Did we lose the 'culture war'?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#21
P

psalm6819

Guest
#22
yes, it is sad but we as Christians sat and watched. I'm showing my age here but I remember saying the Pledge of Allegiance, "one nation under God" I remember America being respected in the world instead of villified. I remember whne we protected our unborn children. I remember when being a person of integrity was better than "being tolerant" I remember an America when right was right and wrong was wrong- no situational ethics but clearly understood values. A man's word was his bond. Men were men and women were women. Neighbors helped one another, common decency and courtesy were the norm. A time of personal responsibility (not everything is a disease) A time of freedom not giving up our rights for "the greatest good".

Such a shame that my kids will never know an American culture that honored God but instead a country that is becoming an abomination.

Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus...........
 
Last edited:

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
2,947
113
#23
Sadly, I ran into a current example about how our rights are being constantly eroded in Canada. There is a private Christian university, called Trinity Western University, near Vancouver BC. In the '90's, they had to fight to the Supreme Court for the right to have a teacher training program. It took years and a lot of money, but they finally won the right, and many have graduated.

Now they are trying to have a law school. It has been accredited, but every bar association in Canada has opposed it. Why? Because they make their students sign a contract that they will not engage in pre-marital sex, among other things. The LBGTQ people say that is discrimination against them. Despite the fact that there are gay and lesbian Christian students who have signed the contract and are in agreement with it.

So I read the following:

"OTTAWA – The Ontario Court of Appeal released its decision in Trinity Western University v. Law Society of Upper Canada today, upholding the Law Society’s decision to not accredit the Christian university’s law school. The Court ruled that the decision of the Law Society to infringe the religious freedom of TWU was reasonable.André Schutten, counsel for the Association for Reformed Political Action (ARPA) Canada expressed disappointment on the court’s ruling. “To find that religious freedom was infringed, as the court did, but then to rule that the infringement was justified despite evidence that the infringement was not necessary, is very troubling. The Law Society is a State actor, and as such, should not discriminate against minority Christian groups simply because their faith commitments may be unpopular."

ARPA Canada intervened in the case and made oral and written arguments focused exclusively on the section 15 equality rights of Christian individuals. “In court and in public debate, this dispute between TWU and the law society has been framed as equality rights of the LGBTQ community on one hand against the religious freedom rights of Christians on the other. But the section 15 equality right in the Charter also protects religious individuals. By denying accreditation to an approved law school simply because the students voluntarily sign onto a religious community covenant that some lawyers or judges find distasteful results in discrimination against Christian students,” Schutten says."


https://arpacanada.ca/news/2016/06/29/disappointing-ruling-twu-ontario-case/

This does not bode well, if discrimination against Christians is now being encoded by law!
 
Last edited:
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#24
We must remember the first True Christians lived under Roman Authority. Did they go out into the streets protesting the Roman Government? No. In fact Paul told us we are to OBEY the Roman Government and all its laws.

Too many so called christians today are trying to deceive us with their false doctrines and we have a lot of them on this chat site.
 
Aug 2, 2013
115
14
18
#25
The American church is losing the so-called culture war because she has been distracted by the notion political power is the avenue to changing the culture.

Note the success of the early church. This church was born into a polytheistic and pagan society with a depraved morality. Yet, in roughly 250 years Christianity became the legal religion of the empire.

America, on the other hand, was founded under a strong Christian influence, but in 250 years or by 2026 will Christianity even be legal in America?

Church Historian Henry Chadwick writes concerning the early church:
The paradox of the church was that it was a religious revolutionary movement, yet without a conscious political ideology; it aimed at the capture of society throughout all its strata, but was at the same time characteristic for its indifference to the possession of power in this world. Celsus [Greek philosopher and opponent of Christianity] was the first known person to realize that this non-political, quietist, and pacifist community had in its power to transform the social and political order of the empire (The Early Church, page 69).

The early church won the Roman Empire by living out Biblical teaching, while the American church has strived to change its culture by forcing its morals on society through political power, which is both immoral and has questionable Biblical support. The only hope for American Christianity to have a positive effect on its culture is for it to repent of its judgmental arrogance, and follow the Biblical teaching to love a lost and dying world.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#26
The Christians will not win against same sex marriage,for it will be out of their hands,and too big to reverse,which the Bible says the new age movement will become popular,and forbid the marriage of a man and a woman,for population reduction.

There are a lot of things besides same sex marriage that is against God's ways,but they are too big to deal with,and defeat.

Any religion can be practiced in America,including Satanism,and the occult,and witchcraft,but it is too big,and out of the hands of the saints to change it,so they do not raise too much of a fuss about it,for it is am lost cause.

They have worldliness galore,being able to enjoy money without limit,and material things,pornography,alcohol,cigarettes,worldly entertainment,and such,but it is too big,and out of the hands of the saints to change it,so they do not raise too much of a fuss about it,for it is a lost cause.

But homosexuality has not been as widespread,and going on as long as the above two,and still a lot of people against it,so the Christians think they might have a chance at having an effect concerning same sex marriage,but it too will get too big,and out of their hands,so eventually they will not raise too much of a fuss about it,for it too will be a lost cause.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#27
lost? no

surrendered? very likely...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#28
We must remember the first True Christians lived under Roman Authority. Did they go out into the streets protesting the Roman Government? No. In fact Paul told us we are to OBEY the Roman Government and all its laws.

Too many so called christians today are trying to deceive us with their false doctrines and we have a lot of them on this chat site.
That is from an already pagan culture. Our hope and desire is to be salt and light, not doormats, hoping to retard the ongoing retardation of our culture...whatever country or period it may be.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#29
The early church won the Roman Empire by living out Biblical teaching, while the American church has strived to change its culture by forcing its morals on society through political power, which is both immoral and has questionable Biblical support. The only hope for American Christianity to have a positive effect on its culture is for it to repent of its judgmental arrogance, and follow the Biblical teaching to love a lost and dying world.
Forcing it's morals? The country started out with a Christian moral fabric, it was humanism which has forced it's immoral agenda on society.
Loving the lost includes warning the lost of the impending judgment (both personal and cultural) which includes speaking out.
Judgmental arrogance? Meaning what? Seeking the good of others and a nation through the TRUTH is arrogant? I guess so in a relativistic culture that has lost any sense of truth, right and wrong, good and evil.
 
Aug 13, 2013
965
8
18
#30
If you are a true Christian you never obey evil no matter what law. Period.

We must remember the first True Christians lived under Roman Authority. Did they go out into the streets protesting the Roman Government? No. In fact Paul told us we are to OBEY the Roman Government and all its laws.

Too many so called christians today are trying to deceive us with their false doctrines and we have a lot of them on this chat site.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#31
I have seen some horrendous scenes in the news following the latest massacrer. With people from church (small c intended) with banners saying the perpetrator was from God and sent to punish the evil doers. If we focus on what the world is doing this will always happen. If we focus on Jesus then no matter what, Jesus will do what He wants.

I came across a post on here that said "God has no taste". God does not look for the finer things, God doesn't look at what we wear or drive or which school or university we went to, God doesn't look at our houses or our bank account. And I can prove God has no taste, because He loves me.

If we do not show the love of God to everyone we meet then we are not doing His commands. Gay, lesbian, transgender, it does not matter we have to love them all. It has already been said on here we can not judge those who do not know Christ, I would take it a step further and say why should we judge those who do? why judge at all? I know from experience that if God wants to change someone He can, without my shouting and balling. If anything I would probably get in the way.

None of us can say we live in a Christian country, there is no such thing. I am a Christian and I live in my country. I will never force my will on any other (hopefully), I will always try and focus on Jesus so I don't see any splinters or planks or anything else in my brothers eye or in any one else's eye for that matter. We are called to be salt and light. simple really.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
I have learned lately, the way to change culture is not to judge it, That's Gods job, But to win it to Christ.. We win culture, and make it adhere to christian values by winning people to Christ, and thus allowing God to change their thinking.. Not by trying to change the worlds thinking, to win them to Christ.

I know quite a few ladies who had abortions pre conversion to Christ, who after coming to Christ realized what they had done, A few it took them down hard. A few. or pushed them to be advocates for the children, to preach other ways (adopt the child out) Which can be done without trying to and force a christian value down someones throat. And they have seen some success..

It is a hard line to draw.. how far and to what extent do we preach and support christian values without being judgmental, and when do we cross over that line to be like Westboro Baptist?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#33
The culture is a strange thing.

It looks one way to one person and entirely different to another.


We should be the ones influencing our culture. But culture is mostly a bunch of flesh driven narcissists doing what flesh driven narcissists do. Why would they have any interest in denying self or becoming as a child??? Why would anyone, unless they are led to?

The culture is dumb. And it purposely wants to stay that way.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
The culture is a strange thing.

It looks one way to one person and entirely different to another.


We should be the ones influencing our culture. But culture is mostly a bunch of flesh driven narcissists doing what flesh driven narcissists do. Why would they have any interest in denying self or becoming as a child??? Why would anyone, unless they are led to?

The culture is dumb. And it purposely wants to stay that way.
Scripture calls that the "kosmos" or "world" System..

It is apposed to God.. Take God out of people. and thats what you have.. is a lawless, sinless culture..
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#35
Well, we've turned our children over to the state to raise and teach. Should we be surprised? We have an educational system that indoctrinates our children in "political correctness" from day one. And if they go on to higher education, God help them.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,241
6,532
113
#36
Do not be surprised if the times are just as they were before Noah in the ark, for so it is written it is to be before our Lord returns for us all. I do not believe any country "called the West" is exempt from this hedonistic course.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ and those who will be, amen.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#37
You cannot legislate righteousness. Righteousness must be created in the heart by the Holy Spirit of God.

Christians change society by living for the Lord. Christians need to be holy as the Lord is holy. Christians need to crave purity and not wickedness.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Ours is not to tell others how to live but to show them by living right before our God and Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#38
I have seen some horrendous scenes in the news following the latest massacrer. With people from church (small c intended) with banners saying the perpetrator was from God and sent to punish the evil doers. If we focus on what the world is doing this will always happen. If we focus on Jesus then no matter what, Jesus will do what He wants.

I came across a post on here that said "God has no taste". God does not look for the finer things, God doesn't look at what we wear or drive or which school or university we went to, God doesn't look at our houses or our bank account. And I can prove God has no taste, because He loves me.

If we do not show the love of God to everyone we meet then we are not doing His commands. Gay, lesbian, transgender, it does not matter we have to love them all. It has already been said on here we can not judge those who do not know Christ, I would take it a step further and say why should we judge those who do? why judge at all? I know from experience that if God wants to change someone He can, without my shouting and balling. If anything I would probably get in the way.

None of us can say we live in a Christian country, there is no such thing. I am a Christian and I live in my country. I will never force my will on any other (hopefully), I will always try and focus on Jesus so I don't see any splinters or planks or anything else in my brothers eye or in any one else's eye for that matter. We are called to be salt and light. simple really.
I hope you don't take the same approach with your children, who, btw, are part of society.
I also hope 'showing love' includes speaking the truth as well as showing acts of kindness.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#39
I hope you don't take the same approach with your children, who, btw, are part of society.
I also hope 'showing love' includes speaking the truth as well as showing acts of kindness.
What have I written that should produce your reaction? Do I love my children? yes. I follow what Jesus taught and teach them as we are supposed to. I show Jesus so when they are older they can make an informed choice. I don't quite understand your words. If you mean that loving everyone is wrong then say so.

A homosexual is still someone Jesus died for, Jesus came to save sinners, but they are dead to God until they believe, if they do not or chose not to believe that is there choice. Their actions are their own and they will face judgement for them, but not from me.

How do you treat your children?
 
Aug 2, 2013
115
14
18
#40
Forcing it's morals? The country started out with a Christian moral fabric, it was humanism which has forced it's immoral agenda on society.
You’ve made my point. Although our country began with a correct moral compass, it has lost its way. Since humanism appeals to the unregenerate mind, it isn’t surprising it has been so successful. The problem is that Christianity has chosen the wrong battles. Rather than recognizing its strength is the power of the Gospel and using that power to change the hearts and minds of individuals, Christians instead have chosen to force moral obedience through political force, and they’ve lost. The Early Church was the most successful church in history with regard to winning a culture over to Christianity, and they did it without relying on forcing the change through politics.

Loving the lost includes warning the lost of the impending judgment (both personal and cultural) which includes speaking out.
Absolutely. Fire and brimstone is very much part of the Gospel. The Early Church never pulled punches while criticizing the morals of Roman society. The pagans accused the Christians of incest, cannibalism and child sacrifice etc. The Apologist denied those accusations and were quick to point out that it was the pagans who were dumping off their unwanted newborns at the garbage dumps, and that it was the Christians who were rescuing the babies and giving them life. Christian writers didn’t hesitate to deride the pagans for the cruelty of abortion and point out that abortion wasn’t practiced by Christians. The Apologist turned the table on the pagans by denying their accusations and pointing out that instead it was the pagans who were practicing immoral acts.

The early Christians couldn’t and didn’t force their morals on the society. Instead they humbly practiced Biblical principles and by so doing put the nail in the coffin of paganism. It was common practice for the Early Christians to take care of the widow, orphan and poor. When the plague (possibly measles or mumps) came to Rome and many were dying the able populace left town, leaving the sick to die of starvation and dehydration. However, the Christians stayed to nurse the sick—Christian and pagan—to health. Christian piety was so wide spread by the reign of Julian the Apostate (as emperor Julian was determined to restore paganism to the empire) that he complained that it was disgraceful that the Christians were supporting not only their poor but the pagan poor as well while the pagans were doing little or nothing in this area. It was by living out Biblical teaching and by the willingness to witness to their pagan neighbors through their blood that the early Christians won the culture war in their society. It was not by forcing their morals on their society through political means.

Judgmental arrogance? Meaning what?
My point is against forcing the unregenerate populace in our society to keep Biblical morals through winning political battles. The only way Christians can keep Biblical morals is through the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit. This concept is totally foreign to our pagan neighbors and it is arrogant to expect them to accept and keep our morals, especially when they see Evangelical Christianity struggling to keep them ourselves. This totally turns them off to the Christian message. They see us as judgmental and as hypocrites. Jesus said, “I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mt. 9:13). What will influence our society toward Christ is Christians practicing Biblical compassion and love.

Paul wrote, “But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? [SUP]13 [/SUP]But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” (1 Cor. 5:11-13). If Christians want to win the culture war, we must stop judging our unregenerate neighbors and show them compassion instead. If we’re concerned about immorality, it would be good if we followed Paul’s advice and cleaned our own house and gave the world an example to follow.