Connecting the Dots . . .

[Therapon]

The bible doesnt matter. right?

Of course the Bible matters, including the verses that don't fit your doctrine like Romans 11:11 . . .

"Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles."

SO the Jews were blinded for the sake of the Gentile church. I suppose you don't like the following verses either, unless you spin them to mean other than what they say . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29, NASB

It would be a lot easier to just agree with you guys. We could then go back to defending our doctrinal turf and debating meaningless doctrinal minutia, but we are discussing the eternal future of the millions of Jews we Christians have murdered during the Christian era so it is important. You are saying God lost millions His covenant people during this era, and I am saying He didn't, but for you to believe that, you need to accept at face value those verses you don't like.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is not good to conduct oneself as though he or she is now reigning without the King returning first to pass out any crowns to His saved. Judgment of any man now is reigning in advance of the Kingdom. We are not to judge any man, the Jew first and then the Greek.

 

[Abiding]

Of course the Bible matters, including the verses that don't fit your doctrine like Romans 11:11 . . .

"Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles."

SO the Jews were blinded for the sake of the Gentile church. I suppose you don't like the following verses either, unless you spin them to mean other than what they say . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29, NASB

It would be a lot easier to just agree with you guys. We could then go back to defending our doctrinal turf and debating meaningless doctrinal minutia, but we are discussing the eternal future of the millions of Jews we Christians have murdered during the Christian era so it is important. You are saying God lost millions His covenant people during this era, and I am saying He didn't, but for you to believe that, you need to accept at face value those verses you don't like.

Im sorry nothing in Romans doest fit my doctrine. What a sleezy sidewipe job you do discussing.
Therapon if your trying to provoke me by saying im blind to whats written do your best, but really
im having no trouble seeing all thats written in the text.

Ok who are the Christians that killed jews? and who are the jews that killed christians.
do you want to go there? if you do youl lose big time.

but back at the ranch...we have romans to deal with and what the Holyspirit is saying.

Therepon im not sure why you even post to me. Its obvious to me you havnt read my posts.
Not one has been lost. Its just that they were saved Gods way, not yours.

 

[Therapon]

What does "to this day" mean? 2000 years later. You didnt read the chapter from the OT i gave you from where Paul quoted that from. You didnt read it. So dont say they didnt reject Him. Theres too much scripture to believe that. Jesus told me why...what your saying you pulled out of your ear.

Sure Paul quoted it, but then in later verses, Paul through the Holy Spirit gives his conclusion. So do we accept the intro or the conclusion?

"To this day," of course, because that is when Paul is writing, but history shows that the Jews as a people continued blind to the Gospel throughout the Christian era. If God did take the blindness away, the Jews as a people could accept the Gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Stop blaming me, God is the one who inspired Romans 11:8 so take it up with Him . . .
"According as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."

And they did not reject Him, read my post to Abiding.

Your kidding??, They crucified him! That is not rejecting him?

It was their blindness which caused them to not believe, they blinded themselves because they thought the messiah would free them from rome, not save them, they did not think they needed a savior.

You need to understand what hardening ones heart means. The OT shows us, when God said give them the truth so the seeing they may not see,, and hearing they may not here this is what it means to harden ones heart.

They had (have) the OT, they should have seen Christ, but they did not, Jesus kept putting truth in their faces. and the more he did the angrier they got.. This is what it looks like when you harden your heart. or go blind.

 

[Therapon]

But back at the ranch...we have romans to deal with and what the Holyspirit is saying.
Therepon im not sure why you even post to me.

Of course I've read your posts, every word of them. What do you think I am replying to? <grin> But I have a rather simple mind so I only address one point per post. Soleets go back a bit, you say all Jews aof the Christian era are lost of they do not accept Jesus as their savior. In another breath you say you agree with every verse in Romans, well . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are elect for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29.

That's what the Bible says, what say you?

 

[zone]

You truly do not understand, the Jews are not rejecting their Messiah, they are still looking for him. However, according to Romans 11:8, they have not been allowed to know that He has already been here once.

Menachem Begin was in the Warsaw ghetto during World War II. He watched as 500 Jews, including his beloved mother and father, were driven into the Warsaw River and machine gunned down by the Nazis. As their blood was was pouring out of them, those dear suffering people, with their hands raised toward heaven, were singing that beautiful Jewish hymn, “Oh, how we love our Messiah, and long for his appearance.”

Did you really hear that? “Oh, how we love our Messiah, and long for his appearance.”

When I heard Menachem’s account, I knew in my spirit that Jews could be saved during the Christian era without knowing Jesus name, but according you guys, they are going to hell because they didn’t. I have to admit, the blind bigotry of the church makes me truly ill.

oh...well who can argue with such an emotionally charged account (by a notorious Irgun terrorist)....when the people in the story sing about 'our messiah'.

throw the word Nazi in there, and....okay....you have permission to rewrite the Plan of God and undermine the PERSON and Work of JESUS CHRIST:

You truly do not understand, the Jews are not rejecting their Messiah, they are still looking for him. However, according to Romans 11:8, they have not been allowed to know that He has already been here once.

not been allowed to know.
well that's amazing because they DO know about Jesus.
they just say no thanks.

When I heard Menachem’s account, I knew in my spirit that Jews could be saved during the Christian era without knowing Jesus name, but according you guys, they are going to hell because they didn’t. I have to admit, the blind bigotry of the church makes me truly ill.

the Church's Commission is the Gospel of Jesus Christ Crucified and Risen for the forgiveness of sins, for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.

if you call that bigotry, take it up with JESUS CHRIST.

 

[zone]

One more time, “Oh, how we love our Messiah, and long for his appearance,” and that hymn wasn't written by the tooth fairy.

any idea how many messiahs have showed up on the scene since 70AD, ellis?

Sabbatai Zevi
Ya'akov Frank
Menachem Mendel Schneerson
etc etc

why do they have such success?
because the little kids are kept away from the Torah where they might see JESUS.
and you're helping.

Luke 19:14
"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

Luke 20:16
He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!"

 

[zone]

It would be a lot easier to just agree with you guys. We could then go back to defending our doctrinal turf and debating meaningless doctrinal minutia, but we are discussing the eternal future of the millions of Jews we Christians have murdered during the Christian era so it is important. You are saying God lost millions His covenant people during this era, and I am saying He didn't, but for you to believe that, you need to accept at face value those verses you don't like.

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
and what are you referring to exactly anyways?
i thought you said the Holocaust was the Valley of Dry Bones - which means YOU have it ordained by g-d, just like Rabbis today are trying to do.

THOSE jews somehow paid for the sins of the Nation!!!

God's Covenant people are NEW COVENANT PEOPLE - jew and gentile.

only heretics teach there's any other covenant.

and if you want to talk numbers of Covenant people murdered - go to Bolshevism and count the CHRISTIAN DEAD. count the Christian American DEAD in these wars for Israel! oh no.....don't talk about THAT.

eh.....this shame-blame-inflame-game to stop people from saying what Scripture says is BOGUS.

 

[Therapon]

In an earlier post to Abiding I inadvertantly misquoted Scripture. Here is the correction . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29.

 

[peterT]

In an earlier post to Abiding I inadvertantly misquoted Scripture. Here is the correction . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29.

It doesn’t say the Jews are saved in them verses, and we are all beloved for the fathers' sake.

And every knee will bow and every tongue confess one day.


And the gifts and calling of God are without repentance but you still have to harken unto the Lord and his word to get them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In an earlier post to Abiding I inadvertantly misquoted Scripture. Here is the correction . . .

"As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your (Gentile believers) sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:28-29.

The jews are enemies, because they are enemies of the gospel until they repent.

And you think enemies of the gospel will get to heaven..wow!!

 

[Therapon]

Your kidding??, They crucified him! That is not rejecting him?

Let me tell you about the loving heart of the Creator of the Universe, our holy, perfect, sinless God. I, personally and by myself crucified Jesus! Point being, if I were the only person who ever sinned, Jesus would have still died. Here is an incident that took place during Jesus' trial that is well worth thinking about . . .

Matthew 27:24-25 “When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed His hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, ‘His blood be on us, and on our children.’”

I need the blood of Jesus every day of my flawed life, because not a day passes that I don’t fall short of the glory of God. And God heard the above from the Pharisees, too, who as leaders of the people represented all Jewry. No doubt they thought they were uttering a curse, but I’m not sure God saw it that way. He saw them asking that the blood of His son be applied to His wayward people, which must have happened because . . .

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified.” Matthew 12:37

 

[Therapon]

The jews are enemies, because they are enemies of the gospel until they repent.
And you think enemies of the gospel will get to heaven..wow!!

You need to study the word "elect."

 

[susanblange]

History repeats itself and a lot of prophecies have a dual fulfillment

 

[Therapon]

It doesn’t say the Jews are saved in them verses.

Yes it does and you too need to study the word elect.

 

[susanblange]

The multitudes that followed Jesus had him crucified at Jesus' behest. He always said, "Take up your cross and follow me" Jesus wanted to be crucified because it would fulfill scripture. If the Jews had had their way, they would've stoned him to death.

 

[susanblange]

The "elect" is not a race, it is a religion.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

The jews are enemies, because they are enemies of the gospel until they repent.

And you think enemies of the gospel will get to heaven..wow!!

Romans 11:28

"As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake."

 

[peterT]

Yes it does and you too need to study the word elect.

And you need to study the basic Bible doctrine on salvation and get that in order first


1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.




Basic Bible Milk, and you think you know the meat???.


1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.