Confusion over gods qualities

[RedTent]

Again with the hostility. And again, I do not know what it is that has caused you to think I am not serious about getting answers.. I posted my email address there for a reason sir

For a Christian who is aware of God to give that awareness to another human is very hard. It is done in a different dimension than just our human mind. It is like riding a bike, you either can balance on the bike or you can't.

I spent years, convinced that there was a God but not understanding anything about it. Some people all of a sudden get that understanding from listening in a church or among people who have it. I got it when I disciplined myself to read scripture--back when scripture was as clear to me as Greek would be.

You are trying to reach an understanding of the spiritual truth through the secular truth, and although they are so related that no secular truth contradicts spiritual truth, that approach won't work. What you need is the spiritual truth of the Lord, then you would see that your reasoning could be used. God created all things, if you understand that, you would know that God knows all science. Man is simply finding out the way everything works that God created and knows about. A study of how God made our secular world work will not give you the heart of the Lord.

The heart of the Lord is His plan for us to live with Him in eternity, and when we figure that out, how to live in this world with what, in the original language God spoke to us in, is shalom. Complicated word. You have the net, do look up the meaning of that word.

 

[oldhermit]

There was a typo on post #56 the post should have read, "This is NOT a put down" Somehow the "not" was misplaced in the sentence.

 

[crossnote]

Hi everyone. Again, I would just like to insert this at the start of this post to emphasize that I am sincere in my respect for the fact that everyone has beliefs, or lack of, and I am not here to cause upset, intentionally offend anyone, or cause any other bad feelings towards anyone. This post in entirely serious and I would appreciate some sincere, serious insight in return. Like I said, I'm just a guy.

Okay so please, from the get-go, forgive the childish analogy. I don't feel it needs to be dressed up, sexed up or sugar-coated to get my point across. I'm sure this question has been asked before, or this observation pointed out, but it hasn't for me which is why I'm asking and I hope it will be well received, and with patience.

If god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent - if these are his qualities, as told to man from god, how does this work. Again forgive the immature example here - I was asked a question a while back, quite simply: can god create a puzzle so complex that even he cannot solve it - the paradox immediately became clear to me. I'm hoping someone can shed some sensible light on this for me. If the answer to that - and it could of course be replaced with endless example or scenarios - is yes, then this disproves his all-powerful ability, if the answer is no, then the result is the same.

Not it's not the question itself, my confusion comes from the concept of god being those three things, among others of course, but the all powerful and all-knowing clash with each other fiercely. Why would god have made it known that these were his qualities (if I'm mistaken here I apologize) and create such a conundrum for people like myself?

As I say, it's not my intention to offend, it's my intention to understand. Thanks

A lack of knowledge? You cannot prove god exists. You cannot, yet you talk about a lack of knowledge. The bible spanned 900 years. You were not there to see it compiled, nor was anyone on this forum. But again you talk about knowledge. True knowledge is knowing that you know nothing at all, and in the case of the bible and christianity, this rings especially true. You quote the time of abraham but you weren't there. You can't plausible explain why the quran tells the story of ismael, then how the christian bible tells the same story, with issac and abraham of course. How can you say some people are not reading scripture correctly - this implies that you sir are reading it correctly and that is a bold assumption - how do you know that the people you claim are interpreting the bible wrong are actually the ones who have it right?? You tell yourself you are following gods teachings and therefore everyone else who doesnt see the bible how you do is wrong.

Surely god can change if he wants to - he is afterall an all powerful supernatural being. Why a solid knowledge of the verses relating to this discussion - why do christians forget the other passages of the bible that contradict, create more questions than they answer, diverge from proven historical fact?? God cannot change his mind if he is all knowing - that was my earlier point. The only lack of knowledge can be in what the bible says - not what some people take it to mean, not what some say is allegory and others say is literal, the only knowledge can be in what is written in the bible. There will always be disagreements on how the bible should be taken, it has always been that way, this is why we have different religions, yet everyone who calls themselves christian seems to forget this. Once again sir, I mean all of this with the utmost respect. I am simply speaking to you how I would if we were talking in person. There is not a single shred of hostility within my typing

You title your thread "Confusion over God's Qualities" ask a few questions and then berate and belittle those trying to end your confusion. Oh well.

 

[Karraster]

50% of american christians believe god takes an active role in the outcome of the sporting events they follow - this is fact. So why would god not pursue such things - unless half of the christian population of america are wrong of course? I may have misunderstood but if you are telling me it is impossible for god to lie then he is not all powerful. All powerful means to have no constraints, and on this cosmic level, there would be no constraint from anything, so if god cannot lie god is not all powerful. it would have made much more sense to say that god can lie but is perfect so chooses not to. With regard to point three, with the utmost respect, this is a cop out - something cannot be explained without raising more questions so you simply label it as "beyond our comprehension" - if god loves us all and wants us all to go to heaven, why make so many things out of reach of the human ability to grasp such things as youve mentioned. The answer "it's a test" will not suffice. God, by your understanding, already knows whats going to happen before it happens - why should people with inquisitive minds such as myself spend an eternity in hell because i have the sense to ask questions before accepting such a large claim as this. I seem to always meet the same answer - abandon all sense of curiosity, do not question things you do not understand, just accept it. This makes no sense sir

This statement leads me to believe you don't know much about the laws of physics, or the delicate balance of the universe. Not that I'm very educated in those areas, but I do know there is order and balance, and for that to be so there necessarily are constraints and laws in place. The Creator speaks Covenant and governs accordingly.

 

[Powemm]

Hi Bob... I read your original post and through all the well presented answers.. I also think its pretty awesome you are asking specific questions about who God "himself" is... with that said... I dont think my insight of who God has revealed himself as to me is going to be the same insight he is going to give to you... I say that because he has created each of us for "his" pleasure..so hes going to speak to you in a way "only you" can relate .. because its personal and generating that personal relationship comes from doing exactly what you are doing... seeking to know him better......i dont know you, but I could ask everyone you know who you are.... I would most likely get many different insights , he a many different versions and answers... so my insight of who you really are might be a bit confusing if I dont seek to know who you are outright..... god has told us we " can" approach Him directly... what I can share with you is what ive discovered... like you are doing here in your post... I went to everyone else to find out who God is... It seemed like no one understood any of my questions... i laugh now because god tapped me one day and it was like... "you say you want to know me? Why aren't you coming to me and asking me these questions since its me you want to know about?" God will reveal Himself in the most amazing and simplistic ways...... just keep in mind.... its all about the relationship .... God already knows everything about you.... think about "who" you are asking about him..... I realized God wanted the glory of me knowing Him personally.... ...as is the same for all of us... your looking for the right path ... and that path is a narrow one..but he will part the sea of answers if you start speaking and asking him directly....this post actually made me smile.... im really glad I read it... enjoy your walk with God... share the journey of it with everyone.... peace to you brother

 

[Kaycie]

Mankind has always tried to trap God in His answers. A good example of this is Luke 20:1-8...

20 One day as Jesus was teaching the people in the temple courts and proclaiming the good news, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him. 2 “Tell us by what authority you are doing these things,” they said. “Who gave you this authority?”3 He replied, “I will also ask you a question. Tell me: 4 John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin?”
5 They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Why didn’t you believe him?’ 6 But if we say, ‘Of human origin,’ all the people will stone us, because they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”
7 So they answered, “We don’t know where it was from.”
8 Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

Just because we can't understand how a genius can do something, that does not mean the genius can't. We know that God is all knowing but can choose to remember our sins no more. Just because we can't see how that can be does not mean that it can't be.

 

[AzureAfire]

Hello, all!!!


I don't often post here in the Bible Discussion Forums, but at certain occasions, I am compelled to do so.


bob56789, I don't know if you are truly sincere in trying to clarify what confusions you have with regards to GOD's qualities or attributes. Every true Christian desires to truly know GOD and all that HE is. We seek HIM through earnest daily prayer, reading and studying HIS Holy Word. We can only know GOD if we truly desire HIM and love HIM, worship and adore HIM, and only if HE chooses to reveal Himself to us.


You ask questions that are irrelevant, in my opinion. You ask if GOD can create a puzzle so complex that HE Himself could not solve it, or if HE could create a rock so heavy HE could not lift it. Now, why would HE do such a foolish thing??? What point does HE need to prove to you, or to anyone else??? HE is GOD, and HIS ways are not our ways.


Isaiah 55:8-9Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.


If HE created something which HE cannot undo if HE needs to, then that would mean we have a GOD who makes mistakes. But, no. Our GOD is PERFECT in every way. All HIS actions are wise and true, and have a divine purpose. Just look at creation; how perfect and intricate and complex HIS design is. Science could only begin to explain the wonders of all HIS creation!!! If GOD was imperfect, none of creation would remain to this day, because they all would have broken down in a heap of failure and destruction. But it is not so. HIS design is flawless!!! If things end up becoming imperfect, it's because of sin's corruption, and mans' misuse.


You come here, seeking answers about GOD, as you say. And yet, your mind is closed to what brethren here are sharing. You cannot understand why they seem to know what they're talking about, even though they could not give you the exact response you wish to hear. There are many things revealed to us believers that unbelievers, in the blindness of their unbelief, could never see. That is because HIS Holy Spirit has transformed us when we surrendered our lives to HIM at a certain point in our lives. That point when we have acknowledged that HE is the One True Living GOD that the Bible speaks of. And HE transforms us still, daily. Fashioning us into HIS children of holiness and light. By HIS grace and leading, our eyes are opened to HIS wisdom and truth, and we are given the gifts and the fruits of the Spirit, necessary for our growth on our relationship with HIM, for sharing HIS Word to others, and for edifying HIS Church.


Bob56789, I know it is not an accident that you came to this site. You think you just joined here for your purposes. But I believe this could be an opportunity for you to truly find GOD. If you want answers, no man can satisfy your need. Only GOD can.


Before I became a Christian, I was just a child, curious, with a lot of questions in my head. I was a Catholic then. I asked my folks why we had to do the things we had to do at church, during mass, praying the rosary, and all that. They gave me answers, but for some reason, even though I was a kid who, in my innocence and lack of knowledge, could have just accepted what answers they gave me....for some reason, I knew it didn't make sense. I knew it wasn't the truth, and not right...it was weird. But still, I endeavoredto do what was right in their eyes out of obedience. And I thought maybe, if I became religious enough, then I would experience GOD's presence. I knew nothing about religiosity, holiness, devotion. But I knew, somehow, that GOD should be experienced if HE is real.


But all those years of trying to get close...to know who HE is and what HE was about...they were vain attempts. I knew that GOD is a good GOD and Holy. All powerful. Everywhere. Knows what I'm thinking. Knows what lies ahead. But HE was beyond my reach, it seemed. I knew I could never be good, or righteous, or saint-like, because I saw what my nature was. I didn't want to become holy. To spend my days thinking of HIM and nothing else. I read HIS Word, but it seemed so cold and hard to understand (even though it's in a language I could read). It felt nothing more than a reference book. So I just lived my life, following the motions of the world. Trying not to break any rules. Focusing on me.


But on a fateful night, HE changed my life. HE opened my eyes, and revealed Himself to me And I discovered that HE is real. There were people around me telling me what to believe. There were no verses being read to me. I simply followed someone's advice in the past. He is a Christian, who told me that, when I come to the point when I finally realize I cannot do anything on my own, that I come to GOD, and ask HIM to take over, and be the GOD of my life. And I did, not knowing how to pray, but sincerely asking HIM to be my GOD. In complete surrender. Not knowing if HE actually could hear me, or is there to listen. But I was at the end of my rope, with no hope for tomorrow. I thought then that I had nothing more to lose, should HE not be there after all. This was my only shot.


And HE did. HE became the GOD of my life from then on.


And from that point, everything changed for me. Life suddenly made sense. I no longer felt alone, even in the hardest and most trying times of my life. Suddenly, when I read HIS Word, I understood what is written there. Even though there was no other person there to teach me. I saw that HIS Word was so sweet and beautiful, and alive!!! And everyday, HE reveals more of the awesome treasures and wonders that HIS Holy Word contains, leaving me breathless, humbled, grateful, and in awe of HIM and I'm sure HE has touched my fellow brethren in such a profound and deep way as well, as we devote ourselves to HIM and HIS Word.


If you want to experience GOD just as we have, then you have to truly acknowledge that HE is GOD. To trust with childlike faith that HE hears your call. Seek HIM in sincere prayer, and in reading HIS Word.


You could also read works by Christian authors who treat the study of HIS Holy truth with great care, reverence and awe. I'll share to you here a link to the work of A.W. Pink, as he devoted a study on the attributes of GOD:


The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-Preface and Foreword


GOD bless you on your genuine pursuit to understand HIM


If you're a troll, though...it's your loss.


I leave you with a favorite, life-changing Bible verse:



Matthew 6:33Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Red_Tory]

So I can take a popcorn kernel, put it in a pan and heat it until it turns into popcorn - does this make me god? To cook an egg I would need to put it in a pot, add water and turn the heat on. I don't have to do any of those things, does that make me god too? And on another note, because I was being deadly serious there, where has the assumption that "god being all powerful is a MISTAKEN assumption" came from? I have literally just realized that I could sit here for a week, ask the same question and get so many answers, many of which would contradict themselves and the reasoning behind which they came from. I get bombarded with scripture OR nonsense on a regular basis, even when I ask to be spoken to normally, in laymans terms - given that I am an atheist. Does it happen though, of course not

Is this directed towards me?

 

[robbomango]

How can an all knowing God create something he does not know the answer to? The question posed is a logical contradiction Bob. There is no correct answer because it isn't possible. God can't create square circles, married bachelors, rocks so big he can lift them etc etc etc...

He's all powerful not all illogical.

Peace and may God bless you on your path

 

[jjtj22]

How much does the color blue weigh?

What sound does the number 184 make?

Bob, you ask nonsensical questions and get angry and berate good people who try to point you to the Only One with answers.

Beware being told the truth, one of two things will happen, your heart will grow more hardened to the truth or (preferably) you fall down the rabbit hole and your entire way of thinking gets dumped on its head.

 

[Yahshua]

How can an all knowing God create something he does not know the answer to? The question posed is a logical contradiction Bob. There is no correct answer because it isn't possible. God can't create square circles, married bachelors, rocks so big he can lift them etc etc etc...

He's all powerful not all illogical.

Peace and may God bless you on your path

I'd like to expand on this point if it's ok...

Omnipotence = ALL Power. The concept - at its core - implies there is a "scale of power"...and God is at the height of it; the maximum level of the measurement. Always. And logic dictates that there is a "limit" to all the power that's possible on that scale...and that limit is God.

This doesn't weaken God but points out that he is the "standard" by which everything else is measured as less powerful (i.e. weak). The adjective doesn't gauge him. It gauges everything else in comparison to him.

The faulty understanding of Omnipotence creates a false idea of an ever-changing God, by necessity...so instead of taking a pie chart (which would represent God's power, for instance) and saying "God is the whole pie", we incorrectly imagine God's power as an ever-expanding pie that can *never* stop growing else "omni" that power is not.

This incorrect concept leads to the faulty argument that if God's power *does* have a limit then he's *not* all powerful. But all one has to do to break this paradoxical thinking is ask themselves, "by who's measurement is God omnipotent? By our measurement for him...or by God's measurement for us?" Hopefully, that should bring one's thinking back to the humble truth: God is who weighs man.

From this truth everything else neatly falls into place: God is changeless, he doesn't change his mind, he's perfect/complete (not lacking in anything; he's the scale of all resource), he's eternal (without beginning or end of life; the scale of life itself), he's omniscient (without ignorance; the scale of knowledge), he's omnipresent (everywhere; the scale of space), thus immaterial (because if he were "physically" omnipresent the laws of the physical universe dictate that there would be no room for us or anything else in existence), and he can't lie (because he is all truth; the scale of all that "is" and nothing that "is not"). God is who/that he is; Yah.

Again, all of these measurements have a real logical limit to them and that limit is God himself.