Do we decide to be saved?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
So, by this post, the gospel is not enough to save ppl. No need to send missionaries out to hazard their lives in places they could be eaten as supper, die from diseases, no need to fund missionaries, as God will get to them somehow.

As I have believed for a while, if time lasts long enough, the preaching of the gospel will go the way of the dodo.
By this response, it is obvious you did not read or understand a word I said.

How do people go into the world, By the Holy Spirit. He can convict our conscious, But he also gives the word by Human voice.


my second point, by the Holy Spirit. Teaching This is done by men being led by the HS

My third point, God will do ANYTHING if he knows. WHich means send people (like missionaries) to those who are open to the word.


Maybe you misunderstood and did not understand what I was saying?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
There is only one way to God and that way is through the word of His Christ. Faith comes from that word, and not via creation.

I never said otherwise. If your not going to try to understand what I said, then please stop responding.

My response was to how God draws people to himself. so they will be open to the word when it is given. Not how people get saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If I read 'force' one more time in regards to God saving the lost, I am going to scream.

Brother, this is the lost person...



He is dead as a corpse inwardly, being spiritually dead. God must first bring this dead spirit to life before the lost person can respond. In their lost state, their spirit is dead, but the body is alive. That is why 1 Cor. 2:14 states The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The lost man, in this dead state, can not understand the word of God. That is why the preaching of the gospel is necessary. Faith comes from hearing the word of God.
Then stop preaching double predestination.

If you keep preaching it, I will keep saying people are forced (have no choice) to accept or reject christ. Their decision has been decided for them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
They heard what? Romans 1 shows the lost in their ruined state. It is not a treaty to be saved, but to show ppl the lost are doomed outside of the Christ.

No Romans 1 shows WHY people rejected God and did not come to him, Because the wanted nothing to do with God, they wanted to make their own Gods, so GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO THEIR DESIRES.

it also says they HAVE NO EXCUSE.

God is said to be a righteous judge, if God does not allow a person the opportunity to be saved, and give THEM the right to reject him, God gave them an excue, because he has proven to be an unrighteous judge,

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God. It does not come my these mystical means. This is as anti-missionary as they come.
John 6 spoke of a bunch of people (I believe in the thousands) Who heard. yet not all of them believed. Many chose to reject.

If faith comes by hearing, One must hear, and also trust, One can not hear and twist, or reject what God said.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
As Romans 1:20, they will be w/o an excuse when they stand before Him condemned. Even those who never heard the gospel will stand before Him condemned, w/o an excuse.

yes because they KNEW God, KNEW he was real, AND KNEW they were rightly punished for their sin, because they KNOW they were sinners.

They did not WANT a savior. they wanted their own God. as all people who have not come to christ want.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Repentance matters! Here's what repentance is according to the Greek:

[FONT=&quot]3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").[/FONT]
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
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Where can you show biblical proof that ppl have visions today? I know ppl will readily jump to Acts 2:17. But in the book of Acts, ppl are raised from the dead, Peter raised Dorcas and Paul raised Eutychus. Ppl laid in the street hoping Peter's shadow would fall upon them as he passed by. I guess they were healed by his shadow, but not for sure if they were. Ppl were healed by Paul's handkerchiefs and aprons he touched. Cornelius had a vision. A crippled man was healed and he ran and leaped for joy.

So, if ppl are going to use Acts 2:17 as 'proof' that visions are for today, then the other miracles during this Apolstolic age are still viable.

I just don't see crippled ppl being touched and they raise and walk. I don't see the dead coming to life by the touch of another person. Ppl aren't cured by clothing that has been prayed over. Churches around here grossly abuse this practice.

I am a cessatioinst, and these gifts were for the purpose of establishing the church, and when the last Apostle died, these gifts ceased, imo.
Here is one proof text for you that many like to use. Heb. 13:8
 
Feb 21, 2012
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If I read 'force' one more time in regards to God saving the lost, I am going to scream.

Brother, this is the lost person...



He is dead as a corpse inwardly, being spiritually dead. God must first bring this dead spirit to life before the lost person can respond. In their lost state, their spirit is dead, but the body is alive. That is why 1 Cor. 2:14 states The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The lost man, in this dead state, can not understand the word of God. That is why the preaching of the gospel is necessary. Faith comes from hearing the word of God.
A dead person with a tag on his foot is dead! Yes, faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. . . . the dead can't HEAR God's word, the gospel of our salvation, in order to BELIEVE and therefore can't BELIEVE in anything!
The dead KNOW nothing
. One is NOT born again UNTIL they believe in Jesus Christ . . . THEN they are born again of Spirit . . . A lost man KNOWS things - has an intellect, can reason, can hear what is being preached and therefore can make a choice to TURN FROM HIS EVIL WAYS (repent as God commands) or remain in darkness. That word "nekros" can be used as a noun which would be the dead person with a tag on his foot and it can also used as an adjective, describing a person spiritually dead, one without being born again of the Spirit. There is a BIG difference in being DEAD with a tag on your toe - your time to be saved is GONE . . . being DEAD spiritually you still have the opportunity to hear and believe.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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There is no such thing as abusing grace. If we sin, we're in the flesh, not in grace.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Then stop preaching double predestination.

If you keep preaching it, I will keep saying people are forced (have no choice) to accept or reject christ. Their decision has been decided for them.
I don’t believe, nor do I preach, double predestination.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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A dead person with a tag on his foot is dead! Yes, faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. . . . the dead can't HEAR God's word, the gospel of our salvation, in order to BELIEVE and therefore can't BELIEVE in anything!
The dead KNOW nothing
. One is NOT born again UNTIL they believe in Jesus Christ . . . THEN they are born again of Spirit . . . A lost man KNOWS things - has an intellect, can reason, can hear what is being preached and therefore can make a choice to TURN FROM HIS EVIL WAYS (repent as God commands) or remain in darkness. That word "nekros" can be used as a noun which would be the dead person with a tag on his foot and it can also used as an adjective, describing a person spiritually dead, one without being born again of the Spirit. There is a BIG difference in being DEAD with a tag on your toe - your time to be saved is GONE . . . being DEAD spiritually you still have the opportunity to hear and believe.
Belief is an evidence of salvation, not the cause.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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When it comes to security, Arminianism and Calvinism are very equal.
Arminianism says you are eternally secure as long as you don't backslide.
Calvinism says if you backslide, you were never saved in the first place.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Belief is an evidence of salvation, not the cause.
The cause of salvation is God's grace and mercy to undeserving sinners through Christ. But since the Bible says BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31), belief must come BEFORE salvation, and remain.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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The cause of salvation is God's grace and mercy to undeserving sinners through Christ. But since the Bible says BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31), belief must come BEFORE salvation, and remain.
Remain? What do you mean?
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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How many sins were yet future when Christ died on the cross?

All but not effectual until you receive Him personally as your savior:


John 1:12-13, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

If you have NOT received Him:

John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

In that case NONE!

The way has been made so you don't have to die in your sins:

Acts 13:37-39, “But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Galatians 3:13-14, “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Romans 3:19-28, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

1 John 1:7, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Soooooo....you preach double predestination and that repentance and faith aren't necessary for salvation eh? You're a real stinker I tell ya! :D :p
Biblical repentance:

metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Short Definition: repentance, a change of mind
Definition: repentance, a change of mind, change in the inner man.

 
Dec 28, 2016
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When it comes to security, Arminianism and Calvinism are very equal.
Nope, incorrect. Not even close in that regard.

Arminianism says you are eternally secure as long as you don't backslide.
Um. That's not eternally secure.

Calvinism says if you backslide, you were never saved in the first place.
Scripture teaches the preservation (perseverance) of the saints so what "Calvinism" teaches is biblical. Also, not sure what you mean by "backslide."
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Nope, incorrect. Not even close in that regard.



Um. That's not eternally secure.



Scripture teaches the preservation (perseverance) of the saints so what "Calvinism" teaches is biblical. Also, not sure what you mean by "backslide."
Well, Calvinism's P point says if you're truly saved you will always endure to the end.