Do we decide to be saved?

[carl11]

Well, Calvinism's P point says if you're truly saved you will always endure to the end.

actually it says those who endure to the end will be saved.

 

[posthuman]

I don't get the mass paranoia that surrounds even the smallest possibility that we may have a say in our salvation.

it's basically a result of brutally honest self evaluation.

if it is up to me, chances of me messing it up are astronomical.

 

[LW97]

actually it says those who endure to the end will be saved.

Yeah, and that's not eternal security. Therefore calvinism (and hobbesism) does NOT teach eternal security

 

[Lighthearted]

Where can you show biblical proof that ppl have visions today? I know ppl will readily jump to Acts 2:17. But in the book of Acts, ppl are raised from the dead, Peter raised Dorcas and Paul raised Eutychus. Ppl laid in the street hoping Peter's shadow would fall upon them as he passed by. I guess they were healed by his shadow, but not for sure if they were. Ppl were healed by Paul's handkerchiefs and aprons he touched. Cornelius had a vision. A crippled man was healed and he ran and leaped for joy.

So, if ppl are going to use Acts 2:17 as 'proof' that visions are for today, then the other miracles during this Apolstolic age are still viable.

I just don't see crippled ppl being touched and they raise and walk. I don't see the dead coming to life by the touch of another person. Ppl aren't cured by clothing that has been prayed over. Churches around here grossly abuse this practice.

I am a cessatioinst, and these gifts were for the purpose of establishing the church, and when the last Apostle died, these gifts ceased, imo.

SG, I have been raised with several Baptist and several Pentecostal and some dispensational teachings. The differences in all Christian denominations differ in some aspects...but through them all there is a common tie...Jesus Christ and Grace. The Bible says that under the blood of Christ we are one body. I have a personal relationship and call Jesus friend. I believe we still speak in tongue and prophesy in part. It is a very personal belief because I believe and have knowledge it is truth written on my heart. He uses me. I have had visions very much to do with my calling so I would understand what that good work is that He's made me for. I do not ask to believe. That may not be their walk or calling. There are others who share the same visions. That is why I disagreed.
I love ya brother.

 

[carl11]

Yeah, and that's not eternal security. Therefore calvinism (and hobbesism) does NOT teach eternal security

Ok but we have to define what does it mean to endure to the end and what are we enduring. Likewise eternal security what does that mean also.

 

[LW97]

Ok but we have to define what does it mean to endure to the end and what are we enduring. Likewise eternal security what does that mean also.

Well, all I can say is that eternal security is NOT a licesen to sin. God bless.

Enduring to the end... if you read Matthew 24 and Mark 13 in context, you will find out to which time that applies

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Belief is an evidence of salvation, not the cause.

One is not saved, i.e. born again of the Spirit, until one believes as evidenced in the context of John 3. Also as evidenced by Ephesians 1:14 - hear, believe, receive, i.e. sealed.

But we have had this conversation many times!

 

[carl11]

Well, all I can say is that eternal security is NOT a licesen to sin. God bless.

Enduring to the end... if you read Matthew 24 and Mark 13 in context, you will find out to which time that applies

I believe you may be mistaken in the fact that they do not believe eternal security is a license to sin.

I understand the definition of enduring to the end.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Remain? What do you mean?

Regardless of all afflictions, trials, tribulations, vicissitudes, and martyrdoms, trust in the grace of God through Christ and His finished work of redemption must remain and prevail in every believer's life. If it was genuine faith to begin with. As Scripture says we are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Likewise eternal security what does that mean also.

Eternal security is very simple -- Christ in you the hope of glory. And you in Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Also, not sure what you mean by "backslide."

 

[SovereignGrace]

One is not saved, i.e. born again of the Spirit, until one believes as evidenced in the context of John 3. Also as evidenced by Ephesians 1:14 - hear, believe, receive, i.e. sealed.

But we have had this conversation many times!

And yet the ability to believe comes from God.[John 6:29]

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And yet the ability to believe comes from God.[John 6:29]

So - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” means "the work of God is to give you the ability to believe"? "Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval. Then they asked him, What must we do to do the works God requires? Jesus answered, "The work of God (the work that God requires - work for food that endures to eternal life) is this: to believe in the one he has sent.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (eternal life) Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved . . . .

 

[Silverwings]

In my case, I believe that the Lord brought me to the end of myself so that when he drew me by His spirit, I could and would respond.

 

[Blik]

I have been recently talking with a friend about whether or not one decides to be saved. His position is that we are elected to salvation and that, as such, we believe when we hear the gospel. He claims that it must be that way otherwise it becomes something we do in order to be saved.

I am inclined toward the election possibility but I am not dogmatic about it. It might be that even if we are elected it may be up to us as to when we believe.

I am also aware that I might be dead wrong about election and that it is up to everyone who hears the gospel to choose to receive eternal life or not.

I invite your (respectful) thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

The spiritual world that God lives in operates differently than our world of the body. For instance, in God's world there is no time, everything simply is for God is eternal. We choose our way minute by minute, we live differently. Space and measurements are different for God, for God does not have a physical body. For us, we can choose what we think and do, but God knows our choices in a way we can not understand for we do not experience things is the way God does.

 

[Blik]

Regardless of all afflictions, trials, tribulations, vicissitudes, and martyrdoms, trust in the grace of God through Christ and His finished work of redemption must remain and prevail in every believer's life. If it was genuine faith to begin with. As Scripture says we are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD.

God has given us His grace, it is over and done with. It was His to give and was in His hands.

Now we have other things to think about for we are made aware of tremendous power for us to use. Being saved was the first step, it is over, now we have an entire walk with God. We have to learn how to accept and use this power we have been given. That!!! is where the essence of life is at.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don’t believe, nor do I preach, double predestination.

So you believe a non believer can chose to be saved, His destiny is not pre-determined? when did you change?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok but we have to define what does it mean to endure to the end and what are we enduring. Likewise eternal security what does that mean also.

enduring to the end is not about spiritual salvation, It is about the end of tribulation, and speaks of having ones physical life saved.

it has nothign to do with eternal security or lack of. Because it is not talking about eternal salvation.

 

[Nehemiah6]

God has given us His grace, it is over and done with. It was His to give and was in His hands.

It is NOT "over and done with". If that were true we would not have this exhortation:

King James Bible (2 Pet 2:18)
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[carl11]

enduring to the end is not about spiritual salvation, It is about the end of tribulation, and speaks of having ones physical life saved.

it has nothign to do with eternal security or lack of. Because it is not talking about eternal salvation.

saved from what tribulation ?? And I suppose you do not believe that Mt. 24:24 is talking about our day say verses the day back then ??