Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?
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When we come to Salvation through Grace alone, God accepts us into His family JUST AS WE ARE.
However God does not let us remain AS WE ARE.
Ro 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
KJV
This is not something we do. We are told to submit ourselves to the work of the Holy Spirit within us.
The implication is that we are able to resist the work oh the Holy Spirit and are told not to resist.
Ro 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
KJV
This conformation results from allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us.
God's chastening results from resisting the work of the Spirit.
I am never offended by questions. My gifting and my skills are to teach. My ministry and life's work have been in Christian education.
However God does not let us remain AS WE ARE.
Ro 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
KJV
This is not something we do. We are told to submit ourselves to the work of the Holy Spirit within us.
The implication is that we are able to resist the work oh the Holy Spirit and are told not to resist.
Ro 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
KJV
This conformation results from allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us.
God's chastening results from resisting the work of the Spirit.
I am never offended by questions. My gifting and my skills are to teach. My ministry and life's work have been in Christian education.
You asked a question and I answered it.
Rebellion to God's Commandments remains in me, and will until Jesus takes away the corruptible and makes it incorruptible.
Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Until then I am to "Rule over this natural rebellion" so that "sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) shall not have dominion over me. Jesus instructs me how to do this (Walk as He Walks) and gives me His Spiritual Helper to keep me in remembrance of who I am, and what Jesus did to give me a clean slate.
Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;(His Goodness,YES) but with the flesh the law of sin.(My flesh is crucified with Christ, and no longer leads me)
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
The Law of sin is death. My Flesh is dead to the Law and no longer rules over me. So I now "Serve" the Law of God.
Because as God showed through Abraham "13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
I don't believe it is loving Jesus by creating images of Him in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model, and then creating "Feasts unto the Lord" in worship of this image. Which is in direct disobedience to the first and Greatest Commandment.
I have Faith that when Jesus says something He speaks the truth.
When He says His Father's Holy Sabbath was created for man, I believe Him.
When you preach the Sabbath was not made for the Christians, which is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught, then I trust Jesus over your traditions and doctrines.
Why you would call Him Lord, Lord, and teach in direct contradiction to what He preached is troubling to me. I can only assume that you, like so many, many others Jesus warned about, have been tricked into believing a lie. (God's Commandments were NOT created for Christians)
As one who was once deceived in the same way, I have offered myself openly to show you this contradiction in the hopes that God might spark in you the desire to "test the spirits" using God's Word as your foundation. So far, my love towards you has only yielded scorn and scoffing which Jesus said would happen.
But maybe there is someone else reading these posts who will do the study.
Rebellion to God's Commandments remains in me, and will until Jesus takes away the corruptible and makes it incorruptible.
Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Until then I am to "Rule over this natural rebellion" so that "sin(Transgression of God's Commandments) shall not have dominion over me. Jesus instructs me how to do this (Walk as He Walks) and gives me His Spiritual Helper to keep me in remembrance of who I am, and what Jesus did to give me a clean slate.
Rom. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;(His Goodness,YES) but with the flesh the law of sin.(My flesh is crucified with Christ, and no longer leads me)
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
The Law of sin is death. My Flesh is dead to the Law and no longer rules over me. So I now "Serve" the Law of God.
Because as God showed through Abraham "13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
I don't believe it is loving Jesus by creating images of Him in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model, and then creating "Feasts unto the Lord" in worship of this image. Which is in direct disobedience to the first and Greatest Commandment.
I have Faith that when Jesus says something He speaks the truth.
When He says His Father's Holy Sabbath was created for man, I believe Him.
When you preach the Sabbath was not made for the Christians, which is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught, then I trust Jesus over your traditions and doctrines.
Why you would call Him Lord, Lord, and teach in direct contradiction to what He preached is troubling to me. I can only assume that you, like so many, many others Jesus warned about, have been tricked into believing a lie. (God's Commandments were NOT created for Christians)
As one who was once deceived in the same way, I have offered myself openly to show you this contradiction in the hopes that God might spark in you the desire to "test the spirits" using God's Word as your foundation. So far, my love towards you has only yielded scorn and scoffing which Jesus said would happen.
But maybe there is someone else reading these posts who will do the study.
I would say if God is the definer of "Moral Character" then this would be true. But if wicked man, through their own imaginations, define "Moral Character" then this would not be true. The reason I say this is because of Paul's words that you omitted.
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
So if you allow the God of the Bible to define "Moral Character" then it is easy to spot those who are of God.
But if you define your own laws and become a judge of God's Commandments choosing which ones are worthy of your respect, and which ones are not, then you become as those Jesus warned about.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These defined moral character from their own minds.
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. God's definition of immoral character..
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
So if you allow the God of the Bible to define "Moral Character" then it is easy to spot those who are of God.
But if you define your own laws and become a judge of God's Commandments choosing which ones are worthy of your respect, and which ones are not, then you become as those Jesus warned about.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These defined moral character from their own minds.
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. God's definition of immoral character..
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Did they have eternal life? No, which means they did not truly BELIEVE IN HIM (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..) even though they believed in His existence.
*Here is the obvious clue. These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
*John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. It wasn't about their works transgressing the law, but their lack of authentic faith.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to receive eternal life based on their works.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Did they have eternal life? No, which means they did not truly BELIEVE IN HIM (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31 etc..) even though they believed in His existence.
*Here is the obvious clue. These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
*John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. It wasn't about their works transgressing the law, but their lack of authentic faith.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain attempt to receive eternal life based on their works.
One difficulty in discussing anything with you is that you seem to be convinced that there is no possibility that you are mistaken.
There are basically three major groups or movements that teach that People can please God by their own efforts.
1) The Russelists who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. Started by Charles Russel in the late 19th century
2) The Seventh day Adventists Started by E. G. White in the late 19th century.
3) The Hebrew Roots movement Started by Rico Cortes less than 25 years ago
All three movements are the products of people teaching against the beliefs of mainstream Christian belief and practice.
2 Pe 1:20-2:2
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
KJV
So, we are faced with 2 possibilities:
1) God is such a poor communicator that He allowed His Church to languish in confusion for nearly 1900 years.
2) Mr Russel, Ms White, and Mr Cortes all got it wrong.
I find the first possibility totally unacceptable.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
E
Thanks, You just showed us why we must live under grace and not law. because we all STILL SIN and fall short of Gods presence. (Failed to live up to his standard)
Now. Why did you not answer my question? You made it sound like the people who say the law is not for christians was a sin, And I showed you where Paul made that very statement, are you admitting your error or not?
Now. Why did you not answer my question? You made it sound like the people who say the law is not for christians was a sin, And I showed you where Paul made that very statement, are you admitting your error or not?
=MarcR;3368010]
Maybe if you considered actually communicating about the point of my post and the scriptures I use, we could have a conversation. But you don't do that. You just try to place me in one of the folders you have created for all those who you disagree with.
And as I have said over and over, I do not belong to any organized religious franchise, nor do I adhere to any religious franchise owner's doctrines and traditions. So your attempt to place me in some category you created will not succeed as what I understand has been gained from fasting and study in the privacy of my own home, not some self proclaimed prophet.
Just because your religion preaches against having Faith enough in God to follow His instructions, doesn't make this Faith void. Abraham believe in God enough to obey Him and it was called Faith by the New Testament Apostles. In Fact, every single example of "Faith" in the bible were people who trusted God enough to do what He instructed. In many cases their God of Abraham believing brothers discouraged them from believing God, as was the case of Caleb. But with His Spirit their faith was strong enough to over come these naysayers.
Num. 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.
There is a 4th group of people that preach against transgressing the commandments of God by man made doctrines and traditions tradition's that you conveniently left out.
I know, like Mainstream Christianity, the JW and SDA also have traditions of men they adhere to over the Commandments of God so how are they any different that Mainstream Christianity?
I have never heard of Hebrew Roots before coming to this forum, but if they preach against a church that rejects God's instructions over their own traditions, then I must look into them.
Jesus, Paul, Moses, Abraham, Abel, Noah, Stephen, Peter, James, all these walked the same Path Jesus walked and taught. There are some who belong to this church, which I strive to belong to, and hope the same for all my brethren. They don't create images of God in the likeness of men that MC religion does. They never created High Days or Feast into the Lord that MC religion does. They never rejected God's Commandments and traded them for traditions and doctrines of men, like MC religion does.
God is perfectly clear about His Church, He says the same thing to people today that He said 2000 years ago. So it isn't God whose communication skills are lacking. It is now and has always been Man's ability to hear Him.
His church has not languished in confusion for 1900 years. Although small, His church has always been there. But there has always been a great religion that makes war with His True Church as it is written. From Jesus and Stephen who was killed by the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet, all the way back to Abel, who was killed by his "Christian" brother.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
"16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
"17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Does this mean I can Commit Adultery and be blameless if I do it in the Name of the Lord Jesus? Does this mean I can Steal and be blameless so long as I do it in the name of the Lord Jesus? Of course not, surely you are not saying this.
So then if transgressing the Commandments is not acceptable even if I do it in Christ's name. How is it created an image of God in the likeness of man, in Christ's name, OK with you?
How come is Transgressing the Commandments of God where His Holy Sabbath He created for man is Ok as long as you do it in His name.
I am easy to communicate with Marc, it's just that the Word of God cuts through all the confusion you speak of.
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
AS Jesus declared. "You shall know them by their fruits".
I talk about these difficult things in hopes of exposing for the Brethren what God/Jesus warned of so many times.
Maybe if you considered actually communicating about the point of my post and the scriptures I use, we could have a conversation. But you don't do that. You just try to place me in one of the folders you have created for all those who you disagree with.
And as I have said over and over, I do not belong to any organized religious franchise, nor do I adhere to any religious franchise owner's doctrines and traditions. So your attempt to place me in some category you created will not succeed as what I understand has been gained from fasting and study in the privacy of my own home, not some self proclaimed prophet.
Just because your religion preaches against having Faith enough in God to follow His instructions, doesn't make this Faith void. Abraham believe in God enough to obey Him and it was called Faith by the New Testament Apostles. In Fact, every single example of "Faith" in the bible were people who trusted God enough to do what He instructed. In many cases their God of Abraham believing brothers discouraged them from believing God, as was the case of Caleb. But with His Spirit their faith was strong enough to over come these naysayers.
Num. 14:23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.
There is a 4th group of people that preach against transgressing the commandments of God by man made doctrines and traditions tradition's that you conveniently left out.
I know, like Mainstream Christianity, the JW and SDA also have traditions of men they adhere to over the Commandments of God so how are they any different that Mainstream Christianity?
I have never heard of Hebrew Roots before coming to this forum, but if they preach against a church that rejects God's instructions over their own traditions, then I must look into them.
Jesus, Paul, Moses, Abraham, Abel, Noah, Stephen, Peter, James, all these walked the same Path Jesus walked and taught. There are some who belong to this church, which I strive to belong to, and hope the same for all my brethren. They don't create images of God in the likeness of men that MC religion does. They never created High Days or Feast into the Lord that MC religion does. They never rejected God's Commandments and traded them for traditions and doctrines of men, like MC religion does.
God is perfectly clear about His Church, He says the same thing to people today that He said 2000 years ago. So it isn't God whose communication skills are lacking. It is now and has always been Man's ability to hear Him.
His church has not languished in confusion for 1900 years. Although small, His church has always been there. But there has always been a great religion that makes war with His True Church as it is written. From Jesus and Stephen who was killed by the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet, all the way back to Abel, who was killed by his "Christian" brother.
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
"16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
"17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Does this mean I can Commit Adultery and be blameless if I do it in the Name of the Lord Jesus? Does this mean I can Steal and be blameless so long as I do it in the name of the Lord Jesus? Of course not, surely you are not saying this.
So then if transgressing the Commandments is not acceptable even if I do it in Christ's name. How is it created an image of God in the likeness of man, in Christ's name, OK with you?
How come is Transgressing the Commandments of God where His Holy Sabbath He created for man is Ok as long as you do it in His name.
I am easy to communicate with Marc, it's just that the Word of God cuts through all the confusion you speak of.
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
AS Jesus declared. "You shall know them by their fruits".
I talk about these difficult things in hopes of exposing for the Brethren what God/Jesus warned of so many times.