Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

[eternally-gratefull]

Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”

Once again, this sounds like your saying that we have to be obedient to be saved. Yet you deny it. Yet every post you make that is what we see over and over.

Since I am not, nor is anyone else in here saying that a child of God can live in sin, Nor that a child of God is disobedient. What is your point? Who are you talking to?

Why are you so afraid to talk about what gives us power over sin?

 

[MarcR]

I agree, It is hard for some people. The whole point of this thread is what gives us power to over come sin. What enables us to be obedient to God. God said those who are born of God do not sin, because they have the spirit. Why is this.

is it the law? Is it by religious rules? Or is it because of something else.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit within us.

It seems strange to me that the Gentile Church has no problem with this.

Messianic Jewish believers understand this.

Hebrew Roots and SDA can't accept this. There is an unshakable works mentality there that seems beyond reason.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is the work of the Holy Spirit within us.

It seems strange to me that the Gentile Church has no problem with this.

Messianic Jewish believers understand this.

Hebrew Roots and SDA can't accept this. There is an unshakable works mentality there that seems beyond reason.

Amen

How does grace and mercy play into this? How does our position in Christ (which I think the Bible states is our train focus) play into this.

 

[MarcR]

Amen

How does grace and mercy play into this? How does our position in Christ (which I think the Bible states is our train focus) play into this.

I think the core problem is understanding or misunderstanding the purpose of the Law of Moses aka the Law of Sin and Death.

If we see the purpose and intent of the Law as persuading people that they can't please God by their own efforts; we can accept Salvation and Sanctification by grace alone.

If one sees the Law as a path to righteous living; sanctification by grace alone is a contradiction-- even if Salvation by grace alone is accepted.

 

[Studyman]

God never changes, but He can change His commandments at any time. Remember that in the O.T. men could have more than one wife? See the difference between these two covenants (O.T. and N. T.)?

Gen. 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Eph. 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

There is no difference in God's Law between the Old Covenant and the New. This is symbolically taught in:

Ex. 34:1.1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

The New Covenant had nothing to do with the definition of sin, only the administration of God's Laws. (written on our hearts by God instead of trusting the Levitical priests) and the manner in which sin's were forgiven. (By Faith in Jesus as opposed to the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" that the Jews were still pushing)

 

[Hizikyah]

Once again, this sounds like your saying that we have to be obedient to be saved. Yet you deny it. Yet every post you make that is what we see over and over.

Since I am not, nor is anyone else in here saying that a child of God can live in sin, Nor that a child of God is disobedient. What is your point? Who are you talking to?

Why are you so afraid to talk about what gives us power over sin?

I told you my view over and voer, the Spirit of YHWH:

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

same:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."[/FONT]

 

[Marcelo]

Many Christians say that Jesus has abolished the law and therefore they don't want to keep the commandments. But I can't agree with that.

Have you ever seen one single soul on this planet who keeps the law of Moses? Some people love the Law, talk about the Law, want us to keep the Law, but they themselves don't do it. They don't even keep the Sabbath properly, let alone the whole Law.

 

[Studyman]

I think the core problem is understanding or misunderstanding the purpose of the Law of Moses aka the Law of Sin and Death.

If we see the purpose and intent of the Law as persuading people that they can't please God by their own efforts; we can accept Salvation and Sanctification by grace alone.

If one sees the Law as a path to righteous living; sanctification by grace alone is a contradiction-- even if Salvation by grace alone is accepted.

But we all have works Marcelo. Everybody will be judged by those works. So the first works:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Are we not to repent, turn to God, and do Works Worthy of repentance? How is transgressing God's Commandments a "work" worthy of repentance? And if God has truly written HIS Laws on our hearts, how can we continue in traditions that thransgress those same laws?

 

[MarcR]

But we all have works Marcelo. Everybody will be judged by those works. So the first works:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Are we not to repent, turn to God, and do Works Worthy of repentance? How is transgressing God's Commandments a "work" worthy of repentance? And if God has truly written HIS Laws on our hearts, how can we continue in traditions that thransgress those same laws?

You seem to be responding to me; but you are addressing Marcelo. I admit we are saying much the same thing; but we are different people.

What you seem not to understand is that we are in agreement on the need for obedience.

My position, and that of EG, Mailman Dan, and Marcelo is that the Law is NOT the way to get there. The indwelling Holy Spirit, by His work (NOT OUR'S) brings us to a place of obedience.

Any attempt to do it your self will fall short of God's standard!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think the core problem is understanding or misunderstanding the purpose of the Law of Moses aka the Law of Sin and Death.

If we see the purpose and intent of the Law as persuading people that they can't please God by their own efforts; we can accept Salvation and Sanctification by grace alone.

If one sees the Law as a path to righteous living; sanctification by grace alone is a contradiction-- even if Salvation by grace alone is accepted.

This is true, band I think this is the point Paul was trying to make. Paul was not condemning the law. He was judging false application of the law. And the dangers involved with it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I told you my view over and voer, the Spirit of YHWH:

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

same:

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

How does the spirit do it?

Just saying the spirit does not answer. Anyone can say this.

As I said, I say the same thing, yet do not agree with your view of HOW it is done. So are we both right, what separates us?

Those verses are not helpful. As we see, we have different enterpretations of those things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you ever seen one single soul on this planet who keeps the law of Moses? Some people love the Law, talk about the Law, want us to keep the Law, but they themselves don't do it. They don't even keep the Sabbath properly, let alone the whole Law.

it is why Christians are seen as hypocrites. Jesus even exposed it in his parable about the lawyer and tax collector.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But we all have works Marcelo. Everybody will be judged by those works. So the first works:

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Are we not to repent, turn to God, and do Works Worthy of repentance? How is transgressing God's Commandments a "work" worthy of repentance? And if God has truly written HIS Laws on our hearts, how can we continue in traditions that thransgress those same laws?

Who is suggesting it is ok to transgress any law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You seem to be responding to me; but you are addressing Marcelo. I admit we are saying much the same thing; but we are different people.

What you seem not to understand is that we are in agreement on the need for obedience.

My position, and that of EG, Mailman Dan, and Marcelo is that the Law is NOT the way to get there. The indwelling Holy Spirit, by His work (NOT OUR'S) brings us to a place of obedience.

Any attempt to do it your self will fall short of God's standard!

Amen, And what gives us the power to do it.

Is it by law or is it by grace (I am not talking about salvation, My context is sanctification) is not the mpower to both grace?

 

[Studyman]

Have you ever seen one single soul on this planet who keeps the law of Moses? Some people love the Law, talk about the Law, want us to keep the Law, but they themselves don't do it. They don't even keep the Sabbath properly, let alone the whole Law.

Marcelo,



Mighty bold statement which flies in the face of what Jesus teaches. Zacharias was able to honor God with obedience and like Abraham, he was blessed.

What about God's Sabbath is impossible to follow? I'm talking about God's Sabbaths, not the Sabbath the Mainstream preachers of His time created.

Matt. 23:4 For they (mainstream preachers of His time) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I think you are confused between what the Jews called the Law of Moses, and God's Commandments Jesus walked in that made Him perfect.

 

[Studyman]

You seem to be responding to me; but you are addressing Marcelo. I admit we are saying much the same thing; but we are different people.

What you seem not to understand is that we are in agreement on the need for obedience.

My position, and that of EG, Mailman Dan, and Marcelo is that the Law is NOT the way to get there. The indwelling Holy Spirit, by His work (NOT OUR'S) brings us to a place of obedience.

Any attempt to do it your self will fall short of God's standard!

My apologies for the name.

The Pharisees also talked the need for obedience. But they were transgressing the Commandments of God by their own traditions.

How can you say with a straight face that Mainstream Christianity doesn't transgress God's Laws by their own traditions?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My apologies for the name.

The Pharisees also talked the need for obedience. But they were transgressing the Commandments of God by their own traditions.

How can you say with a straight face that Mainstream Christianity doesn't transgress God's Laws by their own traditions?

How can you say they do? How can you say you do not? (Remember, Using GODS requirement, Not our own) Who is mainstream Christianity?

 

[MarcR]

How does the spirit do it?

Php 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV



12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


As we see from verse 13, this does NOT result from our own efforts. After we come to Salvation by God's grace through no effort of our own God has work He desires to do through our bodies.

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
KJV

So then: both our obedience, and the Work God has given us result from His empowerment not our effort:


13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Studyman]

Who is suggesting it is ok to transgress any law?

Quote "God's Laws are not for Christians"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Php 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV



12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


As we see from verse 13, this does NOT result from our own efforts. After we come to Salvation by God's grace through no effort of our own God has work He desires to do through our bodies.

Eph 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
KJV

So then: both our obedience, and the Work God has given us result from His empowerment not our effort:


13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So the Spirit empowers us,, I agree, it is not our work, it is Gods, We are told to come to him, and he will give us rest.

So how does the spirit teaching us and chastening us come onto our sanctification?

I hope your not offended by me asking you questions.. Seems that is an evil thing in here.