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It's speaking about in the beginning that there were water suspended in the middle of nothingness, and that it was dark in the center of this water. And then appeared a flash of light in the center of this water and then it withdrew and then it was dark in the center like a pulsating effect, by coming and going. And each pulse of light was considered to be a day. But where the water had came from? it didn't said, but through the scriptures it says that we were born from water like water in a fetus.
K
Yes, I believe in the gap for many reasons. Most of all everything that God created, He said was good. But, the word say's that the Earth BECAME void and full of darkness. God didn't make it that way, it became that way. There are a couple of theories of why it became so. There is not a lot of biblical light on the subject but there are some hints.
The book of nature or creation (or real science) and the biblical account should be in harmony. Therefore, I think the earth is older then the supposed 6-10 thousand years.
Genesis 1:1-3
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (does this include all the heavenly bodies? I think it does, including our sun and earth) [SUP]2 [/SUP]The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. (Notice God said let there be light, it doesn't say that God created light. I believe light was created in Verse 1...Why does this seem so far stretched to you Tintin?)
What I find amazing, is that many Young Earth Creationists will accept various scientific dating methods when it comes to dating biblical manuscripts but when it comes to dating bones and etc. it's never accepted. God said in Romans 1 that His attributes are clearly seen by His creation. So can we observe creation, especially the death of a star a supernova (SN 1987a). Now we know that a life of a star is billions of years, so either God created an old star to deceive us or the universe is actually billions of years old. Now if first clause is correct that God created an old Star (which is possible) then how can Romans 1:20 be trusted?
Romans 1:20,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Sometimes it's so hard to leave the secondary issues and non-essential biblical concepts that have been force fed to us. We can still accept an old Earth creation theory and reject evolution, in which IMHO does not hurt the validity of the biblical creation account and it's creditability but even perhaps helps show the unbelieving skeptics that the bible does not contradict the book of nature, creation and real (done right) science.
Genesis 1:1-3
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (does this include all the heavenly bodies? I think it does, including our sun and earth) [SUP]2 [/SUP]The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. (Notice God said let there be light, it doesn't say that God created light. I believe light was created in Verse 1...Why does this seem so far stretched to you Tintin?)
What I find amazing, is that many Young Earth Creationists will accept various scientific dating methods when it comes to dating biblical manuscripts but when it comes to dating bones and etc. it's never accepted. God said in Romans 1 that His attributes are clearly seen by His creation. So can we observe creation, especially the death of a star a supernova (SN 1987a). Now we know that a life of a star is billions of years, so either God created an old star to deceive us or the universe is actually billions of years old. Now if first clause is correct that God created an old Star (which is possible) then how can Romans 1:20 be trusted?
Romans 1:20,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Sometimes it's so hard to leave the secondary issues and non-essential biblical concepts that have been force fed to us. We can still accept an old Earth creation theory and reject evolution, in which IMHO does not hurt the validity of the biblical creation account and it's creditability but even perhaps helps show the unbelieving skeptics that the bible does not contradict the book of nature, creation and real (done right) science.
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Yes there is a gap...
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
A better translation for verse 2 is the earth became chaos and confusion.
the word "was" in verse 2:
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
Here the word become is translated from the same Hebrew word...
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
the Hebrew words for without form and void are tohu and bohu...
without form:
H8414
תּהוּ
tôhû
to'-hoo
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
void:
H922
בּהוּ
bôhû
bo'-hoo
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
why would the angels shout for joy when the earth was chaos and confusion? And with that thought...
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
The earth was created perfectly 4.5 billion, million, quadrillion or whatever years ago, but became a mess at the rebellion of Satan. God recreated the earth approximately 6000 years ago beginning in verse 3 of Genesis 1.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
A better translation for verse 2 is the earth became chaos and confusion.
the word "was" in verse 2:
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
Here the word become is translated from the same Hebrew word...
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
the Hebrew words for without form and void are tohu and bohu...
without form:
H8414
תּהוּ
tôhû
to'-hoo
From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
void:
H922
בּהוּ
bôhû
bo'-hoo
From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
why would the angels shout for joy when the earth was chaos and confusion? And with that thought...
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
The earth was created perfectly 4.5 billion, million, quadrillion or whatever years ago, but became a mess at the rebellion of Satan. God recreated the earth approximately 6000 years ago beginning in verse 3 of Genesis 1.
R
actually you can't accept an old earth without contradicting the biblical creation account in some way...and furthermore you can't be an old earth creationist without contradicting the 'science' you were trying to reconcile with the bible in the first place...
old earth creationism is really just a new mythology that contradicts both the bible and 'science'
old earth creationism is really just a new mythology that contradicts both the bible and 'science'
R
this really isn't all that amazing...or irrational...when you think about it...
young earth creationists recognize the -huge- implications of a global flood...including the fact that it would completely disrupt the vast majority of scientific dating methods when applied to things from the flood and the pre flood era...whereas the much more mundane post flood era is much more conducive to these scientific dating methods...
really it is just knowing the limitations of the dating methods...
young earth creationists recognize the -huge- implications of a global flood...including the fact that it would completely disrupt the vast majority of scientific dating methods when applied to things from the flood and the pre flood era...whereas the much more mundane post flood era is much more conducive to these scientific dating methods...
really it is just knowing the limitations of the dating methods...
the gap theory (another gap...
) is also the seedbed for this (some variations have US/WE being pre-existent spirit beings dropped into human bodies in a kind of Dispensation/or Earth Age that is purgatory-like....we're kind of here to "fix" the fact the WE were the sons of God/angels who rebelled back there IN THE BEGINNING, and God kinda had to start over - or summink):
Pre-Adamite hypothesis or Preadamism is a hypothesis within theology that humans existed before Adam. This theoretical assumption is contrary to beliefs describing Adam as the first human, as stated in the Bible and the Qur'an. The theory of Preadamism is therefore distinct from the conventional religious belief that Adam was the first human. Preadamism has a long history, probably having its origins in early pagan responses to Abrahamic claims regarding the origins of the human race.
Advocates of this hypothesis are known as "pre-Adamites", as are the humans believed by them to have existed before Adam.
Non-racist pre-Adamite theories have also been held by a number of mainstream Christians such as the Congregational evangelist R.A. Torrey (1856–1928), who believed in the Gap Theory and that Pre-Adamites had survived into the present day. He thus advocated the belief in a local Flood.
More recently, these ideas have been promoted by Kathryn Kuhlman and Derek Prince among the Pentecostals, John Stott among the Anglicans, and Old Earth creationist Hugh Ross.[20]
Immanuel Velikovsky was a believer in Pre-Adamism. He wrote a book called In the Beginning. In the book, Velikovsky describes catastrophes which had occurred before those described in his first book, Worlds in Collision. In the first section of the book, his chapter titled The Pre-Adamite Age discusses Pre-Adamism. He wrote that the "talmudic-rabbinical tradition believed that before Adam was created, the world was more than once inhabited and more than once destroyed". Moreover, he wrote that according to the evidence from many different traditions, Adam and Eve were not a single human pair and there must have been many of them.[21]
Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
) is also the seedbed for this (some variations have US/WE being pre-existent spirit beings dropped into human bodies in a kind of Dispensation/or Earth Age that is purgatory-like....we're kind of here to "fix" the fact the WE were the sons of God/angels who rebelled back there IN THE BEGINNING, and God kinda had to start over - or summink):Pre-Adamite hypothesis or Preadamism is a hypothesis within theology that humans existed before Adam. This theoretical assumption is contrary to beliefs describing Adam as the first human, as stated in the Bible and the Qur'an. The theory of Preadamism is therefore distinct from the conventional religious belief that Adam was the first human. Preadamism has a long history, probably having its origins in early pagan responses to Abrahamic claims regarding the origins of the human race.
Advocates of this hypothesis are known as "pre-Adamites", as are the humans believed by them to have existed before Adam.
Non-racist pre-Adamite theories have also been held by a number of mainstream Christians such as the Congregational evangelist R.A. Torrey (1856–1928), who believed in the Gap Theory and that Pre-Adamites had survived into the present day. He thus advocated the belief in a local Flood.
More recently, these ideas have been promoted by Kathryn Kuhlman and Derek Prince among the Pentecostals, John Stott among the Anglicans, and Old Earth creationist Hugh Ross.[20]
Immanuel Velikovsky was a believer in Pre-Adamism. He wrote a book called In the Beginning. In the book, Velikovsky describes catastrophes which had occurred before those described in his first book, Worlds in Collision. In the first section of the book, his chapter titled The Pre-Adamite Age discusses Pre-Adamism. He wrote that the "talmudic-rabbinical tradition believed that before Adam was created, the world was more than once inhabited and more than once destroyed". Moreover, he wrote that according to the evidence from many different traditions, Adam and Eve were not a single human pair and there must have been many of them.[21]
Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
R
yes 'hayah' can mean 'became'...it can also mean 'was'...in fact it -usually- means 'was'
God began his creation by producing a mass of unformed raw material...and then formed and filled it...just like how a potter starts with clay before making a pot...or like how a blacksmith starts with a lump of metal before making a horseshoe...
the angels were rejoicing as God was laying the foundations of the earth...this was after the creation process had already begun...probably on day two or three...so they were rejoicing over the fact that God was making that unformed raw material into something wonderful...
the idea of previous 'earth ages' that ended in disaster and required God to 'start over' originates in ancient pagan mythology...see for example the five ages of man in greek mythology...the four ages of man in roman mythology...the four yugas of hindu mythology...and the five suns of aztec mythology...
God began his creation by producing a mass of unformed raw material...and then formed and filled it...just like how a potter starts with clay before making a pot...or like how a blacksmith starts with a lump of metal before making a horseshoe...
the angels were rejoicing as God was laying the foundations of the earth...this was after the creation process had already begun...probably on day two or three...so they were rejoicing over the fact that God was making that unformed raw material into something wonderful...
the idea of previous 'earth ages' that ended in disaster and required God to 'start over' originates in ancient pagan mythology...see for example the five ages of man in greek mythology...the four ages of man in roman mythology...the four yugas of hindu mythology...and the five suns of aztec mythology...
R
interestingly ross' 'pre-adamite' beliefs have actually been disproven by the standards he himself set... he viewed the neanderthal people as a type of 'pre-adamite' human...and recognizing the theological problems that would be caused if 'pre-adamites' and 'adamites' interbred...he said that proof of modern type humans interbreeding with neanderthal people would disprove his view...
more recently the neanderthal genome was sequenced and compared with the modern human genome...and it was determined that the modern human genome contains sequences that are distinctly neanderthal...meaning that modern type humans -did- interbreed with the neanderthal people...so -most of us- are part neanderthal with none of the supposed accompanying theological problems being apparent...
as far as i know ross has mostly avoided discussing this issue ever since these findings were published...
more recently the neanderthal genome was sequenced and compared with the modern human genome...and it was determined that the modern human genome contains sequences that are distinctly neanderthal...meaning that modern type humans -did- interbreed with the neanderthal people...so -most of us- are part neanderthal with none of the supposed accompanying theological problems being apparent...
as far as i know ross has mostly avoided discussing this issue ever since these findings were published...