Could churches do better with unpaid pastors?

[Depleted]

I think Churches would be better off without mandatory tithing at least. I have seen that system abused to extreme extents. I do not see a problem with the congregation paying or donating to a pastor in and of itself though.

You know that door you walked in through to get into a church with mandatory tithing? It makes a great exit too. Use it. Any church that mandates tithing isn't a church worth sticking around for.

 

[Willie-T]

You Guys slay me! Where DO you manage to find all these so-called "churches?"

 

[Depleted]

What is it about God's instructions that christians fail to comprehend?

What NT scripture supports the idea of the single, salared, self exalted pastor? Dont bother looking. There is none.

And why is that?

Oh yeah! Because at the time the NT was written, most of the churches were running for cover because Rome was hunting down Christians to kill them. It was wise to have a day job, because the chances were good, you either have to run away in the dark of the night or end up in prison and then kiled. THAT we see plenty of in the NT.

Then again, in the OT an entire tribe was tasked to take care of and minister to the tabernacle, so an enitre tribe received tithes from the other tribes and they lived on that tithe. Sure enough, one guy was always "the high priest." And then there is the other side that would truly drive you up the wall. Another guy was appointed by God to lead the people as the executive -- not a job voted in, but a life-long job nonetheless.

 

[Willie-T]

Sometimes I have dinner delivered. I pay for the dinner and give the delivery person a tip. Sometimes I have my prescriptions delivered. I pay for the prescriptions and give that delivery guy a tip. When I get my car fixed, I pay the mechanic. When I can walk into one store to get all my food needs, instead of driving to farmers, I pay for that service. When I go see my doctors, I pay for that service.

I never did have the desire to go to seminary, study long hours, pass test, study more long hours, graduate, study more long hours to prepare a sermon, prepare the sermon, learn how to deliver it so everyone gets it, only to go back to work studying yet again for the next sermon. Just not in me to be like that.

And yet, I have learned so much from the men who did have that in them to do that. Exactly why should they alone not get paid for the service the render?

And why is it, that it always seem like Christians think every other Christian should give them something for free?

I started a business out of my home. To do that, I needed to market it. I'm a Christian. I like Christians, but it took me three days to decide if I wanted to advertise in The Christian Sirectory. Why? Because Christians are notorious for thinking everyone owes them a freebie or a heavy discount, just because they have Jesus. Christian cheapness is a trait much of the world sees clearly.

The downside? You get what you pay for!

To be honest, when I was building homes, the more a person went on about being a Christian, the less I wanted to do business with them. Even waitresses will tell you that a table full of Christians is notoriously the worst prospect for getting a decent tip.

 

[oldethennew]

reading 11Cor. with an open and accepting heart is quite the eye opener...

Paul is very steadfast in informing all of the brethren, over and over in how they are to minister and take
precious care of their fellow brethren, in whatever circumstance - he goes on-an-on
about this personal ministry that each of us are to heed and follow.,

we found it very comforting that Paul continually taught the Body how, when, why, and you better -
succor and maintain your fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, but, the heart-breaking reality is,
that this is not what is happening, quite the contrary, the megas and wanna-be-megas
are being maintained through pitiful, guilt-laden-begging while the destitute and poor
are being shamefully neglected...

 

[Depleted]

Why is it that he gets to enjoy ministering when others with gifts and callings dont get to.

I bet he loves that weekly paycheck to for that 40 minute, 7 point sermon.

Actually, the invisible church keeps on doing our gifts along side the pastor.

The real problem I see is you assuming the pastor only works for that 40 minutes.

Pastors are often tasked to teach, comfort, help, fix, visit, support, pray, beg, pay bills (often without enough money to do so), paint, hammer, call, etc. 24/7 along with that 40 minute sermon.

My denomination tasks two groups for the work of what many churches believe only comes under one person's jurisdiction. Our Teaching Elders do just that -- teach. Our Ruling Elders do the comfort, help, fix, visit, support, paint, hammer, call part. And really, they work at finding out who is good with visiting some of the people, who is good with calling, who is good with a paintbrush, who can fix that broken thing, and who is good with comforting. (Bill payer is called "the secretary." Someone gifted in adminstrative works.) They get help when they need to or if they know a member is btter suited for the task. But they also pitch in for everythin according to their gifts. (One of them as unmechanically inclined as I am, so will never be called on to fix a lightswitch. lol) We're in this together, all parts working through our gifts.

And the praying? That's everyone's job!

 

[Depleted]

I have not seen one yet that doesnt push the false, dibilitating tithe.

And I've never seen anyone hit a hole-in-one on the 16th green of any golf course either for the exact same reason as you. If we don't go, we don't see.

 

[Depleted]

Makes you wonder how many of them go to work every day and tell their Boss...........Hey, DON'T PAY ME, I work for free.

I had two jobs in my life where I didn't get paid.
1. I was hired to clean houses from a man who had a cleaning business. Unfortunately, he also never had customers, so I couldn't work.
2. I went to an employment agency and requested jobs fitting into my specs. (My specs: A job where I sit most of the time, have heat in the winter, have air-conditioning in the summer, and get paid.) I was hired by the owner of the employment company, and I was stupid enough to assume he knew I wanted the "and get paid" part. After the first day, he told me I'd be paid strictly on commission, but he'd teach me how to get commssion quickly. After a week, and he was still teaching me how to make the commission, I left -- never to return again.

Oh, the stories I have of my naive, gullible younger self. lol

 

[Depleted]

Some 30 years ago I started attending a church (here in Brazil) whose ministers were unpaid. I was amazed at their frankness to preach the true Gospel. A few months later I tried another local church of the same denomination and was very disappointed.

Unpaid preachers can be excellent and can be deadly. There is no garantee that an unpaid preacher will preach the whole truth. They're not looking for money, but some may be just looking for fame and don't have Bible knowledge.

I accept both paid and unpaid pastors, provided they preach the truth.

Maybe it's the denomination that's the problem. Find another denomination.

 

[Depleted]

You Guys slay me! Where DO you manage to find all these so-called "churches?"

The 16th hole of a golf course I never go to. lol

 

[Depleted]

To be honest, when I was building homes, the more a person went on about being a Christian, the less I wanted to do business with them. Even waitresses will tell you that a table full of Christians is notoriously the worst prospect for getting a decent tip.

Hubby was an HVAC mechanic. Suddenly, everyone's hearter/central air broke just in time to want to chat with him after church service. He'd go through a four-bay garage with BMWs or Mercedes in each bay to get into the person's home and look at an old beat up heater or air conditioner, and then the owner of it became so very, VERY poor. Every time, the person already was told by several heating outfitd it needed to be replaced. Hubby would tell him the same thing. No, he needed it fix right now, because he couldn't afford a new one.

Hubby let it be known he never did side jobs. And then quietly let it be known to his friends that he would fix or replace any system if a member truly couldn't afford it. Those people wanted to pay him. (If they could afford the parts or the system, he'd let them. If they couldn't, not even that. He would accept a small tip, just because he knew it meant something to the perso to be able to offer a tip.) The rich never did, even just for his time spent telling them what they never wanted to hear yet again.

After word got out, the same people who rushed to speak with him after service never had time to speak to him again.

 

[Tintin]

I've never before heard of mandatory tithing churches. I just don't think they're a thing, here in Australia.

 

[presidente]

And why is that?

Oh yeah! Because at the time the NT was written, most of the churches were running for cover because Rome was hunting down Christians to kill them. It was wise to have a day job, because the chances were good, you either have to run away in the dark of the night or end up in prison and then kiled. THAT we see plenty of in the NT.

It seems like you are assuming that the way we do it now is the right way, whether or not it is taught in the New Testament. That's kind of like someone who believes the right way to do Communion is with Smarties and Coca-Cola arguing that the reason the early church used bread and wine was because Smarties and Coca-Cola hadn't been invented yet.

Some of us believe we are to follow the example and teaching of the apostles in the New Testament and examine current practice in light of that.

 

[peacenik]

Since some CC members have complaints about modern day churches, I'd like to put the following question: Could churches do better if they had unpaid rather than salaried pastors? I've seen some unpaid pastors preach; some of them were really guided by the Holy Spirit while others did a poor job due to lack of Bible knowledge. The upside of not being paid is that ministers have more freedom to preach the narrow way, but what's the downside?

Very good topic.

Years ago when being a church pastor was just a minimum wage job, pastors worked very hard to earn their pay. As such, churches exerted far more positive influence over society. Today churches are largely, though not exclusively, profit seeking institutions who fail to do good for society. Many churches make tax free incomes which are pocketed by the Pharisees who run them. Consider some of these "Christian" colleges who have massive football stadiums, make untold millions in profits, pay huge sums of money to their staffs and faculties, while charging enormous sums of money in tuition for poor families, many of whom remain in debt well after graduating.

Churches such as Trinity church in down town Manhattan which owns much of Wall Street, should be compelled to pay their share of taxes. Their books should all be put on public display so that parishioners can see where their money is going. While pastors deserve some pay, especially those who actually work for their money, society would be far better off if churches were run the way they used to be with public service, not profit making, being their ideal goals.

 

[mpaper345]

Since some CC members have complaints about modern day churches, I'd like to put the following question: Could churches do better if they had unpaid rather than salaried pastors? I've seen some unpaid pastors preach; some of them were really guided by the Holy Spirit while others did a poor job due to lack of Bible knowledge. The upside of not being paid is that ministers have more freedom to preach the narrow way, but what's the downside?

As far as preachers being paid,Paul said that he only wanted his needs met,and as went around preaching to the Gentiles,and said on the first day lay up in store as God has prospered,which would be for needs.

The Bible says the early Church sold all they had,and laid it at the apostles feet,and the gave to every person that had need.

The Bible says the preacher is not to be in the ministry for filthy lucre,or money.

I do not know about salary,but I do know we have to take care of their needs,as well as all the saints,if we can.

All the money that comes in is for the needs of people,including the preacher,and whatever pertains to the kingdom of God.

 

[Depleted]

It seems like you are assuming that the way we do it now is the right way, whether or not it is taught in the New Testament. That's kind of like someone who believes the right way to do Communion is with Smarties and Coca-Cola arguing that the reason the early church used bread and wine was because Smarties and Coca-Cola hadn't been invented yet.

Some of us believe we are to follow the example and teaching of the apostles in the New Testament and examine current practice in light of that.

That's because your "seem" is inaccurate. We do things how we do things based on what is biblical and what works in that particular area. I really don't see our version of church working in Wyoming. Get a Teaching Elder and several Ruling Elders and chances are good that IS the congregation. lol

 

[Depleted]

Very good topic.

Years ago when being a church pastor was just a minimum wage job, pastors worked very hard to earn their pay. As such, churches exerted far more positive influence over society. Today churches are largely, though not exclusively, profit seeking institutions who fail to do good for society. Many churches make tax free incomes which are pocketed by the Pharisees who run them. Consider some of these "Christian" colleges who have massive football stadiums, make untold millions in profits, pay huge sums of money to their staffs and faculties, while charging enormous sums of money in tuition for poor families, many of whom remain in debt well after graduating.

Churches such as Trinity church in down town Manhattan which owns much of Wall Street, should be compelled to pay their share of taxes. Their books should all be put on public display so that parishioners can see where their money is going. While pastors deserve some pay, especially those who actually work for their money, society would be far better off if churches were run the way they used to be with public service, not profit making, being their ideal goals.

Anyone who starts a church for profit is too dumb to make a profit. Honestly? Churches are notorious for losing money. Kind of like wanting to start a business selling ice cubes to scientist in Antarctica. I think the ice cubes would sell better.

 

[peacenik]

Anyone who starts a church for profit is too dumb to make a profit. Honestly? Churches are notorious for losing money. Kind of like wanting to start a business selling ice cubes to scientist in Antarctica. I think the ice cubes would sell better.

Losing money may be true of small parishes. I well remember several storefront churches built on old mom-and-pop stores in Brooklyn years ago. Some did go asunder. Some expanded. Remember that Crystal church in California which went bankrupt? It did so because of the extravagant lifestyle of its owners. Had these people chosen to live a more modest lifestyle and invested the money wisely they would not have faced bankruptcy.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

I've never before heard of mandatory tithing churches. I just don't think they're a thing, here in Australia.

Not only that, the last pastor I accepted as "my pastor"....he has passed away now unfortunately, but there was another Church across the street from him. He had a man who attended the church across the street come to talk to him one day. The preacher there had accused him of not paying his full tithe. He explained that "no, I gave you exactly the percentage you asked". The preacher said to bring him proof, pay stubs or something of that nature. It upset the guy so bad because he had been completely honest.

The guy talked to my pastor because he had a really good (and deservedly so) reputation. He just told the guy, look I am not in the business of interfering or saying anything against other churches......but obviously your only options are either provide him with the proof he asked for or not.

I am surprised so many people here haven't heard of these kinds of Churches. I am very glad that you guys haven't though, it means you aren't going to one

 

[Miri]

I never heard of mandatory tithing at all. The pastors in our church (there are 4)
don't even get involved in that in our church, there is an admin team/office
staff who deal with the finances etc.

Every year when the accounts are published, a copy is given out to anyone who wants
them along with a copy of the annual general meeting. It doesn't matter whether they
are members, non members or just visitors. Anyone can attend the annual general
meeting.