Do you believe in the Gap Theory ?

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Aug 15, 2009
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#41
I wonder if the pressure of the flood could have messed up the dating process. For instance, scientists say it takes I believe thousands of years for a piece of carbon under pressure to form a diamond. Yet, if they are able to increase the pressure on it, it will form much sooner. Just wondering if there's a correlation between carbon dating & the amount of pressure of being miles under water for over 40 days.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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#42
I wonder if the pressure of the flood could have messed up the dating process. For instance, scientists say it takes I believe thousands of years for a piece of carbon under pressure to form a diamond. Yet, if they are able to increase the pressure on it, it will form much sooner. Just wondering if there's a correlation between carbon dating & the amount of pressure of being miles under water for over 40 days.
I never thought of that, but I am assuming you are correct. Good thinking!
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#43
The Murray reference is funny. I have a paper titled " the crimson thread through the bible" by criswell. I believe he is a little older than Murray.
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#44
The Murray reference is funny. I have a paper titled " the crimson thread through the bible" by criswell. I believe he is a little older than Murray.
And the gap is mentioned
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#45
I wonder if the pressure of the flood could have messed up the dating process. For instance, scientists say it takes I believe thousands of years for a piece of carbon under pressure to form a diamond. Yet, if they are able to increase the pressure on it, it will form much sooner. Just wondering if there's a correlation between carbon dating & the amount of pressure of being miles under water for over 40 days.
It's not so much that, as the magnetic storm that accompanied it. And the technology that helped cause it. Both interfered with cosmic ray absorption from space. Just cut that off a few percent, and you can gain a thousand years in dating computations. I am told somewhere they have a dinsoaur whose tail is 50,000 years older than his head, or some such thing. Theoretically, all he had to do was linger sick for a couple days before death under a magnetic cloud, and you get this kind of result. I would say all bets are off on any dating before the flood, until these things are better understood.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#46
Well I never studied Mythology so I didn't get it from there. All I'm suggesting is that there could be a gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 when God started to move and where He chose to manifest His presence. I'll have to gather up more facts in order to continue this, besides what our observation of the universe clearly tells us. However, I with you'd address the harder question that I presented using Romans 1:20 in that God's attributes are clearly seen by His creation. Thus if the universe appears very old, then is one of God's attributes one of deception?

I would also like to ask, if you drew a Big circle and say that in this circle contains all the knowledge of God (if possible), how much of this circle do you think you know about Him? 1/2 the circle? a 3rd? a speck? I would suggest we all know a tiny fraction of a speck. So how do we know what has done, can do, will do, in regards to the things we aren't told outside of His Word?
the issue is that the bible doesn't require a gap...and the 'science' doesn't support the kind of thing the gap theory posits...namely there is no scientist who will agree that all life on earth was wiped out and the planet reduced to a formless chaos and then recreated and reinhabited within the biblical time frame...

so like i said...the gap theory isn't in harmony with the bible -or- science...it is a brand new 'creation myth' that disagrees with both...

the universe only appears to be very old if you approach it with the assumptions of uniformitarianism...so God isn't deceiving anyone...people are deceiving themselves by applying mistaken preconceptions...

the truth is that we -are- told in God's word how God created the world and how recently...so that is something we know about God...it is just that some people want to believe both the bible and secular assumptions...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#47
Good point and well taken. But really is there any evidence that suggest that elements used in these dating methods had different properties prior the flood?
actually there is...read some of the young earth creationist literature...

for one example...the sheer amount of vegetation prior to the flood would have diluted the amount of carbon-14 in the biosphere...and any vapor canopy would have helped to shield the earth from the radiation that produces carbon-14 in the first place...so samples from that time period would contain little C-14 because they had much less to begin with...making them appear to be much older than they really are...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#48
I wonder if the pressure of the flood could have messed up the dating process. For instance, scientists say it takes I believe thousands of years for a piece of carbon under pressure to form a diamond. Yet, if they are able to increase the pressure on it, it will form much sooner. Just wondering if there's a correlation between carbon dating & the amount of pressure of being miles under water for over 40 days.
actually see my previous post for the most likely answer to the radiocarbon dating question according to creation scientists nowdays...

also you might be interested to know that detectable amounts of carbon-14 have been found in diamonds...amounts that would date them to only thousands of years old instead of billions...
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#49
Carbon 14 dating is suspect without a doubt. There are other methods of determining that the creation is older than six thousand years...

The decay process of Uranium...

The daughter nuclide of a decay event may also be unstable (radioactive). In this case, it will also decay, producing radiation. The resulting second daughter nuclide may also be radioactive. This can lead to a sequence of several decay events. Eventually, a stable nuclide is produced. This is called a decay chain (see this article for specific details of important natural decay chains).

An example is the natural decay chain of [SUP]238[/SUP]U, which is as follows:

  • decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 4.5 billion years to thorium-234
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 24 days to protactinium-234
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 1.2 minutes to uranium-234
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 240 thousand years to thorium-230
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 77 thousand years to radium-226
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 1.6 thousand years to radon-222
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 3.8 days to polonium-218
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 3.1 minutes to lead-214
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 27 minutes to bismuth-214
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 20 minutes to polonium-214
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 160 microseconds to lead-210
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 22 years to bismuth-210
  • which decays, through beta-emission, with a half-life of 5 days to polonium-210
  • which decays, through alpha-emission, with a half-life of 140 days to lead-206, which is a stable nuclide.

These are measurable facts.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#50
ya...ppl want to believe other modern myths....like the earth is spinning and hurtling through space since the big bang and everything revolves around Sun worshipper Copernicus god.....the Sun
 
May 15, 2013
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#51
I wonder if the pressure of the flood could have messed up the dating process. For instance, scientists say it takes I believe thousands of years for a piece of carbon under pressure to form a diamond. Yet, if they are able to increase the pressure on it, it will form much sooner. Just wondering if there's a correlation between carbon dating & the amount of pressure of being miles under water for over 40 days.
How science studies how old the earth is by fossil layers and carbon dating is actually measured by comparing what they have found that they know the time period of. But the rest are just theories. But from what I had read in Genesis is that there were a watery substance suspended in a nothingness just like a bubble floating in the air. Then some energy like the sun appearred in the center of this watery mass. And from this core started branching out trails of lava flowing to the surfce of this watery mass and spreading all across the surface of it. Then it hardened and which I believe that the author of Genesis ( Moses) referred as the firmament. So the surface of this watery substance was surrounded by a firmament ( Earth crust) and then giant Gysers started bursting out from then ground soaking the ground and the excess water had flow to the lowest point creating a great lake. Then plants and the rest started to appear on the earth. When during the time of Noah; it started to rain and saturating the ground causing the ground to collapsed into the water that was underneath the ground that created tremendous splash of water that look like from ground level great springs of water bursting from the ground. So basically the people during those times were sinking downward into the depth of the waters. Then I believe that the earth core started growing and push the broken collapsed crust to resurface above the waters. They have found a few building structures beneath the sea and I believe that they were the cities during the times of Noah.

Here is some sites.

'Britain's Atlantis' found at bottom of North sea - a huge undersea kingdom swamped by a tsunami 5,500 years ago | Mail Online
7 Cities Found Under The SeaSea Of Galilee's Underwater Stone 'Monument' Puzzles Archaeologists In Israel
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#52
the issue is that the bible doesn't require a gap...[/quote) neither does it require Genesis 1:1 to be included in the first day.

and the 'science' doesn't support the kind of thing the gap theory posits.
Neither does is support that the earth is 6000 yrs old that young earth creationist posits.

..namely there is no scientist who will agree that all life on earth was wiped out and the planet reduced to a formless chaos and then recreated and reinhabited within the biblical time frame...
Neither am I suggesting that. But I'm not ruling it completely out either. I simply don't know because the bible, Genesis, doesn't give us all the details. Such as 1. when did Satan rebel? 2. where there any universal consequences for Satan's fall (such as similar to the fall of man)

so like i said...the gap theory isn't in harmony with the bible -or- science...it is a brand new 'creation myth' that disagrees with both...
I don't call it a gap, but simply suggest the earth could have been created long before Genesis 1:2b. And not only that this could be possible but the book of nature supports it.

the universe only appears to be very old if you approach it with the assumptions of uniformitarianism...so God isn't deceiving anyone...people are deceiving themselves by applying mistaken preconceptions...
and the bible supports a young earth if you approach it with the assumption that Genesis 1:1 belongs in day one.

the truth is that we -are- told in God's word how God created the world and how recently...so that is something we know about God...it is just that some people want to believe both the bible and secular assumptions...
I don't believe he answers the "how recent" question, but your right in God created the world, there is no argument there. I don't totally hold to the view anymore that Genesis 1 was meant to give a time line events, but an order of events, but rather it's something I'm exploring.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#53
...young earth creationists recognize the -huge- implications of a global flood...including the fact that it would completely disrupt the vast majority of scientific dating methods when applied to things from the flood and the pre flood era...
Jeremiah 33:25
This is what the LORD says: If I do not keep My covenant with the day and with the night and fail to establish the fixed order of heaven and earth,

The flood didn't change anything regarding that laws of scientific dating. The only thing that did change was the environment in which somethings decayed in, in which can be compensated for...What you said contradicts what you said here.
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
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#54
Genesis 1 is not just about the beginning but also about the end. God said,
Isaiah46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
so this could be about the end of the age.

Isaiah 45:18
18. For thus saith [SUP]1[/SUP]the LORD °That created the heavens; God Himself °That formed the earth and °made it; he hath established it, °He created it not °in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: " I am [SUP]1[/SUP] the LORD;
and there is none else

2 Peter 3:5-7 [SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they will fully forget: that bythe word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, [SUP]6 [/SUP]by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

when God's people turn from him the earth lost order every time and God stepped in.


Jeremiah 4 22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are silly children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.23 I beheld the earth, and,see, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and,see, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly




 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#55
Is there a gap in time between gen 1:1-1:2 ? I have to tell you , I am kind if leaning in that direction , but I am not sure,
The only gap is a few millimeters between the print.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#57
the issue is that the bible doesn't require a gap...[/quote) neither does it require Genesis 1:1 to be included in the first day.

Neither does is support that the earth is 6000 yrs old that young earth creationist posits.

Neither am I suggesting that. But I'm not ruling it completely out either. I simply don't know because the bible, Genesis, doesn't give us all the details. Such as 1. when did Satan rebel? 2. where there any universal consequences for Satan's fall (such as similar to the fall of man)

I don't call it a gap, but simply suggest the earth could have been created long before Genesis 1:2b. And not only that this could be possible but the book of nature supports it.

and the bible supports a young earth if you approach it with the assumption that Genesis 1:1 belongs in day one.

I don't believe he answers the "how recent" question, but your right in God created the world, there is no argument there. I don't totally hold to the view anymore that Genesis 1 was meant to give a time line events, but an order of events, but rather it's something I'm exploring.
You could just not conform, and stop feeling like you have to conform because "only stoopid people believe that."
 
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notconformed2theworld

Guest
#58
I do not oppose the gap theory but then there's really not a lot of evidence for it. Either way its not gonna send me to heaven or hell so I'm not to concerned about it. But I do think the earth is older than 6000. Also I don't think dinosaurs lived with present day humans but people claim that something big wiped them out, so it could of been a flood. This is just something we will all find out when we get to heaven because we will know all things.
 
Feb 5, 2013
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#59
Here are the pictures of what happening from Gen 1: 1-2 until 3:

1st picture
Gen. 1:1= Creation

Gen. 1:2= Destruction

Gen. 1:3= Restoration

2nd picture
Gen. 1:1= This verse shows the beginning of all Creation(except adamic era) and Perfection. God not only created the earth but the "Heavens" (Plural);such as: 1st heaven(Our atmosphere we see), 2nd heaven(The heavenly or The Universe), and then the 3rd heaven(Where God and His angels dwell). This must be the time also when God created His angels. Probably, God first created the angels before the heavens and earth. He also made the earth to be inhabited with animals during this time(dinosaurs,mammoth and others),but the most amazing of all is that God created a "Race",it's not human,nor angels,but the bible calls it "inhabitants",meaning a "race" that walked on earth prior to Adam. Who was this "Race"? What's happening to them? Where are they Now? Well that is another topic, I will answer that question in the next thread since we are talking about the old-earth here and not the pre-adamic race.

Gen 1:2= The destruction occurred because part of the verse says "was without form and void",meaning it was destroyed. What caused it to become destroyed? But the right question is, who caused it and why did God,of His Anger, destroy the earth?We are pretty sure that there were beings(not only one being) to whom triggered God of His terrible anger. Because of that, life on earth of all forms at that time have vanished,including dinosaurs and other pre-adamic animals. Notice that this destruction was prior to Noah's flood. This destruction was so great that not only destroy the inhabitants and the animals thereof but destroyed also the earth with great earthquake and great flood which the mountains turned upside down and water was rebuked and turns into a frozen water which scientist nowadays calls it the "ICE AGE". Remember,part of this verse talks about the "Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. These waters which being talked about here is frozen water when earth filled with. Scientist can't really figure out why and what happened when all the answers are in the Bible. Not only that,God rebuked the sun and permitted it not to shine again,in other words, He shut the sun down. I can give you verses and proofs regarding this matter to the next thread.

Gen 1:3= Ok here we are now in Restoration process. The word "Let" there is not a word of creation but it's a word of "permission". God restored first, the Sun after a hundreds of years of being shut down. We don't know exactly for how long the earth has been frozen or the sun has been shutdown, maybe over a hundreds of years since scientist have proven it that the "ice age era" last over hundreds of years.And then in the following verses ,He restored back the earth and the atmosphere and created again new animals. And the most amazing part on the following verses,God created a "NEW RACE",the HUMAN RACE, A RACE THAT WAS CREATED AFTER GOD'S OWN IMAGE. a much more special than the previous race. There's no beings on heaven and earth that was created after God's likeness but only the Human race, No angels ever was. God first created the male and then from the male's ribs,He created the female.God called them Adam. God gave adam DOMINION overall. And then Adam ,the NEW KING on earth, emerged for the first king had FALLEN. God not only gave adam dominion over the animals but also over the devil himself,his demons,and his fallen angels. God said to Adam,Subdue them,keep them under control.

And now here we come to another interesting part of the following verses. Another answer of the question whether earth was inhabited or not prior to adam. In Gen.1:28 God said to them, " REPLENISH the earth," meaning "REPOPULATE",refill, What? This is shocking ! meaning there were a race or beings and animals before Adam. Indeed,the earth was fully inhabited before ours or Adam. God said "Replenish" because it was full once and destroyed and then refill it again. The same scenario to Noah after the 2nd flood occurred. God said to Noah " Replenish" the earth because it was once inhabited by adam and his descendants and got destroyed and God wants Noah to REPOPULATE it again with Humans and animals(Gen.9:1).

3rd Picture

Gen. 1: 1 until 2 =These verses told about the creation and the destruction of earth. We dont really know the exact time between 1 and 2,it could be more than billions or more. But based on the evidence that our modern scientists have been gathered, the earth is billions of years old, so we assume this as billions since the scientists have proven it many times.

The most important part that I want you to know here during this long period of time between 1 and 2 is about Lucifer. Lucifer was a perfect angel.The meaning of his name is day star or light holder. He was not always satan. He is above all of the angels in heaven. Theres no angels in heaven that has two positions except Lucifer. He can be an arkangel and he can also be a cherub. there are 3 ark angels in the Bible such as: Michael,Gabriel and Lucifer(the fallen one). They are chief angels. Each one of them have carried 1/3 of the common angels of their rule. Lucifer is also a worship angel,he leads the music in heaven. there's no angels who can sing like him. The bible says He was a walking orchestra. And here's the amazing part, there's no angel who was ever anointed except lucifer(Eze28:14). People,you got to know whom you are fighting with. you are dealing with a being who can understand the anointing and maybe also who can defeat the anointed of their ignorance,for billions of years Lucifer has been anointed. The bible also calls him the anointed cherub. The anointing never came to gabriel and michael and other angels. it was lucifer alone.

Lucifer not only ruled the earth but the 1st and 2nd heaven also. The bible says Lucifer was in eden(Eze.28:13),this was pre-adamic eden meaning he was on earth. You got to understand that there were 2 two edens,one belong to lucifer and the other belongs to adam. Lucifer was the first ruler on earth. He ruled over here the animals and the "first race" which God created. He ruled also the heavenly(2nd heaven) which is the habitation of 1/3 of God's angel that under lucifer's command. Lucifer rules between Gen. 1:1 and 2. Lucifer has been on earth for billions of years before adam. He was the "first King" prior to Adam. He was a perfect angel for billions of years until iniquity found in him.

Jealousy is the first and original sin recorded in bible. It was found in Lucifer's heart. He looks up and saw God in heaven sitting on his throne and became jealous. Meaning, He was below heaven during this jealousy in his heart occurred,in other words, he was right here on earth when that took place (isaiah 14:12-15). Because of this, Lucifer has managed to convince all the 1/3 God's angels who are under his command ,that God is bad and needs to step down from his throne. Lucifer was able to convince also all of the inhabitants( a race prior to adam) in favor to his side. Lucifer was supposed to be a mediator between the "first race" and God. His duty was to bring the praises of the "race" on earth to God but rather,he kept it for himself.

And now the plan of heaven invasion has been settled. Lucifer and his angels invaded heaven,but michael with his angels to whom under his command was hindering them. The war of the heavenly between Lucifer and michael and their angels was the most amazing story that was ever happening in the history somewhere in the 3rd heaven.
This was the first battle between good and evil. Lucifer and his angels fought back but they were defeated and nowhere any place for them in heaven anymore. They were thrown down to earth to the side of the pit(Rev12:7-9). This was the time when Lucifer fall from heaven and he became satan (luke 10:18).

During Lucifer's fall, the time that God was so angry. That He destroyed the earth and all the inhabitants(the race prior to adam) and animals thereof. Lucifer ,became satan, has no longer in position. He was thrown down to the pit together with the "first race",the bible calls them his demons after the fall. The first race or preadamic race are the "demons" of today. One must understand that the demons and fallens angels are big different. demons are earthbound while fallen angels are heavenbound. demons seek bodies while fallen angels had bodies. The bodies of the "first race" or demons have been destroyed during the fall,thats why they seek bodies. On the other hand ,Satan has managed to get out from the pit and then tempted Adam.

Gen 1:3 up to now= meaning from verse 3 up to our modern time is 6000 years old. God restored back the earth. God created man adam. He's now the new king of the earth. Here's the order here: God first gave it to Lucifer. but lucifer has fallen. Turned over it to Adam but Adam gave it back to Lucifer who's now became satan through eating the "fruit". And satan regained his position as ruler. This is the reason why Jesus came as the 2nd adam. He came as the 2nd adam Not because,the angels failed,nor the first race or demons failed BUT BECAUSE OF THE ONE WHO WAS CREATED IN HIS OWN IMAGE FAILED. Jesus destroyed satan by the power of His perfection " When He said on the cross IT IS FINISHED". Jesus regained back the position which satan stole from adam. And Jesus said " I GAVE U NOW THE AUTHORITY". The authority over demons,fallen angels,sickness,desease,poverty and even satan himself. to whom this authority to be given?the answer is to the REDEEMED. The same authority which adam had. John 1:12 halleluah amen.

Like i said before , this is very vast subject that i cannot write the whole topic down here.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#60
You guys who believe in the Gap Theory are really clutching at straws. All it is this: the first verse introduces the fact that God created the heavens and the earth and then verse 2 onwards talks about the creation process in detail. It's a common method used in both non-fiction and fiction. I'm surprised you speculate over nothing of consequence.