Do people burn in hell forever?

[JairCrawford]

The Word has verses that allude to both. Some verses can be enterpreted as Hell being an eternal -state- of destruction and justice that the soul doesn't survive after the lake of fire.

But other verses seem to emphasize eternal torment.

So my answer is, I'm not sure. But regardless I would much prefer eternal Life in Heaven to either.

 

[Angela53510]

I try and look forward to my life with Jesus! And although I think the preaching of hell and consequences for sin can be important, I don't think that is often. Too many crooked "hellfire and damnation" have ruined that angle of evangelization.

Annihilationism is espoused by several scholars that I know of, who are evangelical and orthodox. I've read some of their books. On the other hand, that still leaves us with the problem of the verses which talk about eternal damnation.

In the end, I probably opt for a real helll. I have no idea whether it will burn out or not. Seriously, what would be the point of punishing people and then destroying them, anyway, which is one form of annilationism? On the other hand, does God really want to have this place in his universe with hell and people burning millions of years in the future? What would be the purpose?

I've had visions of hell, before I was saved. It did not in any way turn me to Christ. What did turn me to Christ, besides the power of God, was the passion of the people who served him. At least, it got me into the Bible, for the first time since I was a child. And God just took it from there.

 

[Danoded]

I try and look forward to my life with Jesus! And although I think the preaching of hell and consequences for sin can be important, I don't think that is often. Too many crooked "hellfire and damnation" have ruined that angle of evangelization.

Annihilationism is espoused by several scholars that I know of, who are evangelical and orthodox. I've read some of their books. On the other hand, that still leaves us with the problem of the verses which talk about eternal damnation.

In the end, I probably opt for a real helll. I have no idea whether it will burn out or not. Seriously, what would be the point of punishing people and then destroying them, anyway, which is one form of annilationism? On the other hand, does God really want to have this place in his universe with hell and people burning millions of years in the future? What would be the purpose?

I've had visions of hell, before I was saved. It did not in any way turn me to Christ. What did turn me to Christ, besides the power of God, was the passion of the people who served him. At least, it got me into the Bible, for the first time since I was a child. And God just took it from there.

And where do you believe these workers of iniquity should reside instead? They have reaped what they have sown.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They will be raised at the white throne judgment. But until that happens, they remain dead (Ecc 9:5-6, 10).

Ecc.9:5-6 does not support soul sleep.

The rich man and Lazarus: We have the account of the rich man and Lazarus which has two men dying with their spirits departing and ending up in Sheol/Hades. The scripture is clear that Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints, were in a place of comfort/paradise, where the rich man was in a place of torment in flame, with both areas being separated by a great gulf or chasm. The rich man had all of his senses, for he could see Father Abraham and was having a conversation with him. The rich man also said that he was suffering in this flame," and asked to send Lazarus back to his father's house to warn his brothers that they would not come to that same place of torment.

Many people ask for proof and when they are presented with the account of the rich man and Lazarus, they refer to it as being a parable, which is really just a way of circumventing the truth, getting rid of the evidence.

The fact of the matter is that, we have plenty of scriptures demonstrating conscious awareness of the spirit after death.

Today you will be with me in paradise: When the thief next to Jesus said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," Jesus said to him "today you will be with me in paradise." Since both Jesus and that man died that very day, what did Jesus mean regarding them being in paradise. When both their bodies died, their spirits departed and went down to Sheol/Hades to that same area where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort, which is supported by Psalm 16:10 which says, "For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor let your holy one see corruption." This scripture is saying that God will not leave the Lord's spirit in Sheol nor will he allow his body to see decay. Though Jesus and the thief's body were dead, their spirits departed and were in Sheol/Hades in that place of paradise.

Moses and Elijah: After Peter, John and James had seen the Lord in his glorified state, Moses and Elijah appeared. Though Elijah has never died, Moses certainly did and yet there he was appearing with Christ on the mountain. Someone forgot to tell him that he is supposed to be in the grave where he knows nothing.

I saw the souls of those under the altar: At the opening of the 5th seal, John sees the souls under the altar, who are having a conversation with the Lord and who are also given white robes to wear and told that they must wait a little longer (for their resurrection).

"But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it." - Rev.5:3

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:'To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!' ”

"

Phil.2:9-11 – “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee would bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earthand every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

If those under the earth, i.e. the spirits in Sheol/Hades are unconscious and no nothing, how could they kneel, bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

II Corinthians 5:6-8 –“Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

Phil.1:22-24 – “If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.”

According to the scriptures above, to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord. Needless to say, one would have to be conscious and aware in order to experience being in the presence of the Lord.

The vengeance of eternal fire is death

The key to understanding this is knowing what scripture defines as what the state of death is. That said, life and death are both states of conscious existence with life referring to ones state of existence with God and death being a state of existence in separation from God. Death does not infer annihilation or extinction.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus taught it.

Mr 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Not wise to bet against it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And the smoke of their torment shall ascend forever before the throne.......Whatsoever God does, it is everlasting.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I try and look forward to my life with Jesus! And although I think the preaching of hell and consequences for sin can be important, I don't think that is often. Too many crooked "hellfire and damnation" have ruined that angle of evangelization.

Annihilationism is espoused by several scholars that I know of, who are evangelical and orthodox. I've read some of their books. On the other hand, that still leaves us with the problem of the verses which talk about eternal damnation.

In the end, I probably opt for a real helll. I have no idea whether it will burn out or not. Seriously, what would be the point of punishing people and then destroying them, anyway, which is one form of annilationism? On the other hand, does God really want to have this place in his universe with hell and people burning millions of years in the future? What would be the purpose?

I've had visions of hell, before I was saved. It did not in any way turn me to Christ. What did turn me to Christ, besides the power of God, was the passion of the people who served him. At least, it got me into the Bible, for the first time since I was a child. And God just took it from there.

I used to believe that if everyone just had a 30 second view of hell they would repent.......well....then I started reading the word and studying the word....the rich man in hell while burning in torment still refuses to believe the message and that the word of God will work......If they will not hear the word, they will not believe though one rises from the dead....and one did rise from the dead.....the power is in the message and the accompanying Spirit.....not circumstance and or the impending doom of hell......IMO

 

[shrume]

Only the cults turn to Ecclesiastes for their doctrine on the afterlife. So move forward a few hundred pages until you come to the words of Christ (who is God and knows all things).

So for you, Ecclesiastes is not the word of God?

Nothing Jesus said contradicts what is written in Ecclesiastes.

And who would not want a death where there is no conscious existence? Just a "pure dreamless sleep"?

While the Bible uses sleep an an analogy for death, there is a difference between the two. When you're sleeping, you will wake up. When you're dead at the second death, you won't.

If what you say is true, then we can make anything mean anything else.

Gigantic straw man.

Seriously, how can God's vengeance be experienced by evildoers if they are slumbering peacefully in death?

Evil doers will suffer before they die. Some more then others. But even the devil himself will eventually be "brought to ashes", and "never be any more" (Eze 28:18-19).

 

[shrume]

I try and look forward to my life with Jesus! And although I think the preaching of hell and consequences for sin can be important, I don't think that is often. Too many crooked "hellfire and damnation" have ruined that angle of evangelization.

Annihilationism is espoused by several scholars that I know of, who are evangelical and orthodox. I've read some of their books. On the other hand, that still leaves us with the problem of the verses which talk about eternal damnation.

In the end, I probably opt for a real helll. I have no idea whether it will burn out or not. Seriously, what would be the point of punishing people and then destroying them, anyway, which is one form of annilationism? On the other hand, does God really want to have this place in his universe with hell and people burning millions of years in the future? What would be the purpose?

I've had visions of hell, before I was saved. It did not in any way turn me to Christ. What did turn me to Christ, besides the power of God, was the passion of the people who served him. At least, it got me into the Bible, for the first time since I was a child. And God just took it from there.

A good book on the subject is "The Fire That Consumes" by Edward Fudge.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So for you, Ecclesiastes is not the word of God?

Nothing Jesus said contradicts what is written in Ecclesiastes.


While the Bible uses sleep an an analogy for death, there is a difference between the two. When you're sleeping, you will wake up. When you're dead at the second death, you won't.


Gigantic straw man.


Evil doers will suffer before they die. Some more then others. But even the devil himself will eventually be "brought to ashes", and "never be any more" (Eze 28:18-19).

Hello Shrume! Regarding sleep vs. conscious awareness of the spirit after death, see post #64

 

[shrume]

Ecc.9:5-6 does not support soul sleep.

Ecc 9:5-6, 10 define some of the characteristics of death.

The rich man and Lazarus: We have the account of the rich man and Lazarus which has two men dying with their spirits departing and ending up in Sheol/Hades. The scripture is clear that Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints, were in a place of comfort/paradise, where the rich man was in a place of torment in flame, with both areas being separated by a great gulf or chasm. The rich man had all of his senses, for he could see Father Abraham and was having a conversation with him. The rich man also said that he was suffering in this flame," and asked to send Lazarus back to his father's house to warn his brothers that they would not come to that same place of torment.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, the point of which is verse 31.

Many people ask for proof and when they are presented with the account of the rich man and Lazarus, they refer to it as being a parable, which is really just a way of circumventing the truth, getting rid of the evidence.

The truth is that the record in Luke 16:19ff is indeed a parable, and the truth is that when people die, they are dead.

There are several verses that state that in death people cannot praise the Lord. (Ps 6:5; 30:9; 49:12; 88:11-12; 115:17; Isa 38:18; more).

Why can't they praise the Lord when they are dead? Because they are dead.

The fact of the matter is that, we have plenty of scriptures demonstrating conscious awareness of the spirit after death.

Today you will be with me in paradise: When the thief next to Jesus said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," Jesus said to him "today you will be with me in paradise." Since both Jesus and that man died that very day, what did Jesus mean regarding them being in paradise. When both their bodies died, their spirits departed and went down to Sheol/Hades to that same area where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort, which is supported by Psalm 16:10 which says, "For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor let your holy one see corruption." This scripture is saying that God will not leave the Lord's spirit in Sheol nor will he allow his body to see decay. Though Jesus and the thief's body were dead, their spirits departed and were in Sheol/Hades in that place of paradise.

The comma is in the wrong place.

Luke 23:
43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

As you noted, both Jesus and the thief died that day. Three days and three nights later, the Father raised Jesus from the dead. The thief is still dead, awaiting resurrection into the kingdom.

Psalm 16:10 refers to Jesus' being resurrected by the Father, which happened three days and three nights after he died.

People do not separate into various parts at death, with part of them dying but another part continuing to live. When a person dies, the person is dead, and he will remain dead until either the rapture or one of the 2 resurrections.

Moses and Elijah: After Peter, John and James had seen the Lord in his glorified state, Moses and Elijah appeared. Though Elijah has never died, Moses certainly did and yet there he was appearing with Christ on the mountain. Someone forgot to tell him that he is supposed to be in the grave where he knows nothing.

The transfiguration was a vision.

Matt 17:
9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

I saw the souls of those under the altar: At the opening of the 5th seal, John sees the souls under the altar, who are having a conversation with the Lord and who are also given white robes to wear and told that they must wait a little longer (for their resurrection).

"But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it." - Rev.5:3

"Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:'To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!' ”

All visions given to John concerning the future.

Phil.2:9-11 – “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee would bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earthand every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Yep. Eventually everyone, saved or not, living or dead, will stand before Jesus Christ.

If those under the earth, i.e. the spirits in Sheol/Hades are unconscious and no nothing, how could they kneel, bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord?

They will be resurrected.

II Corinthians 5:6-8 –“Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

I want that to happen too! For Christians, it will happen when Christ returns to gather his church at the rapture. It does not happen at death. Paul did not have a death wish.

Phil.1:22-24 – “If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.”

Paul knew that whether he lived or died, the gospel would spread. But what he really wanted was for Jesus to return, so he would depart and be with the Lord.

According to the scriptures above, to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord. Needless to say, one would have to be conscious and aware in order to experience being in the presence of the Lord.

I know you're very headstrong, and cannot accept this, but you are misunderstanding those scripture.

The key to understanding this is knowing what scripture defines as what the state of death is. That said, life and death are both states of conscious existence with life referring to ones state of existence with God and death being a state of existence in separation from God. Death does not infer annihilation or extinction.

That is the orthodox teaching on what death is. But that is not what the Bible teaches.

When people die, they are dead. They are not alive in any way, shape, or form. They are dead. And if it were not for the coming rapture and resurrections, they would remain dead. There is no "immortal soul".

(Before all the accusations start flying, I am not a JW or a member of SDA).

 

[shrume]

Hello Shrume! Regarding sleep vs. conscious awareness of the spirit after death, see post #64

Howdy, Ahwatukee! I've read it, and responded.

 

[Adstar]

Yes humans will burn in the Eternal lake of fire for ever and ever..

Biblical backed explaination follows::

Revelation 20: KJV
10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The False prophet is a man and in the above verse He is not consumed and eliminated by being in the Lake of Fire, he is tormented and and night for ever and ever.. I also believe the Beast is a man who will also share the same eternal torment..

Note in context this verse happens 1000 years after the Beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire.. The devil will be cast into the Lake of Fire 1000 years after the beast and the false prophet are.. So in the above verse the beast and the false prophet have been in the Lake of fire in torment for 1000 years already without being consumed or eliminated..

The following scriptures that provide context:::


Revelation 19: KJV
19 "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. {20} And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."



Revelation 20: KJV
7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. {10} And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[JesusLives]

Satan lied to Eve when he said she wouldn't die if she ate the fruit. But something did die in that they knew they were naked and then hid from God a fear had come over them and their innocence was gone. They literally did die many years later. So does God lie when He says the wages of sin is death.

Many Bible verses say the righteous live eternally but the wicked are destroyed and will be ashes under your feet. How can they be ashes if they don't die and burn up?

The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Who lied satan or God.... Where in the Bible does it state the wicked will live eternally?

The Bible even tells us who lied -

John 8:44 New King James Version (NKJV)[SUP]44 [/SUP]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

 

[OneFaith]

I can’t believe such a basic thing is being questioned. 2 Thessalonians 1:9- “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and separated from the presence of God.”

 

[Johnny_B]

I believe that people that go to hell suffer a second death and cease to exist in the eyes of God. They are certainly not going to be tortured in hell burning for all eternity. Only a cruel god would do such a thing but God is Love and has a more merciful solution.

You are right, only a cruel god would do such a thing, but the holy, righteous, omniscient God of the earth would and will, because He is the judge of the earth and all that are on it.

Genesis 18:25 “Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?”

Psalm 75:6-8 “For not from the east or from the westand not from the wilderness comes lifting up,7 but it is God who executes judgment,putting down one and lifting up another.8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cupwith foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it,and all the wicked of the earthshall drain it down to the dregs.”

Psalm 82:8 “Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”

Jesus is this righteous judge, Matthew 16:27“For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.”

His more merciful solution is Jesus, but men love thier wickedness rather then the light and God gives them what they want for eternity with the penality of breaking His holy standard, His commandments. They did not want God on earth and in His love He gives them that for eternity.

John 3:18-20 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.”

"Not sure."

I am quite certain that it will not be physical pain and physical fire. Bodies will be different.

I am not sure whether it will last without end or whether it will end by total destruction (after some time).

Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Ha ha! Come on people. 16 posts and this issue is as clear as mud to me.

I've always been in the "No" camp, believing as Tourist describes above in post #2 that we die a second death and cease to exist. But then I read Bogadile's post #11 that points to "Yes" being the correct answer. And I have a hard time refuting it. Especially considering the wording of Matthew 25:46.

But then I read JesusLives comment in post #12 and I again think "No" really is the answer.

I think I'm more confused and uncertain about this that I was when I got up this morning! Clearly I need help.

Not only does Isaiah say that thier fire is never quenched, but Jude calls it eternal fire, when writting about the punishment of false teachers in,

Jude 1:7 “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.”

Jesus call the sentance, "enternal punishment" in,

Matthew 18:8-9 “And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”

Eternal fire in Matthew 25:41, 45-46 “And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.....45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Paul writes that those who do not obey the Gospel, "they will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction," in

II Thessalonians 1:5-10 “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.”

Hebrews 6:1-2 “Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.”

These Scriptures speak of eternal fire, eternal punishment, eternal destruction, and eternal judgement, away from the presents of the Lord.

 

[FrankLee]

I believe that people that go to hell suffer a second death and cease to exist in the eyes of God. They are certainly not going to be tortured in hell burning for all eternity. Only a cruel god would do such a thing but God is Love and has a more merciful solution.

The Bible is very clear. If you set aside any of God's word at all you cannot pretend that God will conform to your idea of how things ought to be. Denying something neither changes it or does away with it.

As far as the unchsngeableness of God's word;

Ecclesiastes 3:14 KJVS
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it , that men should fear before him.

There are multiple scriptures witnessing the finality of hell. You have a Bible what does it say. Just like those that are practicing homosexuality, adultery and other uncleanness that twist the word of God to attempt to make evil good and good evil. They deceive themselves and receive the punishment for that. They are without excuse who attempts to change the meaning of any scripture.

A false definition of God's love says God will not punish those that defy Him and live in sin contrary to His word.



Galatians 6:7 KJVS
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

There will not be a rainbow at life's end for those that practice things against the commandments and written word of God.

Choose this day whom you will serve. Hell indeed is forever just as is written.

Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 

[Prov910]

Yes humans will burn in the Eternal lake of fire for ever and ever..

Biblical backed explaination follows::

Revelation 20: KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The False prophet is a man and in the above verse He is not consumed and eliminated by being in the Lake of Fire, he is tormented and and night for ever and ever.. I also believe the Beast is a man who will also share the same eternal torment..

((NOTE: I added Rev. 20:7-9 (KJV) to your post above, for context. Also, I added emphasis (bold, underlined) to different parts of the verses than you had in your post.))

Deceived humans burning in the lake of fire forever? Heh, that's not how I read Rev. 20. I understand that the beast and the false prophet burn in the lake of fire forever. That much is clear from Rev. 20:10. But I don't read those passages to mean that the deceived humans burn in the lake forever.

Rev. 20:8-9 seem to say that the deceived humans ("them") following Satan are consumed by "fire [that] came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

So I guess it boils down to, when God sends fire from heaven to "devour" deceived humans, what happens to them? Do they live in torment forever, or do they die? I'm inclined to think that when God devours someone with fire, they cease to exist. That's how I read it anyway. /jmho

=======================

As for Satan, is it possible that Satan ate from the Tree of Life, and therefore his spirit will live even though he is cast into the lake of fire? But the deceived humans have mortal spirits that are devoured by fire out of heaven from God? I'm not sure about the Beast and the False Prophet... Just spitballing here.

 

[Prov910]

Isaiah 66:23-24
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Not only does Isaiah say that thier fire is never quenched, but Jude calls it eternal fire, when writting about the punishment of false teachers in,

((Note: I added Isaiah 66:23 to your post for context.))

If you read Isaiah 66:23 it says that "all flesh" will come to worship him. If non-believers went to Hell and were tormented forever, wouldn't that be flesh that doesn't come to worship Him? It seems to me that the flesh that doesn't worship God will be destroyed. Destroyed by a fire that shall not be quenched. That would make "all flesh will come to worship him" a true statement.

Jude 1:6-7
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Jesus call the sentance, "enternal punishment" in,

((Note: I added Jude 1:6 to your post for context.))

From Jude 1:6 you can tell he is talking about the Angels, and using Sodom and Gomorrah as an example. He says They (Sodom and Gomorrah) serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire (fallen Angels). That's my take on it anyway. /jmho

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You quoted a LOT of scripture in your post—which is great! But I only had time to look at these two. Perhaps the others, taken in context, lean toward eternal torture in hell. These two, IMHO, don't.

>> Gotta get crackin' on work stuff. Godspeed to you!

 

[garee]

The Bible is very clear. If you set aside any of God's word at all you cannot pretend that God will conform to your idea of how things ought to be. Denying something neither changes it or does away with it.

As far as the unchsngeableness of God's word;

Ecclesiastes 3:14 KJVS
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it , that men should fear before him.

There are multiple scriptures witnessing the finality of hell. You have a Bible what does it say. Just like those that are practicing homosexuality, adultery and other uncleanness that twist the word of God to attempt to make evil good and good evil. They deceive themselves and receive the punishment for that. They are without excuse who attempts to change the meaning of any scripture.

A false definition of God's love says God will not punish those that defy Him and live in sin contrary to His word.



Galatians 6:7 KJVS
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

There will not be a rainbow at life's end for those that practice things against the commandments and written word of God.

Choose this day whom you will serve. Hell indeed is forever just as is written.

Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I would look at the second death and the rising of a new spirit that will never die a little differently.

Second death...Dead is dead .Life is life

Can't clump together obvious sin like homosexuality or other visually identified doctrines with you own private interpretation of what you think hell is . That would be like comparing sexual preference to slavery which had to do with treating people differently because of how much melon as skin pigmentation they had.

I would think the bible would define the words and phrases used within. God’s law book the Bible spells it out real clear using the Jonas parable. Hell is the living suffering and tribulations we go through in this life when a person denies the faithful Creators perfect law called sinning .

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

The word hell is used 54 times and not once to indicate someone was literally dead and still suffering..

But hell is always used in respect to the land of the living. Dead people cannot do the work of suffering. Even though some invented away to ease the sufferings of hell of this life, not trusting in Christ but a place called purgatory or limbo. How low can they go?.

When mankind suffered to do the will of another (the serpent) Adam and Eve tried to take away the suffering and attempted to cover their own hell. Their covering was not sufficient..

Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering. Job 26:6

When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me; 2Sa 22:5

If a person has not received the new eternal Spirit of Christ, the born again Spirit of God therefore having passed from death to new life . When they experience the second death their temporal spirit (70-80 years ) returns to the father who gave it .

The flesh and blood return to the lifeless, spiritless rudiments of this world it was taken from

Christ as the Son of man died the second death to show his living sufferings of hell satisfied the just demands of the perfect law of God. it is why the flesh was used was typified as sinful in so much that it was corrupted, aged in a decaying process leading to total destruction.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The phrase “the heart of the earth” speaks of the “belly of the whale” the tribulations of this life. God is not pictured as dying for our sins. He cannot die. he remains without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof. Death as an outward demonstration showing he poured out His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit.

Dead is dead never to rise to new spirit, new heart life forever more. .

God does not punish people because he did not have mercy and grace on them . Its the father of lies that accuses the brethren day and night. He is the god of the dead.

 

[Prov910]

I can’t believe such a basic thing is being questioned. 2 Thessalonians 1:9- “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and separated from the presence of God.”

Or you could bold another word in that verse: “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and separated from the presence of God.” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Does the verse you quoted say unbelievers are permanently destroyed (everlasting destruction)? Or does it say they are kept alive and tortured (everlasting torment)?