Confirmation that the Roman Empire is not the 8th King of Revelation 17
- Thread starter Markum1972
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oh no... I did not forget.
As you have mentioned, that was fulfilled. That has not been a topic of this thread. We are discussing the nature of the 8th empire.
However, thank you for pointing that out for anyone that may not have known that the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad was also spoken of by the prophet Daniel. However, do not confuse that beast with the 8th empire because...
John specifically said that the 8th beast "is not". This eliminates Rome because Rome was 6th king "which is". And also again, Daniel said it was the 4th king of Persia clearly. Back to John's statement that the 8th "was" indicates it WAS an empire before Rome. Notice the match...
Empires before Rome ("was"):
1st King = Egypt
2nd King = Assyria
3rd King = Babylon
4th King = Medo Persia
5th King = Greece
Then read Daniel 11. You will see it.
Furthermore, the beast you mentioned from Daniel 7. Have you noticed that one of them had 4 "HEADS"? Now watch...
Beast 1 (1st head): 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
Beast 2 (2nd head): 5 And behold, another beast, a second, like unto a bear. And it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it; and they said thus unto it, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’
Beast 3 (3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th head): 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl. The beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Beast 4 (7th head):7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth. It devoured, and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
I have only noticed this parallel this past week. I have also noticed that it appears that the 7th head that John mentioned appears to be missing. Is this because it "continues for a short space"? This is definitely something I intend on studying but if anyone has already done so, please share.
As you have mentioned, that was fulfilled. That has not been a topic of this thread. We are discussing the nature of the 8th empire.
However, thank you for pointing that out for anyone that may not have known that the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad was also spoken of by the prophet Daniel. However, do not confuse that beast with the 8th empire because...
John specifically said that the 8th beast "is not". This eliminates Rome because Rome was 6th king "which is". And also again, Daniel said it was the 4th king of Persia clearly. Back to John's statement that the 8th "was" indicates it WAS an empire before Rome. Notice the match...
Empires before Rome ("was"):
1st King = Egypt
2nd King = Assyria
3rd King = Babylon
4th King = Medo Persia
5th King = Greece
Then read Daniel 11. You will see it.
Furthermore, the beast you mentioned from Daniel 7. Have you noticed that one of them had 4 "HEADS"? Now watch...
Beast 1 (1st head): 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
Beast 2 (2nd head): 5 And behold, another beast, a second, like unto a bear. And it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it; and they said thus unto it, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’
Beast 3 (3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th head): 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl. The beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Beast 4 (7th head):7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth. It devoured, and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
I have only noticed this parallel this past week. I have also noticed that it appears that the 7th head that John mentioned appears to be missing. Is this because it "continues for a short space"? This is definitely something I intend on studying but if anyone has already done so, please share.
This was not written well and not clear. So I will say it this way...
According to scriptural description:
Fornication is the bringing of another relationship into a current relationship; having a relationship with God but bringing other gods into it; being married but having sexual relations with others.
Adultery is introducing another relationship into an existing one; trying to divide a union with God by introducing other gods; interfering in a marriage by trying to offer another relationship (usually, but not always, with the person introducing it).
These are not the definitions of fornication and adultery of the modern day; neither are they taught this way in the churches. There is therefore much confusion on the issue.
Again, look into it. Study it. Don't take my word for it. See what the scriptures say.
According to scriptural description:
Fornication is the bringing of another relationship into a current relationship; having a relationship with God but bringing other gods into it; being married but having sexual relations with others.
Adultery is introducing another relationship into an existing one; trying to divide a union with God by introducing other gods; interfering in a marriage by trying to offer another relationship (usually, but not always, with the person introducing it).
These are not the definitions of fornication and adultery of the modern day; neither are they taught this way in the churches. There is therefore much confusion on the issue.
Again, look into it. Study it. Don't take my word for it. See what the scriptures say.
The Lord always has a way of changing my mind and or expanding it (Within the confines of His Word). I intially was strongly against the idea that the U.S. could be a 7th King (Kingdom). But as I thought about it more, the U.S. is more likely to fit the other huges empires that have come before. The U.S. is like the big gorilla on the block that nobody messes with. The U.S. is highly influential in it's music, movies, books, etc. The U.S. is where everybody wants to live. Granted, while there are other English speaking countries besides America, English is usually associated with States and it is considered the "world language" (i.e. an international language). The U.S. military and intelligence agencies and technology is also a huge influence within this world, too.
Dear Markum:
I also agree that the Kings represent Kingdoms and also Demon Kings (That are influencing Those Kingdoms). Here is the passage:
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast." (Revelation 17:8-13).
And here is my beginning commentary on the Passage:
"The beast that you sawest that was"
The Beast is the Demonic spirit of the Final Anti-Christ who will one day manifest into the "Man of Sin" during the End Times (Whereby he will show himself to be as God in the Jewish Temple). This Beast that you seen that WAS is speaking about how he has been manifested in five previous fallen kingdoms (From John's perspective) (These fallen kingdoms that the Beast manifested himself within are: - 1. Egypt, 2. Assyria, 3. Babylon, 4. Medo-Persia, and 5. Greece).
""The beast that ... is not;"
I believe this passage is two fold in meaning.
#1. First, I believe the Anti-Christ will come off like a good guy or Savior to the whole world when he first appears on the scene with the Breaking of the 1st Seal. I believe (According to Scripture): He will sign a 7 year treaty with the Jews and the Romans and they will break that treaty with him because they don't trust him. So they break the treaty by successfully killing him in a battle (Which will possibly be a battle at sea). The man known as the Anti-Christ (i.e. The Beast) will be dead. He will no longer be in control of a human body for a short while until he resurrects that dead body and get's his revenge on those who have forsaken the covenant (i.e. the 7 year treaty).
#2. Second, from John's perspective: This "Beast that .... is not" is the 7th King or Kingdom. For John later writes within this passage "...and one is, and the OTHER is NOT YET COME;" (i.e. The Beast that ... is NOT). For in John's time the Beast of the 7th Kingdom did not come yet for him. It is not in existence to him yet. This could very well be the great world power known as the U.S. (Which would line up with all the other great world powers or kingdoms mentioned thru out Biblical History).
...
I also agree that the Kings represent Kingdoms and also Demon Kings (That are influencing Those Kingdoms). Here is the passage:
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast." (Revelation 17:8-13).
And here is my beginning commentary on the Passage:
"The beast that you sawest that was"
The Beast is the Demonic spirit of the Final Anti-Christ who will one day manifest into the "Man of Sin" during the End Times (Whereby he will show himself to be as God in the Jewish Temple). This Beast that you seen that WAS is speaking about how he has been manifested in five previous fallen kingdoms (From John's perspective) (These fallen kingdoms that the Beast manifested himself within are: - 1. Egypt, 2. Assyria, 3. Babylon, 4. Medo-Persia, and 5. Greece).
""The beast that ... is not;"
I believe this passage is two fold in meaning.
#1. First, I believe the Anti-Christ will come off like a good guy or Savior to the whole world when he first appears on the scene with the Breaking of the 1st Seal. I believe (According to Scripture): He will sign a 7 year treaty with the Jews and the Romans and they will break that treaty with him because they don't trust him. So they break the treaty by successfully killing him in a battle (Which will possibly be a battle at sea). The man known as the Anti-Christ (i.e. The Beast) will be dead. He will no longer be in control of a human body for a short while until he resurrects that dead body and get's his revenge on those who have forsaken the covenant (i.e. the 7 year treaty).
#2. Second, from John's perspective: This "Beast that .... is not" is the 7th King or Kingdom. For John later writes within this passage "...and one is, and the OTHER is NOT YET COME;" (i.e. The Beast that ... is NOT). For in John's time the Beast of the 7th Kingdom did not come yet for him. It is not in existence to him yet. This could very well be the great world power known as the U.S. (Which would line up with all the other great world powers or kingdoms mentioned thru out Biblical History).
...
I am in agreement with you on most of this.
The only detail is the antichrist kingdom coming from all 5 of the fallen kingdoms. I had not considered that, yet while that could be based on what John said, it could also be only one of the 5 fallen or a combination of 2 or more.
The only reason I lean towards Persia is because of what Daniel was shown about the 4 kings of Persia. He was shown that his kingdom would be much greater and wealthier than the rest. That kingdom is also described exactly like the antichrist kingdom where it mentions the abomination of desolation for the first time ever in scripture in that 4th Persian Empires description.
I also find the descriptions of the antichrist kingdom to have an uncanny resemblance to Islam (modern Persia). There are so many things about Islam that fit perfectly.
-The beheadings of those that will not bow down to Allah, nor worship his image (the black stone).
-Muslims are of all nations and all tongues of the world.
-Professing Jesus to be the son of God is the unforgivable sin in Islam. Not confessing it is the exact description of antichrist in scripture. So Islam is indeed an antichrist kingdom.
-The 4th horseman is pale green; this is the color of Islam. Islam brings death and hell by denying Christ Jesus.
-Islam's primary enemy are Jews and Christians. Islam has declared war first on Israel and then the United States.
-Islam has more Babylonian symbols in it than any other religion (including the Roman Catholic church); one of those symbols is the magic number system used by Babylonian sorcerers. The numbers are all on the tablet and so is their sum which is shown at the bottom center of that tablet... 666.
-Islam changed the sabbath day to the 6th day of the week; the day of man.
-Islam intends on taking Jerusalem as its capital and placing the Mahdi (messiah of Islam) in the Dome of the Rock which sits on the holy hill of God.
-Islam makes up about 24% of the earth's population. Almost 1/4 of the earth's population.
-Great plagues have come out of Islamic countries... like AIDS and ebola.
-Islam has left the natural use of women by making them slaves to their husbands.
-Islam states that no buying and selling should take place with anything other than the right hand. The left hand is forbid to be used for anything except wiping after defecation.
-Islam sells children into slavery.
All of these things are descriptions in scripture that Islam fits. And these are just off the top of my head. I have been using the process of elimination to compare the descriptions to the kingdoms of the earth for a few years now. Islam is the only one that fits the criteria.
Study the history of the Kaaba and black stone. I am pretty sure that this stone is the same stone that fell at the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's image. They have been worshiping it for millennia. I am almost 100% convinced that they have been worshiping since then.
" and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."
The whore sits on seven mountains. I believe that this stone is one of those.
Just some things to ponder. Look into these things and let me know what you think.
The only detail is the antichrist kingdom coming from all 5 of the fallen kingdoms. I had not considered that, yet while that could be based on what John said, it could also be only one of the 5 fallen or a combination of 2 or more.
The only reason I lean towards Persia is because of what Daniel was shown about the 4 kings of Persia. He was shown that his kingdom would be much greater and wealthier than the rest. That kingdom is also described exactly like the antichrist kingdom where it mentions the abomination of desolation for the first time ever in scripture in that 4th Persian Empires description.
I also find the descriptions of the antichrist kingdom to have an uncanny resemblance to Islam (modern Persia). There are so many things about Islam that fit perfectly.
-The beheadings of those that will not bow down to Allah, nor worship his image (the black stone).
-Muslims are of all nations and all tongues of the world.
-Professing Jesus to be the son of God is the unforgivable sin in Islam. Not confessing it is the exact description of antichrist in scripture. So Islam is indeed an antichrist kingdom.
-The 4th horseman is pale green; this is the color of Islam. Islam brings death and hell by denying Christ Jesus.
-Islam's primary enemy are Jews and Christians. Islam has declared war first on Israel and then the United States.
-Islam has more Babylonian symbols in it than any other religion (including the Roman Catholic church); one of those symbols is the magic number system used by Babylonian sorcerers. The numbers are all on the tablet and so is their sum which is shown at the bottom center of that tablet... 666.
-Islam changed the sabbath day to the 6th day of the week; the day of man.
-Islam intends on taking Jerusalem as its capital and placing the Mahdi (messiah of Islam) in the Dome of the Rock which sits on the holy hill of God.
-Islam makes up about 24% of the earth's population. Almost 1/4 of the earth's population.
-Great plagues have come out of Islamic countries... like AIDS and ebola.
-Islam has left the natural use of women by making them slaves to their husbands.
-Islam states that no buying and selling should take place with anything other than the right hand. The left hand is forbid to be used for anything except wiping after defecation.
-Islam sells children into slavery.
All of these things are descriptions in scripture that Islam fits. And these are just off the top of my head. I have been using the process of elimination to compare the descriptions to the kingdoms of the earth for a few years now. Islam is the only one that fits the criteria.
Study the history of the Kaaba and black stone. I am pretty sure that this stone is the same stone that fell at the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's image. They have been worshiping it for millennia. I am almost 100% convinced that they have been worshiping since then.
" and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."
The whore sits on seven mountains. I believe that this stone is one of those.
Just some things to ponder. Look into these things and let me know what you think.
In other words, all 8 kings represent human rulers (of a great kingdom or major world power) who are influenced by the demonic final spirit of the Anti-Christ known as the Beast. All eight kings are all Demon Kings but they are all influenced by just one demon, i.e. the Beast. The Beast's seven heads (are just the physical human manifestations of it's human ruler and their kingdom).
The woman who rides the beast is another demon who is manifested thru a human religious entity and great city. This woman is not the beast but merely rides the beast. Her name is Mystery Babylon. She is the Mystery Babylon religion that was manifested all the way back to the Tower of Babel.
Also, I wanted to mention ssomething before I forget, too.
In Light of of my recent comments on Revelation 17:
There is the Beast:
(From John's perspective):
This is the devil's way (within his kingdom) of trying to be like the Most High.
For Jesus said, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end,
And the devil is a roaring lion seeking of whom he may devour.
People will think the Anti-Christ (i.e. the Beast within the Devil's Kingdom) will be the Messiah. But it is a counterfeit and or false Messiah, though.
The woman who rides the beast is another demon who is manifested thru a human religious entity and great city. This woman is not the beast but merely rides the beast. Her name is Mystery Babylon. She is the Mystery Babylon religion that was manifested all the way back to the Tower of Babel.
Also, I wanted to mention ssomething before I forget, too.
In Light of of my recent comments on Revelation 17:
There is the Beast:
(From John's perspective):
#1. Who was (in the form of the fallen five kingdoms)
#2. Who is (6th kingdom - Rome)
#3. Who is not yet come (7th kingdom today)
#2. Who is (6th kingdom - Rome)
#3. Who is not yet come (7th kingdom today)
This is the devil's way (within his kingdom) of trying to be like the Most High.
For Jesus said, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end,
#1. Which is, and
#2. Which was, and
#3. Which is to come, the Almight.
For Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.#2. Which was, and
#3. Which is to come, the Almight.
And the devil is a roaring lion seeking of whom he may devour.
People will think the Anti-Christ (i.e. the Beast within the Devil's Kingdom) will be the Messiah. But it is a counterfeit and or false Messiah, though.
Remember Leonardo Dicaprio in Titanic when he said,
"I am the king of the world!"?
That is kind of how I see these previous beast empires now. They were kingdoms that had an almost global or world wide influence. For even Nebuchadnezzar had acknowledged the one true God and he was the King of Babylon (As I am sure you know). I currently don't see Islam as being a kingdom of great world wide power like the previous kingdoms mentioned in Bible prophecy. I believe the 8th kingdom will be the Anti-Christ's rule and he will at first appear to be a good guy or a savior to people.
"I am the king of the world!"?
That is kind of how I see these previous beast empires now. They were kingdoms that had an almost global or world wide influence. For even Nebuchadnezzar had acknowledged the one true God and he was the King of Babylon (As I am sure you know). I currently don't see Islam as being a kingdom of great world wide power like the previous kingdoms mentioned in Bible prophecy. I believe the 8th kingdom will be the Anti-Christ's rule and he will at first appear to be a good guy or a savior to people.
This is one of the other things that amazes me about how deceptive Islam is. Cultural jihad has given them strength in every nation in the world. Yet they remain hidden and silent until they receive orders to rise up and kill the infidels. They have positions in government as well as other powerful positions.
I am convinced that Obama is a Muslim with the same agenda as Islam. This would explain why so many nations have fallen into Islamic hands with his assistance. When Obama was re-elected, there were celebrations throughout Islam saying "We tricked America! Praise be to Allah!"
It is an incredibly effective tactic of warfare.
This converted Muslim's testimony is AWESOME!
[video=youtube;m2zP1Ri60Eg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2zP1Ri60Eg[/video]
Have you heard about all of the laws that are changing in England because of Islam?
I am convinced that Obama is a Muslim with the same agenda as Islam. This would explain why so many nations have fallen into Islamic hands with his assistance. When Obama was re-elected, there were celebrations throughout Islam saying "We tricked America! Praise be to Allah!"
It is an incredibly effective tactic of warfare.
This converted Muslim's testimony is AWESOME!
[video=youtube;m2zP1Ri60Eg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2zP1Ri60Eg[/video]
Have you heard about all of the laws that are changing in England because of Islam?
E
it was only partially fulfilled.
The beast who was to come has not come yet. He is the final beast. The one spoken of in daniel and revelation. The one destroyed by Christ himself. The final roman empire. the final gentile power.
there was always two parts to rome. it was just hidden. but we see today.
E
4 Gentile Beasts
Dan 2
Head - Gold Babylon
Chest and arms - Silver - belly and thighs bronze - media persia
legs - iron - Rome
feet - iron and clay - Rome 2 (splintered)
Concerning the 4th beast:
1. Will crush all other kingdoms, and power and territory will exced all of the other kingdoms. (History shows Rome fulfilled this not only in area of the kingdom, but in the number of years she held power)
2. It was this kingdom which was in power during the time of Christ, during the time of the writing of revelation. and in 70 ad, It had one king (vespacian) and its power was at its fullest. The people of this king destroyed the city of jerusalam and its temple. (titus) who at the death of vespacian, became king of rome, proving that in this time, we were still under the 4th or roman kingdom of iron.
3. At sometime in history, will splinter into ten kingdom or ten parts
4. Will be divided but still have the strength of the origional kingdom
5. partly strong and partly fragile (divided as it is not one kingdom in unity, but many kingdoms, which which will not adhere to one another (be in unity)
6. Christ himself (the stone) will destroy this kingdom (Stone hits the feet, which crush them) destroying this kingdom. causes all the gentile kingdome to crumble and fall, destroying all the gentile kingdoms (the statue) which was seen by nebechadnezzar. Leaving no trace of them behind (the end of Gentile dominion)
7. When the final kingdom (iron and clay) is destroyed, God himself will set up his kingdom, which will never be destroyed.
So what we have is this, in this shorter vision daniel is exposed to (a much greater one will come later)
1. only 4 kingdoms were in power up till Christ, the same 4th kingdom destroyed the city and temple.
2. History shows when Rome fell, it was divided into two parts (not ten) and then fell off the map.
3. Up until this day, there has been no nation which has had ten kings, which has part of the power of rome (iron) and part of the power of man (clay) thus, already in just the 2nd chapter of daniel, we have introduced a prophetic gap between the time the 4th kingdom suffered its mortal wound (died) and the restoration of that kingdom in a fractured way (iron and clay)
4. The final kingdom will be crushed by God himself, at that time, Gods kingdom will be established which will never be destroyed.
dan 7
Lion with eagles wings - Babylon, we are told wings were plucked off (lost its power) and made to stand like a man. Nebachadnezar lost his power. and made to crawl like an animal later, stood up again and regained his power (after confessing one God)
bear, standing up on one side - Media Persia -two sided bear, One stronger than the other, History showed the medes were weaker power, Persia untied with them, and was much stronger. In fact most historians call this the perisan empire, 3 ribs = 3 kingdoms destroyed by the persions, They egyptian, assyrian and babylonian empires were taken by this power
leapard - 4 wings and 4 heads - greek - one power splintered into 4 when Alexander the great died at a young age.
Concerning the 4th beast;
1. huge and powerfull with iron teeth. - rome, again the iron kingdom. Again, the most powerful, Rome actually held more land than any kingdom previous and any since, It also had the longest reign of any of the previous kingdoms on earth (including back to Egyption kingdom)
2. then we are told out of this beast 10 horns will arise, which are ten kingdoms, out of which grows one horn which destroys three horns. he is given a mouth, and speaks pompous words. Had teeth of Iron and Nails of bronze (in chapter two it was iron and clay mixed)
what we see here is a more detailed vision which goes into greater detail than the basic one of daniel 2 of the 4th beast, Chapter 8 goes into greater detail of the second two empires The interpretation given is mostly concerning the 4th beast, which was great and terrible. What we also see is another example of a prophetic gap between the original roman empire, and the reformed roman ten king empire, however, this gap is made more clear here as we will see.
According to the interpretation we are told this about the reformed empire;
1. 10 horns are ten kings, which will arise out of the original beast
2. another will arise (the little horn)
3. he will subdue three of the kings and these kingdoms will be added to his kingdom (leaving 7 kingdoms)
4. shall speak blasphemies against the most high God
5. change times and laws
6. Shall gain control of the whole earth
7. saints are given to him, and he will persecute them for times time and half a time (3 1/2 years)
8. slain at the end by Christ and sent to burning flame
9. Kingdom given to the Christ, and all men and nations and languages shall serve him.
Who is this Little horn? Do we see him again spoken of in prophesy?
Beast of revelation, given to John .
Ch 13:
1. Had characteristics of all of daniels beasts (leopard, bear and Lion) and is itself the 4th beast
2. Given power by satan himself (son of perdition)
3. Was mortally wounded (lost his power) but was restored to life (Rome died, and even though many have tried to revive it, No one has succeeded, Satan will revive this power)
4. Spoke pompous words (blasphemies)
5. Given power for 42 months (3 ½ years)
6. Given power to persecute the saints of God
7. Power is greater than any previous empire. As it is worldwide in scope (every tribe, language and nation were given to his hand) how many more ways can God say worldwide, every human alive at this time will be under his power.
Ch 17:
1. Was (had power) is not (lost power) will ascend out of the abyss (powered by Satan himself) will be destroyed (perdition)
2. 7 kings, 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, media-persia, Greece. One is (rome) and one is yet to come (Rome 2 or iron and clay)
3. He will continue a short time
4. 10 kingdom nation (splintered, they will give power to the beast, but will not be unified.
5. Will make war with God himself (the saints) but will be destroyed by the lamb
Rev 19
1. Beast and worlds armies gather together to make war with the lamb
2. Christ defeats beast and worlds armies (so many bodies are left in this battle that birds feast on them for months)
3. Beast is captured, and thrown to the fire
So we see from these two accounts, the following which is identical with the little horn and the beast.
1. A power of ten kingdoms will unite and form a kingdom which has come out of Rome (Dan 2: 41, Dan 7: 7, 24, Rev 17: 12-13)
2. A little horn, or beast, will come out from among these ten (Dan 7:8, Rev 17: 12)
3. Will gain control of the whole earth (Dan 7: 23, Rev 7: 7)
4. Will be given power for 3 ½ years (Dan 7: 25, Rev 13:5)
5. Will speak blasphemies (Dan 7: 25, Rev 13: 5)
6. Will make war with the saints of God, and given permission by God to do so (Dan 7: 21, Rev 13: 7)
7. God puts and end to his reign by defeating him (Dan 2: 45, Dan 7: 11, 22, 26, Rev 19: 20)
8. Will is cast into fire (Dan 7: 11, Rev 19: 20)
We can also find other things in these passages, and use other passages in scripture to show what is done by him, and when this will be.
In dan 2, we are told he will “intend to change times and laws” The Aramaic word for time can mean to make an agreement for a specific period of time. In Dan 9, we are told of a future prince of Rome who will confirm a covenant for 1 week. (time) In Rev, we are told this beast will change a law, for the first time in the history of the world, the worlds economy will be empowered by one man (can not buy or sell unless they have the mark of the beast)
In dan 7, we are told he will blaspheme the tabernacle, In dan 9, we are told he will commit the abomination of desolation, as also mentioned of as going to happen by Christ himself in matt 24, right before the great tribulation starts.
In all accounts, we are told he will be personally defeated by Christ himself, In matt 24 we are told why, Unless Christ himself comes. NO FLESH will survive this causes him to return to earth with his armies, and personally defeat the beast, putting an end to the “time or age of the
And finally, in all accounts, After this defeat of the gentile kingdoms, Christ sets up his kingdom on earth, which will be an everlasting kingdom which will never be destroyed. We are told in rev, during this time, Satan will be bound for 1000 years. At the end, he will make one final attempt to defeat the lamb, but will be destroyed before it even gets off its feet, and then the heavenas and earth will be destroyed, and a new one established, after all evil is judged (great white throne) and all Gods children are given a new heaven and earth.
As I mentioned earlier. All of these accounts show a "prophetic gap" which is infered between the end of the 4th beast (rome) and the re-establishment of the beast in latter times. Here is the further proof I said I would show.
1. World dominion (over every tribe, language and nation) no world power up to this date has ever held dominion over every nation tribe and language
2. Holds power over worlds finances, again, no world power has ever held, nor have the ever held the capacity to hold power over the financial markets of the entire world so that he can say who is able to purchase or sell goods, meaning all forms of money (gold and silver, paper money, are made obsolite) in fact, until recently with the advent of computers has this even been possible
3. Military might with destructive power capable of destroying all life (flesh) on earth, Again, until the past 100 years, this was not even possible)
4. The restoration of the woman (Isreal) and the temple in Isreal. Rev tells us this world leader, and these events (which I just proved could not have even been possible until the past 100 years, and has not happened yet) would go after the woman (Isreal) but that she will be protected supernaturally By God, and causes him to turn after her offspring (the church) Thus Isreal would have to have been re-established as a nation. It also tells us he will blaspheme God and his tabernacle by commiting the abomination of desolation, Which means not only will the nation have to be re-established, but the temple rebuilt. OT Scripture makes it clear, one day God will restor Isreal to her land and give life to it (dry bones) that during this time, there will be a time of Great troube (Jacobs trouble or great tribulation) such as never been seen before or after (will make AD70, WW2 and other great wars and tribulations look like a walk in the park) and God will use these events to put and end to the age of the gentiles, at which time, "All Isreal will be saved" as they repent and turn to their true God, and renounce all the false God they have been worshiping. Again, up until recent history, no nation has suffered total military defeat, her people spread throughout the world so no resemblance of them is found, and then been restored to her land, Isreal is the first nation in the history of mankind to have this happen (show me where the edomites, the hittites, the canaanites have been restored?)
since all of these events, until recent history, have been impossible to be fulfilled, or even have not been fulfilled yet. There had to have been a prophetic gap imposed on all these visions (which would include the vision and prophesy of Daniel 9 and his 70 weeks) which would prove, that dan 9 is NOT THE ONLY prophetic gap as seen in the visions and prophesies of Daniel.
Dan 2
Head - Gold Babylon
Chest and arms - Silver - belly and thighs bronze - media persia
legs - iron - Rome
feet - iron and clay - Rome 2 (splintered)
Concerning the 4th beast:
1. Will crush all other kingdoms, and power and territory will exced all of the other kingdoms. (History shows Rome fulfilled this not only in area of the kingdom, but in the number of years she held power)
2. It was this kingdom which was in power during the time of Christ, during the time of the writing of revelation. and in 70 ad, It had one king (vespacian) and its power was at its fullest. The people of this king destroyed the city of jerusalam and its temple. (titus) who at the death of vespacian, became king of rome, proving that in this time, we were still under the 4th or roman kingdom of iron.
3. At sometime in history, will splinter into ten kingdom or ten parts
4. Will be divided but still have the strength of the origional kingdom
5. partly strong and partly fragile (divided as it is not one kingdom in unity, but many kingdoms, which which will not adhere to one another (be in unity)
6. Christ himself (the stone) will destroy this kingdom (Stone hits the feet, which crush them) destroying this kingdom. causes all the gentile kingdome to crumble and fall, destroying all the gentile kingdoms (the statue) which was seen by nebechadnezzar. Leaving no trace of them behind (the end of Gentile dominion)
7. When the final kingdom (iron and clay) is destroyed, God himself will set up his kingdom, which will never be destroyed.
So what we have is this, in this shorter vision daniel is exposed to (a much greater one will come later)
1. only 4 kingdoms were in power up till Christ, the same 4th kingdom destroyed the city and temple.
2. History shows when Rome fell, it was divided into two parts (not ten) and then fell off the map.
3. Up until this day, there has been no nation which has had ten kings, which has part of the power of rome (iron) and part of the power of man (clay) thus, already in just the 2nd chapter of daniel, we have introduced a prophetic gap between the time the 4th kingdom suffered its mortal wound (died) and the restoration of that kingdom in a fractured way (iron and clay)
4. The final kingdom will be crushed by God himself, at that time, Gods kingdom will be established which will never be destroyed.
dan 7
Lion with eagles wings - Babylon, we are told wings were plucked off (lost its power) and made to stand like a man. Nebachadnezar lost his power. and made to crawl like an animal later, stood up again and regained his power (after confessing one God)
bear, standing up on one side - Media Persia -two sided bear, One stronger than the other, History showed the medes were weaker power, Persia untied with them, and was much stronger. In fact most historians call this the perisan empire, 3 ribs = 3 kingdoms destroyed by the persions, They egyptian, assyrian and babylonian empires were taken by this power
leapard - 4 wings and 4 heads - greek - one power splintered into 4 when Alexander the great died at a young age.
Concerning the 4th beast;
1. huge and powerfull with iron teeth. - rome, again the iron kingdom. Again, the most powerful, Rome actually held more land than any kingdom previous and any since, It also had the longest reign of any of the previous kingdoms on earth (including back to Egyption kingdom)
2. then we are told out of this beast 10 horns will arise, which are ten kingdoms, out of which grows one horn which destroys three horns. he is given a mouth, and speaks pompous words. Had teeth of Iron and Nails of bronze (in chapter two it was iron and clay mixed)
what we see here is a more detailed vision which goes into greater detail than the basic one of daniel 2 of the 4th beast, Chapter 8 goes into greater detail of the second two empires The interpretation given is mostly concerning the 4th beast, which was great and terrible. What we also see is another example of a prophetic gap between the original roman empire, and the reformed roman ten king empire, however, this gap is made more clear here as we will see.
According to the interpretation we are told this about the reformed empire;
1. 10 horns are ten kings, which will arise out of the original beast
2. another will arise (the little horn)
3. he will subdue three of the kings and these kingdoms will be added to his kingdom (leaving 7 kingdoms)
4. shall speak blasphemies against the most high God
5. change times and laws
6. Shall gain control of the whole earth
7. saints are given to him, and he will persecute them for times time and half a time (3 1/2 years)
8. slain at the end by Christ and sent to burning flame
9. Kingdom given to the Christ, and all men and nations and languages shall serve him.
Who is this Little horn? Do we see him again spoken of in prophesy?
Beast of revelation, given to John .
Ch 13:
1. Had characteristics of all of daniels beasts (leopard, bear and Lion) and is itself the 4th beast
2. Given power by satan himself (son of perdition)
3. Was mortally wounded (lost his power) but was restored to life (Rome died, and even though many have tried to revive it, No one has succeeded, Satan will revive this power)
4. Spoke pompous words (blasphemies)
5. Given power for 42 months (3 ½ years)
6. Given power to persecute the saints of God
7. Power is greater than any previous empire. As it is worldwide in scope (every tribe, language and nation were given to his hand) how many more ways can God say worldwide, every human alive at this time will be under his power.
Ch 17:
1. Was (had power) is not (lost power) will ascend out of the abyss (powered by Satan himself) will be destroyed (perdition)
2. 7 kings, 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, media-persia, Greece. One is (rome) and one is yet to come (Rome 2 or iron and clay)
3. He will continue a short time
4. 10 kingdom nation (splintered, they will give power to the beast, but will not be unified.
5. Will make war with God himself (the saints) but will be destroyed by the lamb
Rev 19
1. Beast and worlds armies gather together to make war with the lamb
2. Christ defeats beast and worlds armies (so many bodies are left in this battle that birds feast on them for months)
3. Beast is captured, and thrown to the fire
So we see from these two accounts, the following which is identical with the little horn and the beast.
1. A power of ten kingdoms will unite and form a kingdom which has come out of Rome (Dan 2: 41, Dan 7: 7, 24, Rev 17: 12-13)
2. A little horn, or beast, will come out from among these ten (Dan 7:8, Rev 17: 12)
3. Will gain control of the whole earth (Dan 7: 23, Rev 7: 7)
4. Will be given power for 3 ½ years (Dan 7: 25, Rev 13:5)
5. Will speak blasphemies (Dan 7: 25, Rev 13: 5)
6. Will make war with the saints of God, and given permission by God to do so (Dan 7: 21, Rev 13: 7)
7. God puts and end to his reign by defeating him (Dan 2: 45, Dan 7: 11, 22, 26, Rev 19: 20)
8. Will is cast into fire (Dan 7: 11, Rev 19: 20)
We can also find other things in these passages, and use other passages in scripture to show what is done by him, and when this will be.
In dan 2, we are told he will “intend to change times and laws” The Aramaic word for time can mean to make an agreement for a specific period of time. In Dan 9, we are told of a future prince of Rome who will confirm a covenant for 1 week. (time) In Rev, we are told this beast will change a law, for the first time in the history of the world, the worlds economy will be empowered by one man (can not buy or sell unless they have the mark of the beast)
In dan 7, we are told he will blaspheme the tabernacle, In dan 9, we are told he will commit the abomination of desolation, as also mentioned of as going to happen by Christ himself in matt 24, right before the great tribulation starts.
In all accounts, we are told he will be personally defeated by Christ himself, In matt 24 we are told why, Unless Christ himself comes. NO FLESH will survive this causes him to return to earth with his armies, and personally defeat the beast, putting an end to the “time or age of the
And finally, in all accounts, After this defeat of the gentile kingdoms, Christ sets up his kingdom on earth, which will be an everlasting kingdom which will never be destroyed. We are told in rev, during this time, Satan will be bound for 1000 years. At the end, he will make one final attempt to defeat the lamb, but will be destroyed before it even gets off its feet, and then the heavenas and earth will be destroyed, and a new one established, after all evil is judged (great white throne) and all Gods children are given a new heaven and earth.
As I mentioned earlier. All of these accounts show a "prophetic gap" which is infered between the end of the 4th beast (rome) and the re-establishment of the beast in latter times. Here is the further proof I said I would show.
1. World dominion (over every tribe, language and nation) no world power up to this date has ever held dominion over every nation tribe and language
2. Holds power over worlds finances, again, no world power has ever held, nor have the ever held the capacity to hold power over the financial markets of the entire world so that he can say who is able to purchase or sell goods, meaning all forms of money (gold and silver, paper money, are made obsolite) in fact, until recently with the advent of computers has this even been possible
3. Military might with destructive power capable of destroying all life (flesh) on earth, Again, until the past 100 years, this was not even possible)
4. The restoration of the woman (Isreal) and the temple in Isreal. Rev tells us this world leader, and these events (which I just proved could not have even been possible until the past 100 years, and has not happened yet) would go after the woman (Isreal) but that she will be protected supernaturally By God, and causes him to turn after her offspring (the church) Thus Isreal would have to have been re-established as a nation. It also tells us he will blaspheme God and his tabernacle by commiting the abomination of desolation, Which means not only will the nation have to be re-established, but the temple rebuilt. OT Scripture makes it clear, one day God will restor Isreal to her land and give life to it (dry bones) that during this time, there will be a time of Great troube (Jacobs trouble or great tribulation) such as never been seen before or after (will make AD70, WW2 and other great wars and tribulations look like a walk in the park) and God will use these events to put and end to the age of the gentiles, at which time, "All Isreal will be saved" as they repent and turn to their true God, and renounce all the false God they have been worshiping. Again, up until recent history, no nation has suffered total military defeat, her people spread throughout the world so no resemblance of them is found, and then been restored to her land, Isreal is the first nation in the history of mankind to have this happen (show me where the edomites, the hittites, the canaanites have been restored?)
since all of these events, until recent history, have been impossible to be fulfilled, or even have not been fulfilled yet. There had to have been a prophetic gap imposed on all these visions (which would include the vision and prophesy of Daniel 9 and his 70 weeks) which would prove, that dan 9 is NOT THE ONLY prophetic gap as seen in the visions and prophesies of Daniel.
P
We are very busy looking at the "symptoms" ... yes there are symptoms and big ones... but gods hand is not to short... his plan is far more strategic than all mans put together... all this makes me think of the strength of the lord from that one video... look at what god did.. not only did he pin a god in one man but converted him all by himself too.. alone with no one around.. yes the love of god worked " through" a believer who "applied" the practical instruction of God... but it boiled down to that one man and our one true god alone together in a room... our focus is to much on the symptoms instead of the "application" of our instruction from God.. that surgeon had it right... his application of instruction from God and whatbhebhas told us to do is right... he looked past the sin and loved the sinner.. not to glorify himself but it glorified god... that surgeon "loved" the least in Gods kingdom... the results of this video has heightened my awareness of the importance of our focus .. not on who is doing what where.. but on what we are doing, with who, where. A volcano has symptoms , the explosion, the eruption can also be used as a ploy.. a strategic tactic by the enemy... a diversion tool.. if I make the eruption big enough you will look at the results of "that" and not see what to do as it is happening... very sly move by the enemy... put a bomb here then peoples attention will be diverted to the explosion and not even look as others are being planted... its happening all around... focus on the application of instruction and the wounded will be better tended too
P
Sometimes the "stir" itself ...the noise itself, are a enough to steal our real focus... they are actually waves of diversion... focus focus focus on God and god alone... hes at the controls of it all .. another thing is... if you look at it.. the diversion of" remaining in the reality of a present moment with God" is aproblem too... just look at where the enemy of the mind can take you without your awareness of it.. we've been to Greece, Persia and many other places.. and we haven't even moved from a chair... the mind is the battlefield.. look at what's not getting our attention around where we are because of this very real issue...attention to focus is going to be a key element in all battles.... what's going on around me right now.. and where is my mind ? in a place it wasn't asked or had my permission to go.. I followed it... it didnt follow me... so who is really in charge ? Its a tricky maneuver the enemy likes to play.... the present moment of where we are is exactly where all else should be