DELAYED NO LONGER, IN YOUR DAYS!!!

[Timeline]

Ezekiel 12:21-22
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]22 [/SUP]“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For I the Lord will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord God.’”[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.

Why are people still waiting for any of Ezekiel (or any vision on the OT) to be fulfilled if Ezekiel itself says, "The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision."?

Acts 2:14-21
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]‘And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]‘The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Hebrews 1:1-4
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, [SUP]4 [/SUP]having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

 

[Timeline]

Isaiah 9:1
But there will be no more gloom for her who was in anguish; in earlier times He treated the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.

Luke 21:20-36
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; [SUP]22 [/SUP]because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; [SUP]24 [/SUP]and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.[SUP]25 [/SUP]“There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, [SUP]26 [/SUP]men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; [SUP]30 [/SUP]as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. [SUP]31 [/SUP]So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. [SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; [SUP]35 [/SUP]for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. [SUP]15 [/SUP]While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He said to them, “What are these words that you are exchanging with one another as you are walking?” And they stood still, looking sad. [SUP]18 [/SUP]One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, “Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But also some women among us amazed us. When they were at the tomb early in the morning, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and did not find His body, they came, saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said that He was alive. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just exactly as the women also had said; but Him they did not see.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! [SUP]26 [/SUP]Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.



Matthew 24:34
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Matthew 16:28
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 9:1And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”



Luke 9:27
But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Timeline]

[SUP]64 [/SUP]Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Mark 16:19So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

Hebrews 1:3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


I suppose that He saw Him sit down at the right hand of power, but did not see Him coming on the clouds of heaven. Maybe the high priest that heard Jesus say this will need to be raised from the dead in order to see Him coming on the clouds of heaven - either that, or it already happened!

 

[john832]

Ezekiel 12:21-22
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]22 [/SUP]“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For I the Lord will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord God.’”[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.

Why are people still waiting for any of Ezekiel (or any vision on the OT) to be fulfilled if Ezekiel itself says, "The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision."?

Acts 2:14-21
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]‘And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]‘The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Hebrews 1:1-4
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, [SUP]4 [/SUP]having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

Because Ezekiel's prophecies were NEVER fulfilled in his day.

 

[Timeline]

Because Ezekiel's prophecies were NEVER fulfilled in his day.

Yes, but they were fulfilled in Jesus Christ!

 

[Timeline]

I just recently looked up what everybody means when they say "dispensation". I agree that they were (and are, maybe) periods of time. But I do not agree that biblical prophecy is still futuristic. I believe that the bible is self-fulfilling.

Now some people say that this opinion kills our hope - Why? Jesus Christ was the fulfillment. He has satisfied the Law and the Prophets, whether it was directly (as most was) or indirectly through the apostles. This does not change the fact that we still live our lives for our God and Savior.

 

[Timeline]

When Jesus said that the kingdom was at hand. I believe that He meant that they could "take hold" of it. It was there. He was and is the King.

We see that He said that He was King before He was crucified. And to be quite frank, He was King when Israel asked for a king.

John 18:37
Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

1 Samuel 8:7
The Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them.

 

[john832]

Yes, but they were fulfilled in Jesus Christ!

When was this one fulfilled?

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Eze 37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

When has Israel been an unwalled land living in peace and safety?

Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

How about this for Russia?

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

And there surely would have been something in the history books if this had happened...

Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Eze 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

How about the healing of the Dead Sea?

Eze 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Eze 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Waters are not flowing from this Temple for it has not been built yet.

 

[Timeline]

When was this one fulfilled?

Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Eze 37:20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

You do not believe this has been fulfilled?

Have you not read Paul's letters?

As for the temple not being built - Same question?

Have you read past the four gospels?

As for Russia - What? Russia was not a even in Ezekiel! You are projecting what you believe it to be saying onto what it is trying to tell you.

Jesus offered living water to the Samaritan women - But you claim that there was no water flowing from the temple (remember this: John 2:21
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Oh, wait, Jesus never said anything that wasn't literal (sarcasm)

 

[Timeline]

You do not believe this has been fulfilled?

Have you not read Paul's letters?

As for the temple not being built - Same question?

Have you read past the four gospels?

As for Russia - What? Russia was not a even in Ezekiel! You are projecting what you believe it to be saying onto what it is trying to tell you.

Jesus offered living water to the Samaritan women - But you claim that there was no water flowing from the temple (remember this: John 2:21
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Oh, wait, Jesus never said anything that wasn't literal (sarcasm)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— [SUP]12 [/SUP]remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, [SUP]15 [/SUP]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; [SUP]18 [/SUP]for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. [SUP]19 [/SUP]So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, [SUP]22 [/SUP]in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

 

[john832]

Ezekiel 12:21-22
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]22 [/SUP]“Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, ‘The days are long and every vision fails’? [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel.” But tell them, “The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For I the Lord will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord God.’”[SUP]26 [/SUP]Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed,”’” declares the Lord God.

Why are people still waiting for any of Ezekiel (or any vision on the OT) to be fulfilled if Ezekiel itself says, "The days draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision."?

Acts 2:14-21
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]‘And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]‘The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Hebrews 1:1-4
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, [SUP]2 [/SUP]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, [SUP]4 [/SUP]having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

You do not believe this has been fulfilled?

Have you not read Paul's letters?

As for the temple not being built - Same question?

Have you read past the four gospels?

As for Russia - What? Russia was not a even in Ezekiel! You are projecting what you believe it to be saying onto what it is trying to tell you.

Jesus offered living water to the Samaritan women - But you claim that there was no water flowing from the temple (remember this: John 2:21
But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Oh, wait, Jesus never said anything that wasn't literal (sarcasm)

I understand now, it is figurative when it suits your needs and literal when it suits your needs and you are free to decide which is which.

The perils and pitfalls of preterism, I guess.

 

[crossnote]

Dispensations does not mean periods of time but modes of working or economies.
Too bad you have swallowed hook line and sinker the preterest/amill view.
When have Jews returned to the land from the four corners of the earth?
When has this happened...

Zechariah 14:2-4 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I hope you reconsider and take a more literal approach to Scripture, since after all, all the prophecies leading up to the first coming were fulfilled literally.

 

[Timeline]

I understand now, it is figurative when it suits your needs and literal when it suits your needs and you are free to decide which is which.

The perils and pitfalls of preterism, I guess.

So Jesus did not make reference to his body being the temple?!!!

And that is quite the old argument. Which basically means that you don't want to have a discussion.

Paul says that we should never sleep in 1 Thes. 5:6, but we all know that he did not mean literal sleep.

1 Thes. 5:6
so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

So it would seem that it would be God that uses "figurative" and "literal" when He feels like it! And not me that is trying to insert it where it is not.

Have you read Ecclesiastes?
Lamentations sounds a whole lot like prophecy in several places!
What about Song of Solomon, Proverbs, Revelation? They all have literal and figurative in them. As well as the Gospels. Spiritual words that men cannot put together, properly, without the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I do believe that He has helped me, but He would help me even more if I weren't so stubborn.

 

[john832]

So Jesus did not make reference to his body being the temple?!!!

And that is quite the old argument. Which basically means that you don't want to have a discussion.

Paul says that we should never sleep in 1 Thes. 5:6, but we all know that he did not mean literal sleep.

1 Thes. 5:6
so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

So it would seem that it would be God that uses "figurative" and "literal" when He feels like it! And not me that is trying to insert it where it is not.

Have you read Ecclesiastes?
Lamentations sounds a whole lot like prophecy in several places!
What about Song of Solomon, Proverbs, Revelation? They all have literal and figurative in them. As well as the Gospels. Spiritual words that men cannot put together, properly, without the Holy Spirit.

Yes, I do believe that He has helped me, but He would help me even more if I weren't so stubborn.

Again you choose to be figurative when you want and literal when you want.

 

[just-me]

I just recently looked up what everybody means when they say "dispensation". I agree that they were (and are, maybe) periods of time. But I do not agree that biblical prophecy is still futuristic. I believe that the bible is self-fulfilling.

Now some people say that this opinion kills our hope - Why? Jesus Christ was the fulfillment. He has satisfied the Law and the Prophets, whether it was directly (as most was) or indirectly through the apostles. This does not change the fact that we still live our lives for our God and Savior.

I agree that Jesus was caught up into the clouds, but I see no record in history, or the Bible that He has come down in the clouds yet. The feast of tabernacles will be totally seen by all the world in the millennial period, even for those that refuse to come to the feast. The feast is to be invoked today also as a rehearsal to this final future feast.

Zechariah 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up , and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Three Feasts of the Pentateuch

read the chapter .... starting with page 56
Building And Rebuilding The Temple

 

[Timeline]

Dispensations does not mean periods of time but modes of working or economies.
Too bad you have swallowed hook line and sinker the preterest/amill view.
When have Jews returned to the land from the four corners of the earth?
When has this happened...

Zechariah 14:2-4 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

I hope you reconsider and take a more literal approach to Scripture, since after all, all the prophecies leading up to the first coming were fulfilled literally.

I actually read in on Wikipedia or something, just because it keeps coming up and I didn't know what was being said.

Let me explain further, I DID NOT get any of my thoughts from reading someone else's thoughts on the matter. Before I started CC I did not know what a Preterist, Amillienialist, Pre-Trib, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah was. I don't really care about the titles. The only reason that have I learned what I have is because people keep talking about biblical things using man made doctrines and theories. I do understand that we know only what we know - and that is how we discuss it.

But I didn't buy into any amill view, even though I go to a church that is amillenialist. So if we can avoid slapping each other in the face with sucker punches (comments), that would be great. Sorry if that seemed rude, but I would like to have a constructive discussion without us being ugly.

Okay, let me ask you this - What does it mean when it says Four Corners of a sphere?

Would it mean all over the world or just from the North, West, East, and South. Or something else altogether.

As for the Zechariah verse - I would tell you, but it really doesn't matter because if it is recorded in scripture, I don't know where it is. But I don't believe that it is recorded in scripture. But I do believe that we can figure it out, with help from the Holy Spirit, and working together. I don't, like many, think that those that disagree with me can't contribute to me and I to them. But if we are being competitive and just trying to put the other person down, then no one benefits from the discussion.

 

[Timeline]

Again you choose to be figurative when you want and literal when you want.

No, I don't. There is only one agenda I have when I read - To know what God is saying.

How do you suppose that I arrived at the Preterist view (Not that I care for the title).

What do I benefit from it? Really, I don't know what the benefit is. So if you could tell me how there should be any desire, at all, for me to come to the Preterist conclusion (without even reading anything but the Bible), you just let me know.

The only desire is to know what God wants me to know! That and to have a calm, productive discussion with another human being about the bible. People get so defensive and so angry. But the Bible does not say everything that I think it does nor does it say everything that you think it does.

So, I know that you know a lot of the bible, I and I think that you know that I know some. Let's sharpen each other.

Instead of just simply challenging that I am being figurative only where I want to be figurative, Why don't you start by explaining to me how and why you think that Gog should be Russian (Past, Present, or Future)?

 

[KJV1611]

I'm no preterist, either nor did I even know what this was until I started chatting in forums. But I see the same thing you see timeline. Almost all of the Old Testament prophesies are fulfilled. If we come to the bible with an open mind and allow God to be our teacher, we will come away with the same conclusions. The problem comes in when people impose their preconceived ideas on the scriptures. Perfect example is Gog being Russia. No body just by reading the bible will ever come up with that interpretation.

 

[john832]

I'm no preterist, either nor did I even know what this was until I started chatting in forums. But I see the same thing you see timeline. Almost all of the Old Testament prophesies are fulfilled. If we come to the bible with an open mind and allow God to be our teacher, we will come away with the same conclusions. The problem comes in when people impose their preconceived ideas on the scriptures. Perfect example is Gog being Russia. No body just by reading the bible will ever come up with that interpretation.

????

Eze 38:14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

What is directly North of Israel?

 

[Timeline]

How about the healing of the Dead Sea?

Eze 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Eze 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

I would tell you what this reminds me of, but you wouldn't like it...And it is so obvious that you have probably already thought of and rejected it.

Maybe it would help if you thought of things as being Spiritually Literal. Now I am not saying that any of this did not literally happen - As I believe that "the fleshly comes first, then the spiritual". But that does not mean that all of the physical occurrences are recorded in the bible. Yes, I know, you think that that is a cop out. But I can't and don't want to try to put things in the bible that are not there. But the Old Testament is overflowing with foreshadowing.

And when you think about it, Everything pointed to Jesus. And if it wasn't talking about Jesus, then it was usually talking about something/someone that directly related to Jesus. Jesus was the point! Jesus was the answer! Jesus was the fulfillment!

And Jesus chose Paul, special and different from the others.

I know that you are pretty familiar with the prophecies, so I would like to ask you to do something. Think about the prophecies in reference to the whole NT. I believe that while you are reading them that things will pop out at you. As a matter of fact, if you take this seriously, I know they will.