Do We Have To Keep The Law?

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I hope I am not misunderstanding but if i am I apologize, are you saying we shouldn't obey law at all?
B...,

Not by a long shot. We must ..."maintain"...until the end (death).
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
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I showed you where it plainly says Paul is talking to saved Galatians and that they will not gain the inheritance by becoming slaves to the law again.
Ridiculous.

Paul addresses the entire congregation at Galatia where we know that legalizing Judaizers were at work. Finally, he (Paul) effectively divides the church at Galatia into two sections:


1. UNBELIEVING JUDAIZERS: "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Verse 4).


2. TRUE CHRISTIANS: "For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Verse 5).


The church in Galatia had Christians, but it also had Judaizers who were trying to tell the Christians that they needed to keep the law of Moses. Paul then addressed the church as a whole. Undoubtedly, there were true Christians and false Christians within that congregation, and Paul is making the case against the Judaizers who are seeking to bring Christians back under the law. In this they were "severed from Christ" and "fallen from grace," in a socially religious sense, not in an ontological sense. They were truly not regenerate - otherwise they would not be seeking to be made right with God by keeping the Law.


Nothing in Scripture shows that truly called and chosen believers who become part of the Body of Christ can later be lost.

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29).

- Courtesy of Robin A. Brace and Matt Slick.



 
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Sep 4, 2012
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Ridiculous.

Paul addresses the entire congregation at Galatia where we know that legalizing Judaizers were at work. Finally, he (Paul) effectively divides the church at Galatia into two sections:

1. UNBELIEVING JUDAIZERS: "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Verse 4).

2. TRUE CHRISTIANS: "For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Verse 5).

The church in Galatia had Christians, but it also had Judaizers who were trying to tell the Christians that they needed to keep the law of Moses. Paul then addressed the church as a whole. Undoubtedly, there were true Christians and false Christians within that congregation, and Paul is making the case against the Judaizers who are seeking to bring Christians back under the law. In this they were "severed from Christ" and "fallen from grace," in a socially religious sense, not in an ontological sense. They were truly not regenerate - otherwise they would not be seeking to be made right with God by keeping the Law.
[/INDENT]
Actually they were Christian pharisees from Jerusalem.

​And some men came down from Judea [and] began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom [prescribed] by Moses, you cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

But some of those who had believed from the party of the Pharisees stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command [them] to observe the law of Moses!” Acts 15:5
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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I as an electronics and software engineer used the principle of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). I use it also in studying the Bible. I try to simplify the theology of what it says. I use 2 quotes about keeping the law. One from Jesus and the other from Paul.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

 
Dec 9, 2011
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Paul explains it over and over but those who are led away with the error of the wicked can't grasp it.

Hebrews 7:12-16
[FONT=&][SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
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[FONT=&][SUP]13 [/SUP]For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
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[FONT=&][SUP]14 [/SUP]For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
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[FONT=&][SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
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[FONT=&][SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The priesthood was changed so those who follow that High Priest have a different law.

Those who follow this High Priest no longer follow the law of a carnal commandment but rather the law that leads to an endless life.

Paul keeps explaining it in epistle after epistle.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
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[FONT=&][SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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[FONT=&][SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
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[FONT=&][SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
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[FONT=&][SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Do you see how these epistles are talking about the same thing?

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (Not of the carnal commandment), but of the spirit (after the power of an endless life): for the letter killeth (the Carnal Commandment), but the spirit giveth life (The Power of an Endless Life).

Here is some more;

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law (the letter, a carnal commandment), but under grace (the spirit, the power of an endless life).

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden (from your work at the law, the letter, a carnal commandment), and I will give you rest (grace, the spirit, the power of an endless life).

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free (Grace, the Spirit, the Power of an endless Life), and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage (the law, the letter, a carnal commandment).

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit (Grace, the power of an endless life, Rest), are ye now made perfect by the flesh (the law, the letter, a carnal commandment) ?




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Amen.
Those who worship GOD must worship HIM In Spirit and In Truth.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
=Grandpa;3573075]
The priesthood is not really the most important subject of Hebrews 7.


Actually is the Central subject of Hebrews 7. You are free to try and show differently using scripture, but you can't because the Central subject on Heb. 7-10 is explaining the Change in an ancient Priesthood that was old and ready to vanish.

If you want to make the Claim that "Love the Lord" is part of the "old Covenant" discussed in Heb. 7 &8 so as to preserve your religious traditions, you are free to do so. But it isn't true and no amount or wrangling will make it true.

I know that you think it is. But that's what happens with people who don't understand scripture. They place the emphasis on the wrong subject.
You should apply this to your religion. If you did, you wouldn't be looking at me.

We have a new High Priest, Therefore, we have a new law.
Yes, Jesus is not a Levite, yet He is our High Priest.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Yes, I am no longer "dead in my sins" according to His Commandment, but through His Spirit I am alive. Do I continue to transgress God's Commandments because I have been freed from the death my rebellion and disrespect towards God caused me?
God forbid!!! It's in your Bible, I am not the one ignoring this truth, you are.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


If I am dead because I refused to obey God, how is that being "entangled" in His Laws. It's not. Death and deception is the Yoke of Bondage.

It is death and deception that is the Yoke of Bondage. Paul is saying, "Don't go back to transgressing God's Commandments because if you do, you will "AGAIN" be tangled in the Yoke of Bondage.

Your preaching that God's Instructions are the Problem with the world today is just false. God's instructions on how to Love God and Love each other is not a Yoke of Bondage as you preach. Death and deception that follows rejection of God's instruction is the Bondage. No matter how you twist scripture, no matter how much Scripture you reject and ignore, you can't "MAKE" God's instructions the problem. You can be convinced it is like Eve, but it is a lie.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


How does sin have dominion over a man? It kills him, Yes? But if Jesus takes our sins away, does it have dominion over us? No, because we are freed from the Law of sin, "The wages of sin is death". We are no longer under the Law, (dead in our sins) but we are alive (Under the undeserved pardon by the Messiah.

It doesn't seem to matter how many different ways Paul explains this, legalists and judaizers always manage to twist it into the opposite of what he is really saying.
And yet it is you who twist Paul's words to promote your ancient religious traditions.

I guess the only chance for people who are being led away with the error of the wicked is to Come to Christ and grow in His Grace and the Knowledge of His Salvation. But why would you if you didn't know you were being led away with the error of the wicked?
If you would just apply your own words to yourself, before trying to apply them to others, you would see things differently.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man (working at the 10 Commandments) but the end thereof is death.
Yes, you are following a long line of religious people who ridiculed, hated, insulted, and discouraged people who are trying to follow God's instructions instead of some religious franchise. From Abel, who was killed because "his works were righteous" and his "Christian" bother's were not, to Stephen who was hated and killed because He told the mainstream preachers of his time the truth.

You go ahead and continue to discourage and ridicule folks who listening to Jesus and doing what He instructs. Jesus said you would.


2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


Who was Moses? Was he not a Levite Priest?

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
I have asked you this before and you won't answer. But for others who may be reading, What Law was given by Moses specifically designed for the removal and remission of sins? Was it "Love God with all your heart"? Was it "Love your neighbor"? Or was it a Priesthood given specifically to the Levites, who were to perform specific, sacrificial "Works" for the atonement of sins.

The truth is the latter, the Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians by continuing their version of this "priesthood" with it's "Works" designed to justify us.


But we know the blood of goats can not take away sins. So if I am "Relying" on these "Works of the Law" or the blood of goats, for justification, I am bound to keep the "Whole Law" because if I break one, I am doomed because the Levite Priest's "works" of sacrificing these animals does not remove sins.

But I have already sinned. It's too late for me. Therefore, if I am relying on these Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" which CAN NOT take away sins I am cursed, still dead in my sins and will continue to be dead in my sins because I am relying on the "works of the Law" for removal of sins and not the Grace, through faith in the Christ.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
I as an electronics and software engineer used the principle of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). I use it also in studying the Bible. I try to simplify the theology of what it says. I use 2 quotes about keeping the law. One from Jesus and the other from Paul.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Most times, all that's required to solve an issue is a simple reboot.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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Most times, all that's required to solve an issue is a simple reboot.
I fixed many problems with the old DEC PDP 11 computers by pulling the connector straps between the baseplate sections and plugging them back in. Often the customer had to pay $160 an hour, substance and travel expenses including travel time for me to do that. They would panic at the thought of doing it themselves. My wages at the time was $50 an hour in the 70s.
 
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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Actually they were Christian pharisees from Jerusalem.
​And some men came down from Judea [and] began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom [prescribed] by Moses, you cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

But some of those who had believed from the party of the Pharisees stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to command [them] to observe the law of Moses!” Acts 15:5

Some were saved and needed correction - which Paul gave them. The same way he corrected Peter when he needed it. That has nothing to do with them losing salvation as Ralph suggests.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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Some were saved and needed correction - which Paul gave them. The same way he corrected Peter when he needed it. That has nothing to do with them losing salvation as Ralph suggests.
There are denominations that teach that you can lose your salvation. There are several views. Here are 2 diametrically opposed viewpoints. Armenians believe you can lose your salvation. Point 5. I am Calvinist in my theology. I will answer any questions you ask about these very short doctrinal statements.

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints


Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
=Grandpa;3573075]

Actually is the Central subject of Hebrews 7. You are free to try and show differently using scripture, but you can't because the Central subject on Heb. 7-10 is explaining the Change in an ancient Priesthood that was old and ready to vanish.

If you want to make the Claim that "Love the Lord" is part of the "old Covenant" discussed in Heb. 7 &8 so as to preserve your religious traditions, you are free to do so. But it isn't true and no amount or wrangling will make it true.



You should apply this to your religion. If you did, you wouldn't be looking at me.



Yes, Jesus is not a Levite, yet He is our High Priest.



Yes, I am no longer "dead in my sins" according to His Commandment, but through His Spirit I am alive. Do I continue to transgress God's Commandments because I have been freed from the death my rebellion and disrespect towards God caused me? [/FONT][/COLOR]God forbid!!! It's in your Bible, I am not the one ignoring this truth, you are.



If I am dead because I refused to obey God, how is that being "entangled" in His Laws. It's not. Death and deception is the Yoke of Bondage.

It is death and deception that is the Yoke of Bondage. Paul is saying, "Don't go back to transgressing God's Commandments because if you do, you will "AGAIN" be tangled in the Yoke of Bondage.

Your preaching that God's Instructions are the Problem with the world today is just false. God's instructions on how to Love God and Love each other is not a Yoke of Bondage as you preach. Death and deception that follows rejection of God's instruction is the Bondage. No matter how you twist scripture, no matter how much Scripture you reject and ignore, you can't "MAKE" God's instructions the problem. You can be convinced it is like Eve, but it is a lie.



How does sin have dominion over a man? It kills him, Yes? But if Jesus takes our sins away, does it have dominion over us? No, because we are freed from the Law of sin, "The wages of sin is death". We are no longer under the Law, (dead in our sins) but we are alive (Under the undeserved pardon by the Messiah.



And yet it is you who twist Paul's words to promote your ancient religious traditions.



If you would just apply your own words to yourself, before trying to apply them to others, you would see things differently.



Yes, you are following a long line of religious people who ridiculed, hated, insulted, and discouraged people who are trying to follow God's instructions instead of some religious franchise. From Abel, who was killed because "his works were righteous" and his "Christian" bother's were not, to Stephen who was hated and killed because He told the mainstream preachers of his time the truth.

You go ahead and continue to discourage and ridicule folks who listening to Jesus and doing what He instructs. Jesus said you would.



Who was Moses? Was he not a Levite Priest?



I have asked you this before and you won't answer. But for others who may be reading, What Law was given by Moses specifically designed for the removal and remission of sins? Was it "Love God with all your heart"? Was it "Love your neighbor"? Or was it a Priesthood given specifically to the Levites, who were to perform specific, sacrificial "Works" for the atonement of sins.

The truth is the latter, the Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians by continuing their version of this "priesthood" with it's "Works" designed to justify us.


But we know the blood of goats can not take away sins. So if I am "Relying" on these "Works of the Law" or the blood of goats, for justification, I am bound to keep the "Whole Law" because if I break one, I am doomed because the Levite Priest's "works" of sacrificing these animals does not remove sins.

But I have already sinned. It's too late for me. Therefore, if I am relying on these Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" which CAN NOT take away sins I am cursed, still dead in my sins and will continue to be dead in my sins because I am relying on the "works of the Law" for removal of sins and not the Grace, through faith in the Christ.
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[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
You keep ignoring what Jesus said about the law being in force until the heavens and earth disappear!!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. All has not been accomplished!!


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
There are denominations that teach that you can lose your salvation. There are several views. Here are 2 diametrically opposed viewpoints. Armenians believe you can lose your salvation. Point 5. I am Calvinist in my theology. I will answer any questions you ask about these very short doctrinal statements.

Reformed/Calvinist
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints


Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
It would be interesting to have a discussion on the gnostic elements in TULIP.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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400
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It would be interesting to have a discussion on the gnostic elements in TULIP.
What gnostic elements? Gnosticism almost took over the early church. The Apostles Creed was created and used to fight this heresy. Where does tulip violate the Apostles Creed doctrinal statement.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
What gnostic elements? Gnosticism almost took over the early church. The Apostles Creed was created and used to fight this heresy. Where does tulip violate the Apostles Creed doctrinal statement.
Yes, it was a very dangerous heresy that IMO did finally succeed in infiltrating the church under Augustine. He brought a lot of gnostic baggage with him into the church.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I agree on this in the sense of his view of God and how conducts himself in human affairs.

Yes, it was a very dangerous heresy that IMO did finally succeed in infiltrating the church under Augustine. He brought a lot of gnostic baggage with him into the church.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes and Jesus did it, He was referring to Himself and the reason he came and died and was resurrected.


You keep ignoring what Jesus said about the law being in force until the heavens and earth disappear!!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. All has not been accomplished!!


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

kevinbible4u

Junior Member
Apr 15, 2016
1
0
0
Every verse you quoted in your overview to sustain the belief that we do not have to keep the law has an abundance of verses to balance what the bible teaches. Cause what you quote is one side of the medal. I will try to keep my reply as short as possible. The bible teaches 2 things on keeping the law. One side is all that you quoted, and the other side, is the aspect of the value of the law and it's importance to how living a life in God our lives as christians are to be in harmony with the law. So, your not being clear in enough, in that you are giving one sided view of the totality on the topic. In an particular sense WE ARE NOT TO KEEP THE LAW for the purpose of Salvation but for the simple fact that we aren't suppose to live lawless. Through the spirit we live in harmony with the law.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
You keep ignoring what Jesus said about the law being in force until the heavens and earth disappear!!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. All has not been accomplished!!


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Isn't the promise the Word which became Flesh gave us in Jeremiah 31:31 also a "jot and title" of the Law?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Two groups are mentioned. There are non believers trying to be justified by the flesh (Galatians 5:4) ~ and there are believers trying to be made perfect by the flesh (Galatians 3:3).

Galatians 3:3: "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"
They are one and the same group.

That is what you do when you try to be justified by the law: You attempt to keep it perfectly, thus earning God's salvation.

The bottom line is, Paul warned these saved Galatians that if they go back to the slavery of law (trying to be justified by works of the law) they would no longer be heirs in line for the inheritance. Only sons through 'Sarah', the New Covenant, are heirs. So keep trusting in Jesus. Don't go back to trusting in works of the law. You'll lose the inheritance if you do that.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Yes, it was a very dangerous heresy that IMO did finally succeed in infiltrating the church under Augustine. He brought a lot of gnostic baggage with him into the church.
The problem is we only know what Gnosticism was is from those fighting against it. One heretical view is God created the universe and then an ain (not sure about the spelling). That ain the created an ain etc. Until one ain created Jesus. Thus Jesus is way below God. Explain how Augustine brought this concept into the church.