Do You Celebrate Christmas?
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K
You first show me Scriptures on where it says to wear a ring etc. Also show me where it says in the Bible "do not celebrate Christmas" those Words.No, do not celebrate Christs birth,where is that verse? The angels sang praises,the Shepards in the fields went to find him.The wise men traveled from afar just to bring him presents.And yes I know it wasnt on the day he was born.But to those who say the Bible didn't celebrate his birth are fooling themselves. No where does the Bible forbid celebrating Christs birth. I dont agree with the commercial Christmas some celebrate but to say you're in for hell fire because of a dead tree i'd say its nonsense.Because as I said if that is true you better stop using any product or company that has to do with pagan roots. And if you have a wedding ring you better trash it.
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The Bible teaches us to remember Christ's death, burial, & resurrection, not His birth. That said, I still celebrate christmas.
Christmas does have its beginnings in heathen idolatry, true enough. The world teaches their children to believe in Santa Claus, which is idolatry. Jesus is taken more & more out of christmas. All of this is true.
OK, let's look at some more truth. Paul taught that eating meat offered to idols by christians is nothing. It didn't mean doing so would mean christians were idol worshippers, just like having a christmas trees & holly doesn't mean we worship the Norse gods, such as Odin.
Which one of us bows down to Santa Claus? Which of us celebrates the 12 days of christmas with its multiple gods? NOBODY.
But, I'll tell you what the Apostle did. He walked into an idolatrous city, stood in one of its worldliest buildings on Mar's Hill, & preached to the heathens about an altar they had built to the unknown god. (Acts 17:17-35)
Gee whiz, people. the church has a harvest festival during Halloween, an obvious satanic holiday, & nobody says nothin', then cry about celebrating christmas, festivities whose origins are not known by the public & they don't care.
If the church is wise enough to take advantage of Halloween & witness Christ, what's wrong with taking advantage of christmas?
Surely someone's straining at a knat & swallowing a camel. Nothing to see here, folks....... move along.
Christmas does have its beginnings in heathen idolatry, true enough. The world teaches their children to believe in Santa Claus, which is idolatry. Jesus is taken more & more out of christmas. All of this is true.
OK, let's look at some more truth. Paul taught that eating meat offered to idols by christians is nothing. It didn't mean doing so would mean christians were idol worshippers, just like having a christmas trees & holly doesn't mean we worship the Norse gods, such as Odin.
Which one of us bows down to Santa Claus? Which of us celebrates the 12 days of christmas with its multiple gods? NOBODY.
But, I'll tell you what the Apostle did. He walked into an idolatrous city, stood in one of its worldliest buildings on Mar's Hill, & preached to the heathens about an altar they had built to the unknown god. (Acts 17:17-35)
Gee whiz, people. the church has a harvest festival during Halloween, an obvious satanic holiday, & nobody says nothin', then cry about celebrating christmas, festivities whose origins are not known by the public & they don't care.
If the church is wise enough to take advantage of Halloween & witness Christ, what's wrong with taking advantage of christmas?
Surely someone's straining at a knat & swallowing a camel. Nothing to see here, folks....... move along.
K
No, I do not. Now my grand daughter is with us a few days..and I am facing what I have caused by teaching her daddy falsehoods. She is questioning me about santa. she is trying to still believe in the fat man who sneaks down the chimney with toys, but some of her classmates say it's all a big fat lie! Oh the tangled web we weave......so now I have to make decisions that don't bring me any joy..I have told her she needs to discuss these things with her parents, who am I to usurp their authority? I brought this on myself, I inherited it from my parents, but where do the lies end?
M
I have had this same conversation with you before and I haven't changed my mind. I celebrate Christmas in my own way - no one else's and nothing you quote law-wise is going to change my mind. Jesus came to free us from all this law nonsense. There is a reason all churches celebrate Christmas and I don't consider I know better than they do.
I meant no offence, I just thought since you said you knew it was pagan that I would post that passage. I have to say, The Messiah came to set us free from sin, not free from do not kill.
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
These passages are completely IRRELEVANT when it comes to celebrating Christmas or not!
I celebrate Christmas on 25th December, I also celebrate Easter on the date that is given each year using the Gregorian calendar, I am FULLY aware that these dates are NOT correct (the birth of Christ was at the Feast of Tabernacles and the crucifixion was at Feast of Passover/Unleavened bread), but I celebrate them in full knowledge of their meaning and what they mean to me personally, other Christians and the world!
Yahweh Shalom
I celebrate Christmas on 25th December, I also celebrate Easter on the date that is given each year using the Gregorian calendar, I am FULLY aware that these dates are NOT correct (the birth of Christ was at the Feast of Tabernacles and the crucifixion was at Feast of Passover/Unleavened bread), but I celebrate them in full knowledge of their meaning and what they mean to me personally, other Christians and the world!
Yahweh Shalom
K
Ok point by point...
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 1: CHRISTMAS IS COMMERCIALIZED AND MATERIALISTIC... If we use this argument as a legitimate reason for discarding the entire celebration of Christ's birth at Christmas, it would follow that we would end up having to throw out everything--even our Bibles and our wives or husbands. Why? Because Satan and man distort and ruins everything in life--the Bible, sex, marriage, the church, food--everything. Name one thing that Satan doesn't ruin. We don't throw things out just because the world misuses or distorts them.[/h]
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 2: SCRIPTURE DOESN'T AUTHORIZE IT...This is what we could legitimately call hyperliteralism in the use of Scripture. Such an approach completely misses the spirit and intent of the Bible. Hyperliteralism (or letterism) is an intense devotion to the details of the Bible in such a way that one misses the spirit and essential thrust of a passage. Mountains are made out of mole hills and the truth is missed. One is busy counting the number of letters in a sentence rather than listening to its instruction.[/h]
If we applied this argument consistently, we would need to discontinue the use of overheads, musical instruments, hymnals, chorus books, the church building, pews, Sunday school, Christian schools, and many other things. Further, there could be no special services or seasons to commemorate things God has done as with Thanksgiving or a dedication service for a new building.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 3: SCRIPTURE FORBIDS IT...What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.[/h]In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ--but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality. Note what the Apostle says, "let no one act as your judge in regard to . . ." He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are requirements for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.
Colossians 2:16 and 17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes and the spirit in which it is done.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 4: CHRISTMAS TRADITIONS ARE FROM PAGANISM...(1) The pagan associations were lost long ago[/h]The names of the days of our week also had their origin in pagan beliefs. Thursday originally stood for the Germanic god of the sky or of thunder. Tuesday stood for Tiw, the god of war. And Wednesday is derived from Woden, the chief god in Germanic mythology. Sunday and Monday were related somehow to the worship of the sun and the moon. Saturday is from Saturnus, or Saturn, and Friday comes from Fria, the goddess of love.
All of these ancient meanings with their beliefs and associations were lost long ago. When Friday roles around we don't think about Fria, the goddess of love. On Saturday we don't think about it as Saturn's day, but as our day off! The same applies to the traditions of Christmas. If one observed the days of the week or the Christmas season with their ancient associations in mind, certainly it would be wrong. But many of these things, as with our Sunday, have been given Christian connotations.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 5: UNCERTAINTY OF THE DATE OF CHRIST'S BIRTH....By considering the chronological notes in Scripture such as Luke 2:1, "it seems that the evidence would lead one to conclude that Christ's birth occurred sometime in the winter of 5/4 B.C." (Hoehner, p. 350). Our concern here is not with the year, but with the month Christ was born--or at least the time of year, i.e., winter or spring. Is a winter date out of the question? Is it possible or maybe even probable?[/h]1. Hoehner points out that the traditional date for the birth of Christ as December 25th dates back to as early as Hippolytus (A..D. 165-235). In the Eastern church January 6th was the date used for Christ's birth. But this is still a winter date and not far removed from December 25th.
2. Chrysostom (A..D. 345-407) in 386 stated that December 25th is the correct date and hence it became the official date for Christ's birth except in the Eastern church which still retained January 6th.
3. One of the main objections has been that sheep were usually taken into enclosures from November through March and were not out in the fields at night. However, this is not as conclusive as it sounds for the following reasons: (a) It could have been a mild winter. (b) It is not at all certain that sheep were always brought into enclosures during the winter months. (c) It is true that during the winter months sheep were brought in from the wilderness, but remember, Luke tells us the shepherds were near Bethlehem rather than in the wilderness. This indicates, if anything, the nativity was in the winter months. (d) The Mishnah tells us the shepherds around Bethlehem were outside all year and those worthy of the Passover were nearby in the fields at least 30 days before the feast which could be as early as February (one of the coldest, rainiest months of the year). So December is a very reasonable date.
ames Kelso, an archaeologist who spent a number of years living in Palestine and who has done extensive research there says this:
The best season for the shepherds of Bethlehem is the winter when heavy rains bring up a luscious crop of new grass. After the rains the once-barren, brown desert earth is suddenly a field of brilliant green. One year when excavating at New Testament Jericho, I lived in Jerusalem and drove through this area twice every day. At one single point along the road, I could see at times as many as five shepherds with their flocks on one hillside. One shepherd stayed with his flock at the same point for three weeks, so lush was the grass. But as soon as the rains stopped in the spring, the land quickly took on its normal desert look once again.
Since there seem to have been a number of shepherds who came to see the Christ child, December or January would be the most likely months.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 6: CHRISTMAS MEANS "CHRIST'S MASS"...Christ + mass, can also mean "a large number or quantity." It can also mean simply a mass of religious services in commemoration of the birth of Christ. In other words, mass stands for festival involving a number of religious activities, and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic ritual of the Eucharist.[/h]Further, even if the term originally referred to the Roman Catholic ritual of the Eucharist, it long ago lost that connotation and is really not an issue.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 1: CHRISTMAS IS COMMERCIALIZED AND MATERIALISTIC... If we use this argument as a legitimate reason for discarding the entire celebration of Christ's birth at Christmas, it would follow that we would end up having to throw out everything--even our Bibles and our wives or husbands. Why? Because Satan and man distort and ruins everything in life--the Bible, sex, marriage, the church, food--everything. Name one thing that Satan doesn't ruin. We don't throw things out just because the world misuses or distorts them.[/h]
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 2: SCRIPTURE DOESN'T AUTHORIZE IT...This is what we could legitimately call hyperliteralism in the use of Scripture. Such an approach completely misses the spirit and intent of the Bible. Hyperliteralism (or letterism) is an intense devotion to the details of the Bible in such a way that one misses the spirit and essential thrust of a passage. Mountains are made out of mole hills and the truth is missed. One is busy counting the number of letters in a sentence rather than listening to its instruction.[/h]
If we applied this argument consistently, we would need to discontinue the use of overheads, musical instruments, hymnals, chorus books, the church building, pews, Sunday school, Christian schools, and many other things. Further, there could be no special services or seasons to commemorate things God has done as with Thanksgiving or a dedication service for a new building.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 3: SCRIPTURE FORBIDS IT...What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.[/h]In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ--but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality. Note what the Apostle says, "let no one act as your judge in regard to . . ." He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are requirements for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.
Colossians 2:16 and 17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes and the spirit in which it is done.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 4: CHRISTMAS TRADITIONS ARE FROM PAGANISM...(1) The pagan associations were lost long ago[/h]The names of the days of our week also had their origin in pagan beliefs. Thursday originally stood for the Germanic god of the sky or of thunder. Tuesday stood for Tiw, the god of war. And Wednesday is derived from Woden, the chief god in Germanic mythology. Sunday and Monday were related somehow to the worship of the sun and the moon. Saturday is from Saturnus, or Saturn, and Friday comes from Fria, the goddess of love.
All of these ancient meanings with their beliefs and associations were lost long ago. When Friday roles around we don't think about Fria, the goddess of love. On Saturday we don't think about it as Saturn's day, but as our day off! The same applies to the traditions of Christmas. If one observed the days of the week or the Christmas season with their ancient associations in mind, certainly it would be wrong. But many of these things, as with our Sunday, have been given Christian connotations.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 5: UNCERTAINTY OF THE DATE OF CHRIST'S BIRTH....By considering the chronological notes in Scripture such as Luke 2:1, "it seems that the evidence would lead one to conclude that Christ's birth occurred sometime in the winter of 5/4 B.C." (Hoehner, p. 350). Our concern here is not with the year, but with the month Christ was born--or at least the time of year, i.e., winter or spring. Is a winter date out of the question? Is it possible or maybe even probable?[/h]1. Hoehner points out that the traditional date for the birth of Christ as December 25th dates back to as early as Hippolytus (A..D. 165-235). In the Eastern church January 6th was the date used for Christ's birth. But this is still a winter date and not far removed from December 25th.
2. Chrysostom (A..D. 345-407) in 386 stated that December 25th is the correct date and hence it became the official date for Christ's birth except in the Eastern church which still retained January 6th.
3. One of the main objections has been that sheep were usually taken into enclosures from November through March and were not out in the fields at night. However, this is not as conclusive as it sounds for the following reasons: (a) It could have been a mild winter. (b) It is not at all certain that sheep were always brought into enclosures during the winter months. (c) It is true that during the winter months sheep were brought in from the wilderness, but remember, Luke tells us the shepherds were near Bethlehem rather than in the wilderness. This indicates, if anything, the nativity was in the winter months. (d) The Mishnah tells us the shepherds around Bethlehem were outside all year and those worthy of the Passover were nearby in the fields at least 30 days before the feast which could be as early as February (one of the coldest, rainiest months of the year). So December is a very reasonable date.
ames Kelso, an archaeologist who spent a number of years living in Palestine and who has done extensive research there says this:
The best season for the shepherds of Bethlehem is the winter when heavy rains bring up a luscious crop of new grass. After the rains the once-barren, brown desert earth is suddenly a field of brilliant green. One year when excavating at New Testament Jericho, I lived in Jerusalem and drove through this area twice every day. At one single point along the road, I could see at times as many as five shepherds with their flocks on one hillside. One shepherd stayed with his flock at the same point for three weeks, so lush was the grass. But as soon as the rains stopped in the spring, the land quickly took on its normal desert look once again.
Since there seem to have been a number of shepherds who came to see the Christ child, December or January would be the most likely months.
[h=4]ARGUMENT NUMBER 6: CHRISTMAS MEANS "CHRIST'S MASS"...Christ + mass, can also mean "a large number or quantity." It can also mean simply a mass of religious services in commemoration of the birth of Christ. In other words, mass stands for festival involving a number of religious activities, and is not a reference to the Roman Catholic ritual of the Eucharist.[/h]Further, even if the term originally referred to the Roman Catholic ritual of the Eucharist, it long ago lost that connotation and is really not an issue.
J
With the way it seems to be going, I honestly don't know. Lacked the motivation this year and realizing the greed that comes out of it. Last year felt similar. Besides, why do we need a day that Jesus was likely not born on to remember what He has done? I'll admit, some songs still have me listen to. To each his/her own...
I say enjoy it. The holidays are great.
A great time to be with family, friends, to eat a lot and exchange gifts.
To enjoy the snow (in some places) cozy fires with a loved one. The baking of cookies. The decorating of the house and tree and making hot chocolate with our kids, while we build a gingerbread house. Did I leave something out.......
?
I enjoy Christmas, but for the things I stated above, .....I celebrate Christ's birth date everyday, I don't need a special holiday to do so.
A great time to be with family, friends, to eat a lot and exchange gifts.
To enjoy the snow (in some places) cozy fires with a loved one. The baking of cookies. The decorating of the house and tree and making hot chocolate with our kids, while we build a gingerbread house. Did I leave something out.......
?I enjoy Christmas, but for the things I stated above, .....I celebrate Christ's birth date everyday, I don't need a special holiday to do so.
In ancient Israyl the Israylites worship Yahweh in ways He did not tell them to. They worshiped Yahweh in ways that were invented for "gods" or "idols", thus, "You must not worship Yahweh your Father in their way
The things that are historically recorded are done so for our learning;"
Romans 15:4, "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When Yahweh your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods, saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship Yahweh your Father in their way, for every abomination to Yahweh, which He hates, they have done to their gods. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it."
And there is connection, sitting on "santa's" lap tradition
came from this ("burn their sons and daughters in the fire")
The statue was glowing red-hot... Thats why he wears red and his name is satan, or santa
The things that are historically recorded are done so for our learning;"
Romans 15:4, "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
Deuteronomy 12:29-32, “When Yahweh your Father cuts off the nations from in front of you, and you displace them and live in their land, Be careful not to be ensnared into following them by asking about their gods, saying: How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do the same. You must not worship Yahweh your Father in their way, for every abomination to Yahweh, which He hates, they have done to their gods. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. Whatsoever I command you, be careful to observe and do it, you shall not add to it, nor take away from it."
And there is connection, sitting on "santa's" lap tradition
came from this ("burn their sons and daughters in the fire")
The statue was glowing red-hot... Thats why he wears red and his name is satan, or santa
1) does scripture authorize stetting aside Dec 25th as some kind of Holy Day" Christians are to participate in? If not, then where does the Christian get authority to do such?
2) if what you posted above were true, then the bible has NO authority at all and people can choose for themselves as to what is right and wrong. The idea that "if the bible does not specifically forbid it then it must be allowed" is very flawed exegesis, flawed logic.
In Col 2:16 Paul was dealing with Judaizing teachers that were trying to force NT Christians that they must keep those OT feasts/festivals/ordinances or be lost. Paul is telling these Christians you do not have to keep those OT feasts/festivals/ordinances to be saved, therefore "let no man judge (condemn) you" according to these OT feasts/festivals/ordinances. In Col 2:14 Paul noted that Christ took those OT feasts/festivals/ordinances out of the way nailing them to His cross making them inactive, of no effect. So Christians are NOT to keep the OT feasts, festivals or Sabbaths for in ROm 7:1-6 a Christian is married to Christ and His NT law and not to Moses and his OT law. So a Christian that tries and keep both laws is compared as an adulteress trying to keep two husbands at the same time.
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E
I say enjoy it. The holidays are great.
A great time to be with family, friends, to eat a lot and exchange gifts.
To enjoy the snow (in some places) cozy fires with a loved one. The baking of cookies. The decorating of the house and tree and making hot chocolate with our kids, while we build a gingerbread house. Did I leave something out.......?
I enjoy Christmas, but for the things I stated above, .....I celebrate Christ's birth date everyday, I don't need a special holiday to do so.
A great time to be with family, friends, to eat a lot and exchange gifts.
To enjoy the snow (in some places) cozy fires with a loved one. The baking of cookies. The decorating of the house and tree and making hot chocolate with our kids, while we build a gingerbread house. Did I leave something out.......
?I enjoy Christmas, but for the things I stated above, .....I celebrate Christ's birth date everyday, I don't need a special holiday to do so.
Merry Christmas my brother!