Counting miracles

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kenisyes

Guest
#1
#1
John, right at the end of his Gospel, tells us that if all of Jesus' miracles were written down, all the books in the world could not hold them. But I have often wondered just how many miracles Jesus' worked that have been written down. I know most were healings and deliverances, a couple resurrections, and few unique ones, like water-to-wine, walking on water, feeding the 12,000 (or was it 5000, or was it twice), stopping the storm.

I'd like to know how many. Would anyone care to help me figure it out?

I'd also like to know if the same numbers are happening today, at least in some parts of the Body. (I was taught as a child, they are.) How do these numbers compare with the church they attend? How do they compare with the false claims of the international "healing" and "deliverance" "ministries"?
 
I

iTOREtheSKY

Guest
#2
#2
Do you believe that John meant that literally or was he just saying,there were a ton of awesome things Jesus did,but to record them all would be pointless seeing as the bible already has enough examples? In the same breath...in the OT they certainly found it "important" enough to break down the genealogy & family trees of people. That in & of it's self seems epic...and does that benefit us now reading all of that? I'm not sure where to begin other than counting the ones stated in the bible that are obvious. I always have heard lots about miracles overseas among believers & within churches...like biblical type stuff. Raising of the dead,limbs growing back,eyesight restored,etc...much much more than you hear reported within the USA. Is that due to our media? Surely if someone was shot & killed & a believer walked over to them & said "In Jesus name,rise!" and they did...wouldn't that be all over the news here???
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#3
#3
May be a tad bit of hyper literalism going on.
I think he's sayin Jesus did a ton of miracles.
It's a figure of speech.

Similar to...Bill Gates has more money than banks can hold!
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#4
#4
Well, it certainly would make it easier to count ALL the miracles if John's comment is hyperbole. There is no contradiction to inspiration either, as John says "I doubt" there would be enough books to hold them. It's pretty clear God is not telling us Jesus worked too many miracles to be written up. The passage actually is not about miracles at all, but about "things Jesus did." The Greek word doesn't even suggest a show of power, as it could do. So, I guess that raises an additional question, what percent of Jesus' miracles have been written down?
 
P

piper27

Guest
#5
#5
Funny, I was thinking of this only this morning. How DO we record a miracle nowadays?? So much is explained away through science, techonology, and sheer 'luck'.
Do you think perhaps acknowledging a miracle could be a mindset?
For example: I've seen obvious (to me) miracles. One being healed of terminal cancer on 3 seperate occasions.
I was able to witness the tumour leave his face. It was about a 6 week process.
This same man had a tumour growing out of his back, again after a few weeks, this visable tumour was gone.
( he also had lymphoma which left)
Doctors sent him home each time with weeks left to live.....each time was healed.
(lymphoma was 'healed' by conventional medical treatments)
On the other occasions, doctors can't explain the tumours disappearing, but will not declare it a miracle.
Did a miracle happen?

My daughter prayed for a deaf man -- he took out his hearing aides and wept as he was able to hear without aide.
What news media recorded that?
A man in my small group had a 5 ton truck land on his chest as he was working underneath it.
2 days in the hospital, and 2 broken ribs -- he was declared whole, in fact, as a 70+ man, his doctor marvelled at the condition of his once diseased heart and sent him him saying his heart was that of a 30 year old. Who records this??
We do in our praises!!
This same man: his brother crippled with braces and canes for the last 14 years received prayer over the telephone, within 24 hours he is up and walking brace/cane free and IS BACK TO WORK!!! Miracle!!
The lists go on, these are things I choose to acknowledge and thank God for.

I travelled across Canada recently with no adversity -- did a miracle happen?? How are we to know?

Recently, I declare and believe that I am a carrier of miracles. I love to see how God can work them out in my life.
Today, i am a receiver of that .
Thank you Lord.
And thank you Kenisyes for starting this thread, it reminds me of extravagant hope. :)
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#6
#6
I agree completely, Piper. The Greek words do not match our English words at all. Miracles, works, healings.... We today seem more concerned about whether it violates science or not. The people at Jesus' time were more concerned whether it was done in a way that spoke of the heart of God. I think we are too busy thinking about whether something proves the power of God, that we miss whether it shows the presence of God.
 
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1Covenant

Guest
#7
#7
I agree that this is more a general statement that there were a lot of miracles.

I also think that the reference to books would be in reference, not to the number of miracles, per se, but rather to the books that could be written with reference to their spiritual Christocentric importance. Example, The feeding of the five thousand tied to Christ's statement that he is the bread of life. The blind man that received sight in order that God may reveal who it is that is really blind and who it is that truly has sight. The resurrection of Lazarus so that Christ could testify that he is the resurrection and the life. Et cetera.

In an attempt to add to the discussion but not at all intended to be contrary to your second question. I believe there is something greater than these works that are important in the occurrence among the body and in assessing the body.
Christ told the disciples that they would do greater works than he, because He goes to the Father. Yet they did all that He did in their earthly ministry and didn't do some of the things he did (walk on water, etc), with the exception of kingdom harvest.

Though people feigned loyalty for Christ: they continually struggled with his words, on occasions He slipped away from their embrace on purpose, on occasion he seemed to drive them away with hard sayings, his disciples would abandon him because of persecution, and the people would finally reject the cornerstone and call for his crucifixion.

The disciples, after Christ went to the Father and after Pentecost, brought in the kingdom harvest even though they spoke harshly at times and even though they and the converts faced persecution. In spite of every obstacle a harvest was brought in to the kingdom.

Christ had to be lifted up for this to occur. He had to be rejected and despised so that later his disciples could add to the kingdom daily through the Spirit which was promised to flow out of them like rivers of living water.

The GREAT commission is that greater work. Another question might be that without evidence of this work is a church dead in its own works? I know that I struggle with this question for myself as I look at my life and think how profitable am I to the kingdom harvest? I also struggle not to judge others by this standard but still wonder where is the mark of the fruitful church?

I also think that we do not see more miracles today because we are generally looking to see them primarily among the people of God (in our comfort zone with wishful faith) and not, as a people, living outside our comfort zone in courageous (though perhaps little) faith to declare such things in the context of our commission (Acts 3 being one example). All other miracles in Acts seem to be presented in the context of this continual refrain throughout the book that they are going out and that people are added "to the Lord" or "to their numbers" daily. In other words - these works are done in the context of their great commission from Christ.

I think it is an interesting question to ponder - how our works compare to our harvest? What does it mean if we seem to have faith for healing but not faith in our boldness for a harvest? Which is greater for us to desire?.

Kenisyes,
Thank you for starting this interesting thread. I look forward to reading other posts and opinions.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#8
#8
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
Click to expand...
I think what we really need to do is find out the size of the Earth, and then the average size of a book in Jesus' days.
Then try to figure out how many books we could put on every square inch of the planet before the first book would go into orbit.

Hyper-literalism is yummy! :p
 
Dotann

Dotann

Senior Member
#9
Jan 28, 2012
146
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0
#9
For me, i have experienced so many miracles first hand in my own life and witnessed in many others that i don't think many would even believe them all? I have been saved from death many times literally, had a visitation from an angel who prophesied and encouraged me and my husband just before my stroke occurred and it greatly helped us both to carry on and strengthen us and built up our faith.
I have seen my husbands body lay lifeless as he lay underneath a full size truck and over 30 men, including the ambulance drivers, 911 dispatch, fire dispatch and police tried to remove the truck from him and as they tried to do so, they also tried to prepare me that he was dead, yet only because of prayer and the prayer of others, he is not only alive, but nothing wrong with him and that was after they manually dropped the truck on him 3 times for they had to do it immediately and could not wait for the helicopter, as his arm was turning blue! This accident led in the end to an attendant their who gave their life to the Lord!

I have so many miracles, i could go on for days!!!

My God is a big God! He says as long as you believe and you only need the faith the size of a grain of mustard seed you can move mountains!

I don't have much, as i have a simple mind but i have big faith! I give God all the glory and credit for everything i have and i pray for all things while in all things! I also praise Him during all things too! That includes in the midst of the bad times as well! God is still God regardless if i am having a bad day or if the exact prayer i think should manifests itself! regardless or not, God remains God! And He is ever faithful! I will trust Him, as he was with me yesterday, today and will be with me tomorrow too! I have not one doubt in my mind or in one atom of my cells. I am blessed and know the JOY of the Lord! :)

I am so thankful for God and the miracles in my life. What i have learned is, we have many more miracles in our life that we could see IF we allowed our eyes to open up more to not take Him or the things around us for granted!

Heads up people... there's no such thing as luck, or coincidences..... People use those words as a way of not giving credit to God or as a way of making themselves not think "Could this really be God doing this? For if it is, i might have to change some things or ideas in my life, and people some times don't like real change.. They say its OK,, until it becomes a reality...
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#10
#10
1still_waters said:
I think what we really need to do is find out the size of the Earth, and then the average size of a book in Jesus' days.
Then try to figure out how many books we could put on every square inch of the planet before the first book would go into orbit.

Hyper-literalism is yummy! :p
Click to expand...
They talked a lot about this in the 1920's. It was called the "universal library" concept. Actually, we need to figure out how big John thought the world was in terms of books, because it is his supposition.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#11
kenisyes said:
John, right at the end of his Gospel, tells us that if all of Jesus' miracles were written down, all the books in the world could not hold them. But I have often wondered just how many miracles Jesus' worked that have been written down. I know most were healings and deliverances, a couple resurrections, and few unique ones, like water-to-wine, walking on water, feeding the 12,000 (or was it 5000, or was it twice), stopping the storm.

I'd like to know how many. Would anyone care to help me figure it out?

I'd also like to know if the same numbers are happening today, at least in some parts of the Body. (I was taught as a child, they are.) How do these numbers compare with the church they attend? How do they compare with the false claims of the international "healing" and "deliverance" "ministries"?
Click to expand...
let's see 3 years of ministry at 365days per year = 1095 days, then lets' say 7 miracles/day =7685 miracles. I think there were more books than that.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#12
#12
Dotan and 1Covenant, you make many worthwhile points. A lot of great directions we could go off in. Can anyone help me count the miracles in Scripture? This the bible study forum after all.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#13
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#13
kenisyes said:
Dotan and 1Covenant, you make many worthwhile points. A lot of great directions we could go off in. Can anyone help me count the miracles in Scripture? This the bible study forum after all.
Click to expand...
C'mon mine was just tongue in cheek..We only know for sure what's written in Scripture about the life of Jesus.
 
P

Professor

Guest
#14
#14
Ken,
The mathematician in you seems to be coming out :)

kenisyes said:
Well, it certainly would make it easier to count ALL the miracles if John's comment is hyperbole. There is no contradiction to inspiration either, as John says "I doubt" there would be enough books to hold them. It's pretty clear God is not telling us Jesus worked too many miracles to be written up. The passage actually is not about miracles at all, but about "things Jesus did." The Greek word doesn't even suggest a show of power, as it could do. So, I guess that raises an additional question, what percent of Jesus' miracles have been written down?
Click to expand...
 
N

Nancyer

Guest
#15
#15
kenisyes said:
I agree completely, Piper. The Greek words do not match our English words at all. Miracles, works, healings.... We today seem more concerned about whether it violates science or not. The people at Jesus' time were more concerned whether it was done in a way that spoke of the heart of God. I think we are too busy thinking about whether something proves the power of God, that we miss whether it shows the presence of God.
Click to expand...
Ken, I love this explanation. Tomorrow I will be reading scripture and closing the Sunday Service and was thinking I wanted something to say or read to the congregation before the last hymn and our benediction. This is perfect, thank you. Is there specific scripture you can direct me to regarding what John says about all the miracles? Thank you again,

 
P

Professor

Guest
#16
#16
John 21:24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.


Nancyer said:
Ken, I love this explanation. Tomorrow I will be reading scripture and closing the Sunday Service and was thinking I wanted something to say or read to the congregation before the last hymn and our benediction. This is perfect, thank you. Is there specific scripture you can direct me to regarding what John says about all the miracles? Thank you again,
Click to expand...
 
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Nancyer

Guest
#17
#17
:D Thank you, Professor.
 
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piper27

Guest
#18
#18
kenisyes said:
Dotan and 1Covenant, you make many worthwhile points. A lot of great directions we could go off in. Can anyone help me count the miracles in Scripture? This the bible study forum after all.
Click to expand...

You must share the formula. It would be interesting. :)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#19
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#19
kenisyes said:
Dotan and 1Covenant, you make many worthwhile points. A lot of great directions we could go off in. Can anyone help me count the miracles in Scripture? This the bible study forum after all.
Click to expand...
I'll go first...

1. In the beginning God...
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#20
#20
50,000 +/-thousands
 
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