don't get this confused with being saved which requires, first, choosing Jesus as Lord followed by Godly sorrow and repentance, you are His, born of Him, after having done THIS step and working toward obeying the Word to baptize your life further in faith of Him in His time of 'Spirit and water' renewal.

You are disciplined, that is correct, Ed, but that is in no way a 'convictive' discipline, GOD's discipline Is of, like you said, 'scourge' and being 'reproved.'

But, nope, you are NOT convicted by God of your sins, and, God does not convict you of your law breaks, or, commandment grievances, just Loves us , as one WILL EXPECT FROM A PERFECT FATHER

He does not do that convicting, guilt , shame, act to His own, for God is Love and He knows that guilt derision does nothing productive to His sheep. BUT, YES, punishment by way of reproving, or, correcting, or, yes, even, scourging, IS done by God . He wants our perfect efforts in Him and His ways are not our humanness ways but they are perfect ways for us who will follow Him. The Lord leads.

God bore ALL your guilt and shame, LIVE in Him, perfectly following Him as He Spiritedly leads your life, will COVER

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

Hi GreenNnice.

GreenNnice said:

Um, no, I said i do NOT feel condemned unto hell.
I said I know how much God loves us, He gave His Only Son.
I know He is faithful.

You don't believe what I say?

In the above statement you have me:

1) feeling condemnation
2) don't see God as Love
3) but I have His Holy Spirit
4) I have intimacy with Christ
repeat.

Like, it makes no sense.
I said I know when I have sinned. In case I've gotten busy with sin, He lets me know.

You chose words like guilt and condemnation because you didn't like the sound of conviction.

Okay. Which word would you use?
It feels AWFUL because I know what sin is. OK?

GreenNnice said:

OK.
So I guess if I said I felt scourged it would sound like I know God loves me (?)

GreenNnice said:

Why is He scourging and reproving us, if it's not for sinning?
Sorry, I am convicted by The Holy Spirit when I sin, and I know it, and I know it is for my good.

I don't know why anyone would say they don't feel con....reproved when they sin (?)

GreenNnice said:

OK.
I didn't use guilt, shame or derision as descriptions of what I feel when reproved for sin.
Why anyone would not feel shame when they sin, I'm unclear of.
Still making no sense to me, but anyways.

Now you have Him punishing and scourging again. For what?

GreenNnice said:

So, He is scourging us because our efforts are not perfect?
He doesn't care about our sin, but our (good works?) efforts aren't perfect so we are punished for that?
Not following.

GreenNnice said:

Yes I know He did. And for that I can only give Him thanks and praise.
I know I will not be able to follow perfectly though.
And He forgives that as well, and for this I also give thanks and praise.
Ttyl.

edward99 · Jul 6, 2012

feedm3 said:

No, it should read: For a guy who believes Adam had nothing to do with the guy (you).

feedm3 said:

No, see, I know he died that day, spiritually. Then his body died later.
That was my point.

So in your scheme, everybody is born spiritually alive, then they sin and die spiritually, and their body dies.
But through the Gospel some are raised to spiritual life by the new birth.

How many times did Jesus say a man must be born of the Spirit?

feedm3 said:

That's quite a spin.

feedm3 said:

So your argument is ignorance = no condemnation?

feedm3 said:

You may be the sloppiest reader I've come across.
Why are you yelling?

feedm3 said:

I am not a Christian who believes I do not have to repent.
There are many who do believe that however.
And it's not because they think its their nature, its because they think they have no sin.

Natural man suppresses the truth, deceives himself, does not think he is a sinner.
And so do people who think they do not have to confess their sins and seek forgiveness and be cleansed.

Can you find me saying that anywhere?

feedm3 said:

All this talking (yelling) because you don't believe all men are born spiritually dead (through Adam), in need of the first resurrection.....and because you are a poor reader.

My views have not changed at all.
I'm not the slightest bit embarrassed. Why should I be?

And full circle again to the very reason I engaged with you to begin with:

"YOU SURE FIGHT HARD FOR SIN, AND FOR EXCUSES FOR SIN."

We're done.

GreenNnice · Jul 6, 2012

For the sake of argument, edderd, and, feeder, you both sure can argue, just remember to keep in Christ, He will keep you.

Ed, I think feed is saying, that we ARE born into sin, just like God ordained from Adam AND Eve's sin, BOTH sinned, sure, Eve was deceived, and, Adam willfully partook of the 'fruit' sin, but , BOTH partook. Same as you, you both believe man was born into sin AFTER Adam and Eve's sin sealed the 'laborious' fate for mankind, including being spiritually dead in sin until age of understanding by kids to choose Him, or, not.

It's nothing against either sex, just their mindset and inability to reason their choice would have fated consequences. Imagine, had paradise, and, that Snake deceived them. How could they do it, choose puny little Satan's promise over God's????

Easy, we humans are weak, and, IF Eve , or, Adam, had called on God in that temptuos moment, you can be sure things would have been different.

Anyway, Ed, I just was led to point out to you that when you said 'God convicts me of my sins all the time,' I'm here to ask you, Where in scripture does God ever say He convicts, shakes, guilts, condemns His own as a MEANS of discipline?

Sometimes, you get to hearing things I (and others) don't say, but....

I don't want you to leave this night with realizing that God does not never ever never convict His own. But, yes, as you used words, like, 'scourge,' reprove,' and, how about 'chasten' and, even, 'rebuke,' all these words, Ed, do not mean the same defining as what word?

Convict . Convict means you already are guilty, no pardon for you partner, my best description is of movie, 'Superman,' when Lex Luther' was found guilty in the Hall of Justice? in space. All these booming voices said in succession....
'Guilty.'
'Guilty.'
'Guilty....' The echo of that word resonated throughout The Hall and then Luther was thrown to Earth? and, anyway, the point is, God does NOT put that overburdening feeling EVER on His sheep who are FAITHFULLY OBEYING AND FOLLOWING Him.

Most know this, but, my favorite three words are 'The Lord leads,' and, it is because of Christ leading every 'sheep' individually on a life journey. He does this 'freely,' for us, we are NO LONGER IN BONDAGE BECAUSE OF HIS SIN DYING ON CROSS. The Lord Loves us, helps us, counsels us, empowers us, and, this is because we received Him into our being our dwelling place AFTER we'd first been born again and, baptized in water, as He leads us , which, is again without ANY guilt or condemnation IF you are born again but not baptized.

Bottom line is our life is one of freedom , but ONLY if we are a slave to Christ, but, Ed, we are NOT God's prisoner, EVER, we are His friend, mediating power of Jesus and His Holy Spirit in us making 'that' convincing relationship actively, connectively, correctively, real

And, IF we are convicted by God, this guilt, shame, condemation, would seep in and affect OUR CHOICE, whatever that choice is, God NEVER, therefore, convicts us, as THAT doing would take away our pure free choice. Now, Satan, back to that snake, WILL convict you, he will shame you, corrupt you, deceive you. That slimeball is not called 'the father of lies' for nothing, but God is NOT the author of confusion and one more reason we are NOT convicted. It is so so that we CAN make our OWN CHOICE--good or bad, sin or not sin. God NEVER clouds our decisions with guilt or shame or condemnation, we who ARE His already know that we are born of God and 'do not sin,' which is not by the conviction of the Holy Spirit but instead by the blood of The Lamb (Christ's cross sacrifice') and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

jimmydiggs · Jul 6, 2012

GreenNnice...

Do you feel good when you realize you've sinned against the one you love?

Do you like your sin, and relish in it?

Do you feel bad when you've sinned against the one you love?

Do you hate your sin?

Answer them individually, and please answer succinctly.

Thank you.

GreenNnice · Jul 7, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

GreenNnice...

Do you feel good when you realize you've sinned against the one you love?

Do you like your sin, and relish in it?

Do you feel bad when you've sinned against the one you love?

Do you hate your sin?

Answer them individually, and please answer succinctly.

Thank you.

You answer first.

Deadtosin · Jul 7, 2012

Deadtosin said:

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude.

Enochson, tell me about this one.

tribesman · Jul 7, 2012

edward99 said:

...I am not a Christian who believes I do not have to repent.
There are many who do believe that however.
And it's not because they think its their nature, its because they think they have no sin.

Natural man suppresses the truth, deceives himself, does not think he is a sinner.
And so do people who think they do not have to confess their sins and seek forgiveness and be cleansed...

Spot on! Blessed truth. Amen.

enochson · Jul 7, 2012

Deadtosin said:

Ok what does this have to do with us? I'm not out of the land of epypt or I'm a angel in bondage. It's seems to me the only thing many here know about is sin and jugdement and the law. They is no understanding of the true nature of God nor a want to learn of it. Just a bunch of pig in the mire. And it sicken me.

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