Do We Have To Keep The Law?

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J

joefizz

Guest
#161
#161
7seasrekeyed said:
so basically Jesus was in disagreement with His Father?

please see my post 143

what Jesus commanded is the fullfillment of what we commonly refer to as the 10 commandments

very seriously, God has not changed and Jesus said the law is not going to pass away until everything passes away

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5

the fullfillment of the law was required by God and that fullfillment meant completeness...ie. perfect obedience

and yet Jesus says that VERY SAME LAW is fulfilled by US through the love of God in our hearts (cause God knows we basically do not have this love without the Holy Spirit)

what Jesus commanded is simply fulfilled by God's love...again see my post 143...I'm not trying to teach here; I am trying to logically follow the scripture. if it does not make sense, then we are missing something

all of this debating about righteousness, the law, the commandments; it is ALL smoke and mirrors

Jesus is not saying something difficult what He says AGREES with OT law (and obviously I am not discussing all the ordinances so please don't go there.) I am pointing to what we call the 10 commandments and that was what Jesus was pointing to when He spoke of love

obedience is not what some like to call 'works'

obedience is a part of the gospel. there would be no gospel if Jesus had not been obedient and if we think that as believers we do not need to follow that same obedience, then stop talking about God's will for your life because you are rejecting it

see Moses with the commandments written by the finger of God, standing on a smoking mountain with his face changed and shining from being in the presence of God and then look at Jesus pointing BACK to this very scene and saying you CAN'T fullfill these laws. I have fulfilled them FOR you

and the key to accepting this righteousness and living in it, is acknowledging the commandments of Christ as the fulfillment of the stone carved commandments through the Holy Spirit indwelling us and as we grow in our relationship, multiplying the love of God in us so that the commandments are not a burden but the love LIVED OUT they were always meant to be

yet people keep on discussing broken commandments and if you break one you have broken all

NOBODY told you to keep the commandments as a 'picture' of holiiness as the Israelites had to live it out and even then, scripture tells us the blood of those animals sacrificed could never pardon sin

why do you keep arguing over the gnats when the camel is chewing its cud behind you?

it is SO OBVIOUS yet for some reason, it seems not many here are understanding it
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Yep basically to those have accepted Jesus there are but two commandments to abide by where as those who have not accepted him the law is what they must live by if of course anyone excludes scriptures like that those who do accept Jesus have no condemnation where as those who have not accepted him are condemned still.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#162
Sep 4, 2012
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#162
This is what the law really says

10 commandments
  1. Love GOD
  2. Love GOD
  3. Love GOD
  4. Love GOD
  5. Love your neighbor as yourself
  6. Love your neighbor as yourself
  7. Love your neighbor as yourself
  8. Love your neighbor as yourself
  9. Love your neighbor as yourself
  10. Love your neighbor as yourself


The rest of the law
  • Love GOD
  • Love your neighbor as yourself
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#163
Jun 24, 2011
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#163
Galatians 2:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What do these passages mean??

Are they against God??

​
 
Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
#165
May 6, 2017
1,099
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#165
that is true, because we do not live as sinners. like i said earlier that those laws were written because they commited all kinds of sin. performing immoral acts. so there had to be a law against such things and so they were written.
 
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Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
#166
May 6, 2017
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#166
If you are a murderer, a liar ,a thief, a covetous person, backbitter, then these laws are for you, and you set yourself up to be punished. these laws are curses.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#167
#167
Budman said:
What does the New Testament say about it?

If we are under the Law, we are not led by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:18)

Christ is the end of the Law (Romans 10:4)

No one is justified by the works of the Law (Galatians 2:16)

It has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15)

The Law is not for the Righteous. (1 Timothy 1:8, Galatians 2:21, Romans 3:20)

We can't keep it (James 2:10)

Not even the Jews could (Galatians 6:13)

The Law and faith do not mix (Romans 3:27-28)

If we rely on observing the Law we place ourselves under a curse (Galatians 3:10-11)

The Law is a curse that Jesus redeemed us from (Galatians 3:13)

If we continue in the Law we are fools (Galatians 3:2-3)

We are to live by faith, which the Law is not based on (Galatians 3:11-12)

The Law is lifeless (Galatians 3:21)

The Law only makes us prisoners (Galatians 3:23-25)

We become alienated from Christ (Galatians 5:4)

The Law is weak and makes nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:18-19)

It can never take away sins (Hebrews 10:4)

Paul said he himself was not under the Law (1 Corinthians 9:20)

We have been released from the Law (Romans 7:6)

The Law has been canceled and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14)

We are dead to the Law (Romans 7:4)

It is obsolete, outdated, and will disappear (Hebrews 8:13)

We have been justified apart from the Law (Romans 3:21-22, 27-28)

We are under grace, not the Law (Romans 6:14)


Clear enough? :)
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Clear enough no I don't think so, the Ten Commandments are related to one another the outline a vision for community in concrete practical terms. They don't address every situation in detail they are, after all, just ten brief statements, but they point the way to living together in healthy community.


are you released not held accountable for cheating on a spouse, NO.

are you released to murder freely, NO

can you have more than one God, NO

can you bare false witness, NO

Can you dishonor your parents, NO

clear enough to me.
 
Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
#168
May 6, 2017
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#168
In order to live under the law of Moses, you have to make the law work for you, thereby giving it power over you. OK, today I will murder,, broke that one,. tomorrow i will bare false witness, broke that one too. Now the law is working for me because i did what it told me not to do.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#169
#169
Gabriel2020 said:
In order to live under the law of Moses, you have to make the law work for you, thereby giving it power over you. OK, today I will murder,, broke that one,. tomorrow i will bare false witness, broke that one too. Now the law is working for me because i did what it told me not to do.
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Indeed even people who don't do these things are still required to practiced the law by never doing them.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#170
#170
There's two ways to approach the law, either obey the law or disobey the law. There's nothing of it that has been abolished.

Jesus simplied the whole commandments into two short statements, Love God with all your heart and loves others as yourself.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#171
Oct 7, 2012
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#171
LPT said:
There's two ways to approach the law, either obey the law or disobey the law. There's nothing of it that has been abolished.

Jesus simplied the whole commandments into two short statements, Love God with all your heart and loves others as yourself.
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You present that as if its the simplest command in the world, as opposed to the most damning.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#172
#172
BenFTW said:
You present that as if its the simplest command in the world, as opposed to the most damning.
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Please explain how it's the most damning?

a lot of times the most simplest teachings can be the hardest to do, like for example, patience, understanding, forgiveness, is hard for most Christians to do.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#173
Oct 7, 2012
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#173
LPT said:
Please explain how it's the most damning?
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Who is perfect? If we fail in one part of the Law, we have failed all of it. It is a unit. God's standard is perfection, this is why Jesus said it is better to enter Heaven an amputee (cut off your arm, gouge out your eye) than Hell as a whole man. All have fallen short of God's glory.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#174
#174
BenFTW said:
Who is perfect? If we fail in one part of the Law, we have failed all of it. It is a unit. God's standard is perfection, this is why Jesus said it is better to enter Heaven an amputee (cut off your arm, gouge out your eye) than Hell as a whole man. All have fallen short of God's glory.
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Thats is exactly why Jesus did what he did, because us humans are fallible and are not perfect, but you can't go around killing people, cheating on a spouse and so on and have a mind set of all I have to do is ask forgiveness and everything is A ok. I am sorry to say it doesn't work like that at all.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#175
Mar 30, 2016
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#175
BenFTW said:
Who is perfect? If we fail in one part of the Law, we have failed all of it. It is a unit. God's standard is perfection, this is why Jesus said it is better to enter Heaven an amputee (cut off your arm, gouge out your eye) than Hell as a whole man. All have fallen short of God's glory.
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Who said anyone had to be perfect??? But Jesus never said to throw out the commandments they didn't matter anymore....We have forgiveness under his blood when we fall short, but that doesn't mean you can just disregard the commandments of God. That means to me if you slip then you repent.

I don't even get what is so hard about the ten commandments anyhow. Just seems like common courtesy to me.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#176
Oct 7, 2012
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#176
Lol all of you are jumping the gun here on me. I simply made an observation that what LPT said made it seem as if it was a simple commandment as opposed to a damning one. It is damning because its impossible. This by no means relinquishes our desire for holiness and righteousness, and the pursuit thereof.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#177
Sep 4, 2012
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#177
BenFTW said:
Lol all of you are jumping the gun here on me. I simply made an observation that what LPT said made it seem as if it was a simple commandment as opposed to a damning one. It is damning because its impossible. This by no means relinquishes our desire for holiness and righteousness, and the pursuit thereof.
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It's not impossible with the holy spirit.

I am able [to do] all [things] by the one who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13​
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#178
Oct 7, 2012
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#178
LPT said:
Thats is exactly why Jesus did what he did, because us humans are fallible and are not perfect, but you can't go around killing people, cheating on a spouse and so on and have a mind set of all I have to do is ask forgiveness and everything is A ok. I am sorry to say it doesn't work like that at all.
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I think what is often missed in this discussion is that both sides desire righteousness and holiness. This need to be restated.

BOTH SIDES DESIRE RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOLINESS.

People only disagree on the means of such sanctification, how we go about actually being righteous in conduct.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#179
#179
BenFTW said:
Lol all of you are jumping the gun here on me. I simply made an observation that what LPT said made it seem as if it was a simple commandment as opposed to a damning one. It is damning because its impossible. This by no means relinquishes our desire for holiness and righteousness, and the pursuit thereof.
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do you think it is impossible to Love God with all your heart and to Love others as yourself that is what Jesus said the whole law come down too, now the latter could be quite the challenge if a person doesn't Love their self.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#180
#180
BenFTW said:
I think what is often missed in this discussion is that both sides desire righteousness and holiness. This need to be restated.

BOTH SIDES DESIRE RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOLINESS.

People only disagree on the means of such sanctification, how we go about actually being righteous in conduct.
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well you may have a point of people having the desire thing, but I've never desire those things myself that's not who I am.
 
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