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It is so simple to close our minds to learning of God without being able to discern what is of God and what isn't. We know that faith in the word and not faith in man is paramount. That means that we must not listen to any teacher as superior to scripture, but discern what of his teachings in in line with scripture.
Luther is an example. Many of Luther's teachings opened up understanding of scripture---not because it was Luther's teachings but because by checking his teachings with what the Catholic Church taught at the time, Luther was closer to God. But to follow Luther would be to OK murder of some men because of their teaching and that would not be following scripture.
It is the same way with learning the culture of the men scripture uses to explain. We are not following men when we learn of the world as it was at, for instance, the time of Abraham. We are following the words of scripture first and following that.
We have people on CC who say that they know for sure about what scripture says and others who say they know it is certain it is not the way but another way is right. This means that some people are not reading scripture correctly. It is important that we learn why there is a difference.
The question of whether God changes can be solved this way. First there must be knowledge of every single scripture relating to this question and no scripture said to be more important than another, and no scripture said to cancel another. If we look at every scripture relating to this, some say God changed his mind, some say that God is eternal. Both are equally true. So looking further, we find what is eternal about God and what sort of things God changes his mind about. It is lack of knowledge and lack of faith in His word that makes for arguments and misunderstandings.
Using this method of study would solve all our arguments. It isn't following a man, it is a better way of following God.
Luther is an example. Many of Luther's teachings opened up understanding of scripture---not because it was Luther's teachings but because by checking his teachings with what the Catholic Church taught at the time, Luther was closer to God. But to follow Luther would be to OK murder of some men because of their teaching and that would not be following scripture.
It is the same way with learning the culture of the men scripture uses to explain. We are not following men when we learn of the world as it was at, for instance, the time of Abraham. We are following the words of scripture first and following that.
We have people on CC who say that they know for sure about what scripture says and others who say they know it is certain it is not the way but another way is right. This means that some people are not reading scripture correctly. It is important that we learn why there is a difference.
The question of whether God changes can be solved this way. First there must be knowledge of every single scripture relating to this question and no scripture said to be more important than another, and no scripture said to cancel another. If we look at every scripture relating to this, some say God changed his mind, some say that God is eternal. Both are equally true. So looking further, we find what is eternal about God and what sort of things God changes his mind about. It is lack of knowledge and lack of faith in His word that makes for arguments and misunderstandings.
Using this method of study would solve all our arguments. It isn't following a man, it is a better way of following God.
I understand what scripture tells us about God. Since the Bible is the only linguistic representation we have of the nature of God, we must rely on what God has told us of himself in that revealed document. God reveals much of himself to man in scripture but he certainly does not reveal everything about himself. It is becoming increasing clear that you are nothing but a troll looking for a fight.
B
You say 'fact' yet the bible is full of contradictions and things that have since been chalked down as an allegory, as opposed to a literal thing - under who's authority and with what prerogative I do not know mind - but again I get hit with words that have no place in such a conversation. A true christian would tell me that they have absolutely no proof of the existence of god - it is a matter of faith - yet in such talks as these you can tell me facts. Scripture is man made, written over a period of 900 years, altered, diluted, distorted. And again sir, with all due respect, the word 'cannot' should have no place in a sentence when discussing an all powerful being. If god cannot lie then god is not all powerful. Afterall, how would be be restricted from such a thing if he has always been in existence? And again, how can you speak of gods nature when he is supposedly beyond our comprehension. This is like talking about the nature of a black hole. Purely speculative
M
4or (not) to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith.
5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.
Study Gods word to show thyself approved.
The confusion shall then diminish...albeit little by little.
5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
6Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk.
Study Gods word to show thyself approved.
The confusion shall then diminish...albeit little by little.
God would not need to lie He controls all time and space so He can do whatever.. sooo He's not in a box, he made the box, and the room it's in.. if he wants to move the box, He will, and if he wants to fold the box He will... also in sub atomic physics time and space in a forward linear type motion the way we see it doesn't exist which again coincides with God.. most people won't get what i'm saying there... however, God doesn't need to lie because His word is exactly the way it has to be and firm.. anyhow, there is my assertion of my callaboration of short thoughts
B
A lack of knowledge? You cannot prove god exists. You cannot, yet you talk about a lack of knowledge. The bible spanned 900 years. You were not there to see it compiled, nor was anyone on this forum. But again you talk about knowledge. True knowledge is knowing that you know nothing at all, and in the case of the bible and christianity, this rings especially true. You quote the time of abraham but you weren't there. You can't plausible explain why the quran tells the story of ismael, then how the christian bible tells the same story, with issac and abraham of course. How can you say some people are not reading scripture correctly - this implies that you sir are reading it correctly and that is a bold assumption - how do you know that the people you claim are interpreting the bible wrong are actually the ones who have it right?? You tell yourself you are following gods teachings and therefore everyone else who doesnt see the bible how you do is wrong.
Surely god can change if he wants to - he is afterall an all powerful supernatural being. Why a solid knowledge of the verses relating to this discussion - why do christians forget the other passages of the bible that contradict, create more questions than they answer, diverge from proven historical fact?? God cannot change his mind if he is all knowing - that was my earlier point. The only lack of knowledge can be in what the bible says - not what some people take it to mean, not what some say is allegory and others say is literal, the only knowledge can be in what is written in the bible. There will always be disagreements on how the bible should be taken, it has always been that way, this is why we have different religions, yet everyone who calls themselves christian seems to forget this. Once again sir, I mean all of this with the utmost respect. I am simply speaking to you how I would if we were talking in person. There is not a single shred of hostility within my typing
Surely god can change if he wants to - he is afterall an all powerful supernatural being. Why a solid knowledge of the verses relating to this discussion - why do christians forget the other passages of the bible that contradict, create more questions than they answer, diverge from proven historical fact?? God cannot change his mind if he is all knowing - that was my earlier point. The only lack of knowledge can be in what the bible says - not what some people take it to mean, not what some say is allegory and others say is literal, the only knowledge can be in what is written in the bible. There will always be disagreements on how the bible should be taken, it has always been that way, this is why we have different religions, yet everyone who calls themselves christian seems to forget this. Once again sir, I mean all of this with the utmost respect. I am simply speaking to you how I would if we were talking in person. There is not a single shred of hostility within my typing
B
You have no understanding of the physics you just quoted to me - none at all, just like myself. Once again you are dancing round the point - I didnt 'make' god all powerful. If god is real, then he always was this way. It is very simple - if you slap the label "all powerful' on someone, or on yourself, then you need to live up to it. This is fine. But when you add "all knowing" to the mix, its a different story. He did make the box, so why cant he make something which eludes his understanding - once again we reach a paradox. It makes no sense. And it is not adequate to say "god is beyond human sensibility and understanding" - I didn't assign these qualities, presumably, if he is real, he did
B
And a very simple way of addressing this would be the following - if you are right, and you cant be because god is beyond all of mankinds understanding - could he lie if he wanted to? hypothetically - if god wanted to, could he lie? It is a very simple question and it warrants a very simple answer sir
Nor can you prove he does not exist. You have no regard for the Bible and there is no other place where God has revealed himself linguistically. That being true, you have no other source to understand God at ANY level. You are trying to argue concepts for which you do not even understand the basic concepts. If you want to examine this topic further I can email you our web address and you can read all my studies on triadic reality and the nature of God. Otherwise, I have nothing further to discuss with you.
B
I am not a troll and I am not looking for a fight. Every single time I talk to a christian they are all too happy to express their beliefs, views, reasoning behind godly matters, but when I pose a question or an observation, I get hostility. The most genuine christian I ever spoke to told me simply - I cannot prove god exists - I have mentioned this already. Some christians tell me I am lost, others tell me I am in that place asking for questions because god sent me, but you sir are being hostile because I have questioned what you're saying. This site told me atheists were welcome, welcome to come here and chat, and seeing as I am not here to cause trouble, I don't understand why you would become hostile. I am no more of a troll than you are sir
What you believe and what you decide is only contradictions because you don't understand has nothing at all to do with what is. Man either has the ability to comprehend what is the truth or he doesn't, it doesn't affect the truth at all. Nimrod, the great grandson of Noah decided what was the truth of God and built a nation on what he decided. Hitler did the same thing. History is full of it. Doesn't change a thing, there is still love, rain, sunshine, birds, kindness, and these things will always be an example of truth. So preach away, you aren't making even a small dent in truth. Truth is bigger and more powerful.
B
No, you are quite right, I cannot prove god does not exist but this does not make it a 50/50 split. As science evolves, god runs out of places to hide. And once again, the hostility is present. I come here to try and gain insight - not answers - I seem to realize more than most christians I talk to that I will not get answers - insight is what I'm looking for, something to change my perspective. But when I come across as 'difficult' I get shown the door. This may be rich but I thought it was your christian duty to guide the lost. This is not a cheap jibe to provoke you into entertaining my views, not at all. It's your attitude that makes me say that. I would love nothing more than to have an insightful conversation - [email protected]
M
No but the questions you're asking are irrelevant to the matters at hand
(understanding and getting to know God on your own)
May as well be asking if God has hair
If he does why does he need hair?
What color is his hair?
Can he change his hair color at will?
what the significance?
Nothing.
Open your bible and get to know God on your own.
Ask God to solve the paradox for you.
We dont ask God these things because it has no bearing on our daily matters in knowing and understanding him.
The questions you are asking and trying to understand serve no helpful purpose.
What if God can make a rock that big what if he cant?
what difference does it make on the price of tea in china?
Do we need tea from china
Is tea from china more healthy?
Will it grow in our climate?
If it does will it still be tea from china?
Do you see what I mean?
(understanding and getting to know God on your own)
May as well be asking if God has hair
If he does why does he need hair?
What color is his hair?
Can he change his hair color at will?
what the significance?
Nothing.
Open your bible and get to know God on your own.
Ask God to solve the paradox for you.
We dont ask God these things because it has no bearing on our daily matters in knowing and understanding him.
The questions you are asking and trying to understand serve no helpful purpose.
What if God can make a rock that big what if he cant?
what difference does it make on the price of tea in china?
Do we need tea from china
Is tea from china more healthy?
Will it grow in our climate?
If it does will it still be tea from china?
Do you see what I mean?
It's a very unwise idea to give out any of your personal info on here..You have just effectively given the entire world your email addy.. what gets posted here is seen worldwide..I suggest you contact a moderator and have it removed before you start getting freaky emails from weirdos that you don't want to receive..
B
I'm not trying to preach. Not at all. It would be a sad day if you think I would come to this website in a bid to try and shake your faith. I have talked to more than enough christians to know that if anything, were I to attempt such a thing, it would only make your faith stronger - you after all, as a christian, have already been told to expect persecution. I have better things to do with my time than come onto a side and try to kick up fuss. I am looking for insight, as I have already said, and, again as I have previously mentioned, I am not here to cause offence, to argue in a hostile manner. I expected to have a normal conversation without the jibes, without people telling me I'm a troll, etc etc. Happy to talk until a man such as myself comes along and doesnt immediately accept what he's being told. A sad day indeed. Would I treat someone in this manner if they had my views with regard to bodybuilding - absolutely not - that speaks volumes