Could churches do better with unpaid pastors?

[ember]

Would you do better with an unpaid doctor? One that allows his surgical team to jump in and cut and sew when they feel led to do so?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

LOL!...well that sews it up

 

[ember]

1 Timothy 5:18 KJVS
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Fine and good, but when I see the ox take three or four ocean cruises a year and living way above the other cattle, it's time for me to moo-ve on

well...there is that too

there are always going to be people who abuse their positions...always

my personal gripe are the churches that stop having prayer or Bible study cause it's summer...like God and the devil take a holiday during those times and everything stops

the only one that really wants that time off, is usually the pastor who prob should not have been a pastor in the first place

the church I grew up in did not have a full time pastor...it had elders who took turn preaching...were not paid...and the whole thing worked very well...I would gladly attend a church like that again if I could find one

 

[Yet]

Ephesians 4

11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That wehenceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


Shalom

Now you're getting it.....FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY!

 

[bikerchaz]

Jesus puts us in families, Most of us think of our church as a family, a large family consists of about 20 to 40 in all, usually about 3 generations, small ones about of about 4 to 8 depending on age and children. Families work because of what they are, at the centre is a core of love that radiates out to all the members and that is radiated back it's like a radiator for love re-cycling and re-energising the love to make more, to be involved is wonderful.

A family of over 50 is destined for trouble, not because they don't love each other, but to stay close with that many people is just not possible, someone somewhere will not get the love or attention they need because a lot of them will be in need of/for something. I understand large churches give out jobs for others to take care of those in need one way or another, but how long before a job just becomes a job, and love becomes a duty?

Tiny church congregations are almost always insignificant towards gospel effectiveness outside their own homes, compared to larger well organized churches. The small church pastors I know, about 70 of them, that work a secular job for a living come home as tired as anyone else doing that, with little or no energy to tend to family and tend to serious ministry. They mostly tend to funerals. There's no way around that for one's congregation.

This is a bit of a sweeping statement from Word_swordsman, and not a well thought out one. The cell church scenario has bloomed within South Korea and in the early church, thousands were added daily.

The post of apostle was a defined one and it did need supporting through money given for that cause, even Jesus Himself helped Peter start His apostolic ministry, but for the established Church there was no such provision made or entertained. The Church looked after the Church, Jesus led them, He gave them the living water flowing directly from Him through His Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit producing fruit in its season that fed and matured the whole Church. I know this way is unfathomable for some to grasp, but is God not as powerful as He was? Has Jesus lost any authority given to Him? Does He not still overflow with the living waters we all crave for? Or do we like a comfortable life and not to rock the boat?

"Our pastor does a wonderful job I am not going to knock him", and neither am I, All the shepherds who look after Gods flock do a wonderful job on the most part, but they have been brought up with "church systems", including going to seminary and learning how to become a church leader. Where is that in scripture? I have had some not break bread with me because I have not done so.

Paul gave Timothy a way to find elders for the Church, not full time paid positions because they were not needed, and Jesus promised that The Holy Spirit would take from what is of Him and make it known to us! The gifts and fruit of the Spirit of God taught the Church, else what is the point of "testing the Spirit"?

My first post in this thread was only picked up on by a few, and I don't expect this one will find much favour either, but I had to say. When we all stand before God and give account, I can say I followed the Spirits prompting in me to write this, have you listened? what you do with it is up to you.
God bless

 

[Word_Swordsman]

1 Timothy 5:18 KJVS
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Fine and good, but when I see the ox take three or four ocean cruises a year and living way above the other cattle, it's time for me to moo-ve on

If you visited our church you'd be missing a blessing, as our pastors prosper from their own hands, minister full time, and are an inspiration for the benefits of tithing and generous giving. Why complain about how they spend blessings God lets them have, while few of us question sports contracts of 80 million per 5 years? We say "Well, they entertain us, and work hard to be the best." Millions a year to play ball......

I have not been impressed yet by a preacher that's apparently living in poverty, unable to be of help to anyone else, except maybe a helping hand holding a board to be cut. Their sheep tend to be spiritually skinny, always very needy, the offering plate so light as to wonder "why bother?"

The best way out of poverty is to work and give. God delights to bless for that. Lacking in either side of that has no scriptural basis for financial blessing. A righteous pastor will teach the scriptures concerning money and the heart of giving, giving the congregation hope of prospering enough to help feed another family, pay a light bill for another, put some gas in a struggling single mom's tank, at least fork up that $6 she came short on in the grocery checkout.

 

[crossnote]

If you visited our church you'd be missing a blessing, as our pastors prosper from their own hands, minister full time, and are an inspiration for the benefits of tithing and generous giving. Why complain about how they spend blessings God lets them have, while few of us question sports contracts of 80 million per 5 years? We say "Well, they entertain us, and work hard to be the best." Millions a year to play ball......

I have not been impressed yet by a preacher that's apparently living in poverty, unable to be of help to anyone else, except maybe a helping hand holding a board to be cut. Their sheep tend to be spiritually skinny, always very needy, the offering plate so light as to wonder "why bother?"

The best way out of poverty is to work and give. God delights to bless for that. Lacking in either side of that has no scriptural basis for financial blessing. A righteous pastor will teach the scriptures concerning money and the heart of giving, giving the congregation hope of prospering enough to help feed another family, pay a light bill for another, put some gas in a struggling single mom's tank, at least fork up that $6 she came short on in the grocery checkout.

This is more along my line of thinking...

1Ti_3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti_3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Tit_1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit_1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
1Pe_5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

'Filthy lucre'...

694 αἰσχροκερδῶς adverb; covetously, greedily, with eagerness for dishonest gain (1P 5.2) Friberg

25.26 αἰσχροκερδής, ές; αἰσχροκερδῶς: pertaining to being shamefully greedy for material gain or profit — ‘shamefully greedy, greedily.’ Louw & Nida

 

[SalvationSoldier]

As the wife of a Pastor I have been on both side of this. When my husband was interning and doing his job unpaid he was not able to put the amount of time he needed to into his calling because he still needed to support his family. So he had to work a full time job. What I witnessed was a man who went to work 40-50 hours a week so he could honor his responsibility to his wife and children, only to come home and serve the church as much as he could. He would go to bed each night and I would hear him pray for forgiveness because he spent so many hours working to pay bills that he felt like he was not doing the Lords work. Finally, he was called to Pastor at a church that he gets paid at which is paid to do. That being said Pastor is not limited preaching. He works 6 days a week, and keeps 9am -4pm office hours Monday- Thurs. His job description includes inner-city outreach events for the downtown area, low income housing outreach, Upwards Sport coaching, Over seeing over 20 small group leaders, and 4 Sunday school classes. 3 nursing home studies a week, the high school mentoring program where they help highschool student learn a trade, elementary tutoring. These are every week duties. Then there are the counseling appt, hospital visits, weddings, funerals, and those times when people just need their Pastor. There is no plausible way he could do these things without a paid church position because there would be no time to earn income, and I know he would never feel like he was doing enough ministry if he couldn't do them. So while I do believe that it is acceptable to have a preacher who is not paid, ( I have seen my hubby and several other awesome leaders jump at the chance to do it because that in itself was payment enough) I do not believe that it is beneficial to not pay Pastors who care for a flock day and night every day and night. I know I am partial to paid Pastors because I am a PW but I do want to say we have made an agreement to go where ever God says no matter what the pay is and have paid every debt we have to insure that we can make it on very little without having to take a second job that would take time from growing our ministry. When he got his very first job we made $400.00 for 3 years with three children. We ate very cheaply and God never let any utilities get shut off, but when they wanted to pay us more we just couldn't take it because we knew that it would begin draining the churches savings. I wanted to share so you didn't mistake my heart when I say pay Pastors.

 

[Chester]

Actually, I am one of two pastors (we also have one deacon) that were ordained from within our church body of about 15 families. One monthly love offering is split between the three of us -- it has worked well. Yes, I work 3-4 days per week, and I enjoy the work I do, and I enjoy the pastoral work and I enjoy working with my copastor and our deacon.

Hmmm, so you propose having multiple pastor positions from among the men of the congregation, but not let one of them earn his living from preaching the gospel, ministering without a living from the gospel, while you are out earning a living?

Since it's your idea, opposed to God's plan (Jesus our Lord ordained the scriptural way in 1 Cor 9:14), be sure you be the first to volunteer to help fill the pastoral ministry, assuming you are called to that office by God.

What you might be thinking about Acts is the assignment of deacons to wait tables while Peter and the other apostles tended to the spiritual things.

Will you find that many men in the congregation that are called to that ministry? If called, then why not already somewhere filling that office? How many pastors have arisen from your congregation, called of God? Your pastors will serve, but only get to earn a living 3-4 days a week, then hope a monthly gift will make up the gap? What man with a family would be comfortable risking that move from his 5 day a week job, when apparently they do so on the strength of an unbiblical denominational church doctrine? If leaving a 5 day a week job, who would hire him at the same skill for 3-4 days?

Many questions not needful of answers, but for simple consideration.

I will believe and agree with what the Lord has ordained. His plans are always best. Satan is the one who would of course defy the plan of God, with the intent of shutting down yet another church, leaving the sheep scattered and starving.

Sheep feeding is a sign of love for Jesus and sheep. It isn't a task for a novice.

 

[notuptome]

As the wife of a Pastor I have been on both side of this. When my husband was interning and doing his job unpaid he was not able to put the amount of time he needed to into his calling because he still needed to support his family. So he had to work a full time job. What I witnessed was a man who went to work 40-50 hours a week so he could honor his responsibility to his wife and children, only to come home and serve the church as much as he could. He would go to bed each night and I would hear him pray for forgiveness because he spent so many hours working to pay bills that he felt like he was not doing the Lords work. Finally, he was called to Pastor at a church that he gets paid at which is paid to do. That being said Pastor is not limited preaching. He works 6 days a week, and keeps 9am -4pm office hours Monday- Thurs. His job description includes inner-city outreach events for the downtown area, low income housing outreach, Upwards Sport coaching, Over seeing over 20 small group leaders, and 4 Sunday school classes. 3 nursing home studies a week, the high school mentoring program where they help highschool student learn a trade, elementary tutoring. These are every week duties. Then there are the counseling appt, hospital visits, weddings, funerals, and those times when people just need their Pastor. There is no plausible way he could do these things without a paid church position because there would be no time to earn income, and I know he would never feel like he was doing enough ministry if he couldn't do them. So while I do believe that it is acceptable to have a preacher who is not paid, ( I have seen my hubby and several other awesome leaders jump at the chance to do it because that in itself was payment enough) I do not believe that it is beneficial to not pay Pastors who care for a flock day and night every day and night. I know I am partial to paid Pastors because I am a PW but I do want to say we have made an agreement to go where ever God says no matter what the pay is and have paid every debt we have to insure that we can make it on very little without having to take a second job that would take time from growing our ministry. When he got his very first job we made $400.00 for 3 years with three children. We ate very cheaply and God never let any utilities get shut off, but when they wanted to pay us more we just couldn't take it because we knew that it would begin draining the churches savings. I wanted to share so you didn't mistake my heart when I say pay Pastors.

Thank you. Thank you. And thank you again.

Ask the sick on their hospital beds and the shut in living in nursing homes who feel forgotten if they believe pastors should be supported by the church.

Men who are gifted to the church are the men who serve many hours a week tending to the congregation God has given them.

Hard job and yet so rewarding. One that you feel like no one appreciates you but God knows all about it.

Thank you for your ministry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Word_Swordsman]

This is more along my line of thinking...

1Ti_3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti_3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Tit_1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit_1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
1Pe_5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

'Filthy lucre'...

694 αἰσχροκερδῶς adverb; covetously, greedily, with eagerness for dishonest gain (1P 5.2) Friberg

25.26 αἰσχροκερδής, ές; αἰσχροκερδῶς: pertaining to being shamefully greedy for material gain or profit — ‘shamefully greedy, greedily.’ Louw & Nida

In those I see a list that should not be cherry-picked.

1. Taking oversight over the congregation. That's no job for a novice, or part-timer. If any part-timer is given oversight over anything, then someone else has to take over part-time, or there is no oversight.

2. No mind-dullling distractions, inappropriate amounts and timng of wine a big probl;em back then, while these days it might include internet addiction....

3. Blameless. That's huge.

4. Not self-willed, which includes at least obeying the Lord in everything, not deciding to do it his way regardless of God's plan.

5. The list goes on and on, including always holding true to the gospel Paul preached. The standard for pastors and deacons seem to exceed that for most jobs Americans work at. So I'll go on in to greediness for filthy lucre. Some attorneys at law are prone to that, suing anything that moves. TV ads call for possible victims of side effects of medicines. Yes, we've all seen too much emphasis on TV for more money, sell your car to get it to them, trust God to pay your bills so you can send your money in, etc. I can agree there are signs of possible greediness for filthy lucre all over TV, but not necessarily among all TV ministries. Many humbly and very briefly ask for a little per month, any amount appreciated. Should they stop ministering on TV since TV is costly to produce? Should a pastor go into debt to provide electronic media ministry? SHould he pay the expenses of a church he has oversight over?

I think for purposes of the OP, it would be reasonable to leave this one open-ended with: Is a Christian greedy if taking his living from a congregation that has called him or her to full time oversight, which church has already decided they will pay a salary?

Is a Christian pastor greedy for collecting a profit of $1.23 profit from sale of his increasingly popular book? He paid a publisher to market it, the cost based on expected numbers of sales, and the distributor gets his share for handling. If the pastor says sell at zero profit, then the costs rise $0.50 each right before another million copies sell, is he wise enough to have oversight over anyone else? He could go a half million in losses, ruining his life, forcing bankruptcy. The alternative is to make sure he has wealth instead of indebtedness. Is he greedy for getting wealthy from that enterprise?

Where does the Bible command that a pastor with legal, clean wealth ought not enjoy it? Ecclesiastes approves of a man enjoying the results of his labors, also sleeping well.

Is it possible for me to be covetous by resenting how someone spends their own wealth? Isn't that really between the wealthy person and God? If so, why judge a pastor enjoying blessings galore from God? If he obeys the Lord he has promises of abundant life in every category of life on earth. If he can demonstrate what pleases God toward possessing his blessings, might that inspire others to follow in his steps?

What blessing is there in being less than wealthy to the point of poverty? Poverty is a curse, not a blessing. Without blessings, none can be of significant help. The Bible teaches us to beware becoming rich, but doesn't forbid it. Sure, there are dangers to consider, like forgetting God. Once warned it might be the Lord has some people in mind who he knows will use wealth for mighty ministry.

 

[SalvationSoldier]

I have never heard of one in my area of the US

 

[Marcelo]

Some 30 years ago I started attending a church (here in Brazil) whose ministers were unpaid. I was amazed at their frankness to preach the true Gospel. A few months later I tried another local church of the same denomination and was very disappointed.

Unpaid preachers can be excellent and can be deadly. There is no garantee that an unpaid preacher will preach the whole truth. They're not looking for money, but some may be just looking for fame and don't have Bible knowledge.

I accept both paid and unpaid pastors, provided they preach the truth.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Well unpaid pastors would be unbiblical. How did Jesus and His disciples eat?

 

[Zmouth]

Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee. Matt 17:27

 

[Zmouth]

Is a Christian pastor greedy for collecting a profit of $1.23 profit from sale of his increasingly popular book? He paid a publisher to market it, the cost based on expected numbers of sales, and the distributor gets his share for handling. If the pastor says sell at zero profit, then the costs rise $0.50 each right before another million copies sell, is he wise enough to have oversight over anyone else? He could go a half million in losses, ruining his life, forcing bankruptcy. The alternative is to make sure he has wealth instead of indebtedness. Is he greedy for getting wealthy from that enterprise?

Goes to the parable of the sower, the seed is the Word of God, which one might say is the truth, thus the reason the one who understand is blessed as written in Matthew 13:23. While the Gospel is freely given (See Proverbs 23:23) a man can receive nothing unless it is given unto him from heaven (LORD). Hence the passage in Matthew 10:40 regarding receiving.

Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. Luke 8:18

Where do you cast you mites, in the foxes, in the Church treasury or in the sower?


Hopefully you say the Word.

 

[Yet]

Chuches did fine in the first few centuries without the single self exalting pastor period. They turned their world upside down for Christ.

Today the world has turned the 'church' upside down for satan.

 

[presidente]

Since some CC members have complaints about modern day churches, I'd like to put the following question: Could churches do better if they had unpaid rather than salaried pastors? I've seen some unpaid pastors preach; some of them were really guided by the Holy Spirit while others did a poor job due to lack of Bible knowledge. The upside of not being paid is that ministers have more freedom to preach the narrow way, but what's the downside?

One thing to keep in mind is our modern role of 'pastor' is not explicitly Biblical. I mean the way it is set up, the traditional pastoral duties, etc. aren't really laid out in scripture and in some cases are different from what we see in scripture.

One pastor?
We don't see the apostles appointing just one leader in a church and calling him 'the pastor'. We see the apostles appointing a group of elders (or 'older men') and charging them to pastor the flock of God (e.g. I Peter 5, Acts 20:28.) Elders are referred to as 'bishops' (or 'overseers'- Acts 20:28, c.f. Titus 1.) In English, translators translated a Greek verb form that is closely related to poimen, the Greek word translated 'pastor' as 'feed' or 'tend' which obscures the relationship to the Greek word 'poimen'. Some translations tell the elders to shepherd the church/church of God in Acts 20 and I Peter 5.

We don't see the apostles appointing just one of them. They appointed a group of them. There is no evidence that one was called the 'senior pastor' and put over the rest of them. There is no reference to a 'senior pastor' or 'associate pastor' in scripture. I Peter 5 mentions the 'chief Pastor', but that is a reference to Christ.

In the 1800's, it became common to refer to the epistles to Timothy and Titus as 'pastorals', but these men are never called 'pastors' in scripture. They were likely doing work similar to the apostles Paul and Barnabas, travelling from place to place preaching, teaching and strengthening new churches, and appointing elders. Titus and Timothy were to appoint elders/bishops. The text does not say that either of them was to settle down and be the local bishop. There is a tradition that Timothy was the bishop of evidence, but the Bible doesn't teach this. And reading writings from a few centuries later, it seems likely that later expositors may have re-cast the role of some Biblical characters into the mold of their then-current church government system which had one 'bishop' in every city over a group of elders. But Paul called the elders of the church in Ephesus 'bishops' and saluted 'bishops' (plural) in the opening of his epistle to the Philippians.

Paul tells Timothy to 'do the work of an evangelist' and apparently refers to himself, Silvanus, and Timothy as 'apostles of Christ' (I Thess. 1:1, 2:6-7.)

Appointed from within the Congregation
In Acts 14, Paul and Barnabas appointed elders from within local churches. Paul told Titus to appoint elders in every city. The elders came from within their own communities. In many denominations, pastors are brought in from the outside and serve as hire professionals. If finances don't work out for them or some better opportunity arises, the pastor may move to another city. The elders the apostles appointed were raised up from within their own churches, a part of the local community already. The people knew them and likely knew enough about their lifestyles to know if they fit the Biblical requirements listed in I Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

Historical Sources of Confusion
The English word priest derived from presbuteros, the Greek word for elder. But the word came to be used for the Old Testament descendants of Aaron. New Testament presbuteros correspond with Old Testament zaqenim-- elders, not the kohenim, the descendants of Aaron (though I can't say that a qualified priest might not also have served as an elder.) The Anglo Saxon mission evangelized the Germans, back when Anglo-Saxon and mainland Saxon were mutually intelligible. German had certain church vocabulary words that were cognate with those used in English. 'Priest' and its German equivalent were messy words. Were the church clergymen priests? Were they the same thing as what the Old Testament called 'priests', those sacrifice-offering descendants of Aaron. Luther wrote of the 'priesthood of all believers', but did not believe that all believers were elders.

So the church in the Reformation in Geneva Switzerland renamed their clergymen to be 'pastors'-- or that's our English equivalent. Since they sought to have a Christian government, they looked for models from church history and found that Greek speaking communities in North Africa and Syria in the 4th century had 'garousia'-- elders. So they named their city government officials 'elders.' In their society, church and state were mixed, and these officials were very much involved in church-related matters. John Knox praised John Calvin and the 'school of Christ' in Geneva. The Scottish took the Geneva model and blew it up on a national level to be Presbyterianism. They took the city official of 'elder' and turned it into a national church office.

That is where we get the extra-biblical nonpastoral board elder from and the unbiblical distinction between 'pastor' and 'elder. The Scottish Presbyterians, at first, used verses about Biblical elders to refer to their pastors, not their 'elders.' But over time, this changed. And many other denominations absorbed the model of the Presbyterians. The

The Job of Pastors
Pastors are to tend the flock. Pastor means shepherd, and literal shepherds don't usually give 45 minutes talks one minute a week to their livestock (I assume). But many westerners think this is THE job of a pastor, the main job.

But if we look the Bible, there is no evidence that a church service must consist of an opening prayer, songs, offering, sermon, (communion), songs, and a closing prayer. Many people think the sermon is the central part of the meeting, but where does the Bible teach we must have this. We have one long passage that deals with what to do in church, I Corinthians 14, two if you could the long chapter on how not to do communion, I Corinthians 11. I Corinthians 14 tells us 'when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.' (v. 26.) The passage encourages all to prophesy, and deals with how to speak in tongues, interpret, and prophesy in an edifying manner. The underlying assumption is that the church meeting will be filled with members of the congregation taking turns speaking to edify the body. There is no mention of a pastor or elder in the whole chapter, and no reference to a sermon.

How This Relates to Payment
We need to stop thinking in terms of paying one man to speak every week and bringing in a hired gun from the outside. We need to consider the cultural context. It is very different if we think of the apostles appointing a group of older men who already had some way to earn a living somehow, to lead and pastor in the local assembly. They could already survive financially before they were appointed. Then, the church should honor those who rule well, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. This is a different scenario from the hired religious professional we see so often these days.

 

[KohenMatt]

My Father-in-Law is the head Pastor at our church and doesn't get paid. He's retired from his career.
I'm the Associate Pastor and I don't get paid. I have a full-time job that pays my salary.

The issue of salary vs. no salary isn't important. What is important is what do the pastors do with the ministry they've been given. Is my retired father-in-law with no salary more effective in ministry than someone who is salaried? It depends on the fruit. Is a pastor who is paid full-time more effective than myself who works outside the church and receives no salary? Again, it depends on the fruit.

Just because someone works full-time for a church doesn't make them a more effective pastor.

 

[oldethennew]

you are so right KohenMatt,

for their hearts must be broken and contrite and in total submission to their Creator...
rare these days to see this...

 

[Depleted]

Since some CC members have complaints about modern day churches, I'd like to put the following question: Could churches do better if they had unpaid rather than salaried pastors? I've seen some unpaid pastors preach; some of them were really guided by the Holy Spirit while others did a poor job due to lack of Bible knowledge. The upside of not being paid is that ministers have more freedom to preach the narrow way, but what's the downside?

Sometimes I have dinner delivered. I pay for the dinner and give the delivery person a tip. Sometimes I have my prescriptions delivered. I pay for the prescriptions and give that delivery guy a tip. When I get my car fixed, I pay the mechanic. When I can walk into one store to get all my food needs, instead of driving to farmers, I pay for that service. When I go see my doctors, I pay for that service.

I never did have the desire to go to seminary, study long hours, pass test, study more long hours, graduate, study more long hours to prepare a sermon, prepare the sermon, learn how to deliver it so everyone gets it, only to go back to work studying yet again for the next sermon. Just not in me to be like that.

And yet, I have learned so much from the men who did have that in them to do that. Exactly why should they alone not get paid for the service the render?

And why is it, that it always seem like Christians think every other Christian should give them something for free?

I started a business out of my home. To do that, I needed to market it. I'm a Christian. I like Christians, but it took me three days to decide if I wanted to advertise in The Christian Sirectory. Why? Because Christians are notorious for thinking everyone owes them a freebie or a heavy discount, just because they have Jesus. Christian cheapness is a trait much of the world sees clearly.

The downside? You get what you pay for!