Do you even have conversations with atheists?

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Sep 6, 2013
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#81
Avalon there is no evidence to support the alternative either.
I have provided evidence showing that he not only signed off on the selection of pastors for his church decades before he taught at Harvard, but that he wrote apologetics for the American Tract Society years before he even wrote his treatise on evidence (which was supposedly the basis for the students' "challenge").

On the other side, you have an urban legend made up a century after-the-fact.

The real issue here isn't the fact itself but your unwillingness to admit that your claim might be wrong, or to reconsider it when you realize you have no evidence to support it. That shows an attitude toward the truth which is simply reprehensible.
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#82
he began teaching at Harvard in 1833, his name in that ledger you sent was 1835. The book he wrote was published in the 1840's I get it, but it takes a long time to write a book, especially one that long and in depth. What else am I missing, you have a document where he signed off on pastors for a church before 1833?
 
Sep 6, 2013
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#83
he began teaching at Harvard in 1833, his name in that ledger you sent was 1835. The book he wrote was published in the 1840's I get it, but it takes a long time to write a book, especially one that long and in depth. What else am I missing, you have a document where he signed off on pastors for a church before 1833?
Yes, and I posted it already.

Will you at least acknowledge that you have NO documentation from the 1800s for Greenleaf being an atheist? Nothing from his own documents or anything else from when he was actually alive, at all?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#84
Yes, and I posted it already.

Will you at least acknowledge that you have NO documentation from the 1800s for Greenleaf being an atheist? Nothing from his own documents or anything else from when he was actually alive, at all?
Avalon, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge that fact. I really believed if I kept looking I would be able to find something. After an exhaustive exploration with google I have been able to locate no document to state he had ever been an atheist. I'll look back over your posts to find that one about the pastors, I'd really like to see that date. Thanks for your patience with me.
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#85
Avalon I see where you posted that "the sandwich said he was at the episcopal convention center in Maine prior to 1933, I can't locate an actual document online, can you?
 
S

ServantStrike

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#86
On the internet, as often as possible. I find that if the discussion is held in a non judgemental and kind manner, the atheist is usually shocked and actually has more respect for Christians than they may have before. And if enough people behave kindly towards them, perhaps they will start to look at this Christ guy more seriously and realize he is Lord.
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#87
I would hope that most Christians talk to atheists.
I love this (and most of your repliess -- keep up the great work). Yes, of course Christians can and should talk to atheists. How can one even hope to proselytize if one cannot speak to those who they think need conversion? Did God intend Christians only to bring other Christians to God?
 
Dec 25, 2009
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#88
Yes, of course Christians can and should talk to atheists. How can one even hope to proselytize if one cannot speak to those who they think need conversion? Did God intend Christians only to bring other Christians to God?
I think some Christians avoid it sometimes due to Matthrew 7:6;
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

I think that it applies to many atheists but not all of them. Some atheists just do not want to listen, but many other atheists are open-minded and very willing to listen and consider if the Christian have information that is thought provoking. I think some Christians generalize all atheists together and think that any attempt to convert is pointless. However, thankfully, there are a large number of Christians who realize that it isn't a waste of their time.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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#89
Avalon I see where you posted that "the sandwich
said he was at the episcopal convention center in Maine prior to 1933, I can't locate an actual document online, can you?
Sorry for the delay; I thought the earlier links included it. I'm not able to look it up today but I will get it tomorrow.
 
Sep 6, 2013
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#90
Avalon, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge that fact. I really believed if I kept looking I would be able to find something. After an exhaustive exploration with google I have been able to locate no document to state he had ever been an atheist. I'll look back over your posts to find that one about the pastors, I'd really like to see that date. Thanks for your patience with me.
Thank you for being willing to say that.

I'll find you that reference tomorrow, but in the meantime, putting aside the Greenleaf thing, did you have some direct evidence for your beliefs that you wanted me to consider?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#91
Thank you for being willing to say that.

I'll find you that reference tomorrow, but in the meantime, putting aside the Greenleaf thing, did you have some direct evidence for your beliefs that you wanted me to consider?
well i am a living testimony of my direct beliefs. I was blinded on the side of a highway by a homeless man dressed in robes, my friend was collapsed just behind me and to my left side. For 3 days we had dreams/visions that had manifestations in reality for those 3 days be it snakes, colors or harlots. My little brother, little sister and another friend were witnesses to those 3 days of visions. However I have no document evidence on that aspect.

I would talk to you about the chariot like items that were found beneath the reed sea, where giant pillars were said to be erected by ancient kings to commemorate the event, but I don't have the patience to look up all of the evidence on that. There is scientific evidence against the big bang theory (like the galaxies spinning on different axis and different directions which suggest they didn't fly away from the same explosion.) then there is the fact that the universe is accelerating in speed rather than slowing down which suggests some invisible force is pushing everything apart. There is the global record on every continent of a great flood. There is the awesome fact that Jewish documents state that Jesus was healing people, did cast out demons and his body wasn't there on the third day. (though they say it was by demons he did those things and that his disciples stole his body) which is interesting because the Romans were very strict and had provided a Roman "seal" around the entrance of the tomb. Then of course there is the fact that all of those disciples went off to there death unable to be silenced after the resurrection. Hard to do that if they knew it was a lie. You have historians like Josephus,historian Edwin Yamauchi, Tacitus, many of these guys were very unsympathetic to the "christians" but never the less they documented all of these things providing evidence of their occurrence. There is evidence in nature. For instance look at a hummingbird.

With the exception of insects, hummingbirds while in flight have the highest metabolism of all animals, a necessity in order to support the rapid beating of their wings. Their heart rate can reach as high as 1,260 beats per minute, a rate once measured in a Blue-throated Hummingbird.[SUP][17][/SUP] They also consume more than their own weight in nectar each day, and to do so they must visit hundreds of flowers daily. Hummingbirds are continuously hours away from starving to death and are able to store just enough energy to survive overnight.[

the giraffe
Many scientists and casual observers have been intrigued by the blood-pressure regulations in an animal with so long a neck and legs. Research has shown that the giraffe has a very large heart (13kg) and that its pumping power is three times that of a man. Most important, there is an intricate network of valves in the veins and blood vessels of the neck, which prevents the brain from being filled or emptied of blood too quickly. One highly specialised vessel near the brain acts as a sponge, slowly absorbing blood to the point where pressure warns the animal to lift its head before damage occurs. Next time you see a giraffe drinking, notice that it never keeps its head down for too long.

both of these animals had to be created exactly as they were and fully intact. Had the hummingbird not had its beak to drink the nectar-death, wing beats to hover- death, all those heart beats, death. There was no room for evolution.
Same with the giraffe, for the first time it raised its head if its heart wasn't big enough it would pass out, never able to reach branches, and if it had the heart and not the sponge in its skull when it drank it would cause brain damage. Its amazing.

There are all of the prophecies in the old testament that Jesus fulfilled 333 to be exact

Mathematically speaking, the odds of anyone fulfilling this amount of prophecy are staggering. Mathematicians put it this way:
1 person fulfilling 8 prophecies: 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 1 person fulfilling 48 prophecies: 1 chance in 10 to the 157[SUP]th [/SUP] power 1 person fulfilling 300+ prophecies: Only Jesus!

then there is the simple truth that the more archaeologists search through the rubble of history instead of finding things that oppose the bible, they find things that seem to support it. A very odd situation to find ourselves in so far in the advancement of technology against something written so detailed and so long ago against what many believe to be a fabrication. Remember the bible isn't vague. It is full of this person begat this person in this year of this guys reign. So when archaeologists, historians and the like find this and that and then confirm that yes this guy was king, yes this place was here, yes it had this many pillars its exciting.

here was a scientist who turned christian:
I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry. But then I went to medical school, and encountered life and death issues at the bedsides of my patients. Challenged by one of those patients, who asked "What do you believe, doctor?", I began searching for answers.

Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - CNN.com
dr. Francis Collins

there is Jim Hovind who gives great scientific evidence against evolution and for creationism

Dr. Dino - The Age Of The Earth - YouTube

I've spent enough time on here for now. I'll be back.




 
Aug 25, 2013
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#92
yes the gist of it is on my profile.
I read your profile. It is not for me to say you didn't have the experience you claim. I know from my own experience that these things are sometimes difficult to describe. I certainly didn't read anything in your testimonial that would cause me to have anger toward you.
 
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NodMyHeadLikeYeah

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#93
I am really sorry if you don't believe in unconditional Election - the more I talk to atheists the more I am convinced of it - I wish you saw the arguments i had today!
Why are you arguing with atheists? Isn't our job to spread his word? How can you do that if your to busy arguing with a lost person. You should make better use of your time by serving those lost people, showing them God's love instead of getting into silly arguments.

These people are parishing.....
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#94
Cycel, I believe the anger I come across is because they assume that since I am telling them these things I am trying to sell them on something and since they are so convinced of the idea there is no God they come to the conclusion I am lying through my teeth and that enrages them. Thank you for your words though. I do appreciate your acceptance.
 
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Kerry

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#95
I try and have tried to have conversations with atheist, but they realise how stupid they sound and will no longer talk to me. Guess I just have that knack.
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#96
I try and have tried to have conversations with atheist, but they realise how stupid they sound and will no longer talk to me. Guess I just have that knack.
I'm fairly sure this is never true. If a person "realized how stupid they sounded" then they'd probably rationalize or self-justify their words to themselves to give them a positive spin. Nobody wants to feel stupid, and we all have a "knack" for editing our opinions to put our own actions in the best possible light.

Try some empathy. Realize that many atheists think they have that same "knack" to always win arguments (because we all can apply confirmation bias to make ourselves the winners of our arguments), just like many Christians do. Once you realize why you would "no longer talk to you" if you were in that same position, you'll realize why some atheists will no longer talk to you.
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#97
I think some Christians avoid it sometimes due to Matthrew 7:6;
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
It's a great piece of wisdom, except don't we all think that our own opinion is "pearls" and those that don't accept are "pigs"?

I think it's easy to spot a rational and open-minded thinker. A person who uses measured language such as "I think some Christians..." is the type of person who is very careful not to make the same kind of generalization, and tries to understand people on a case-by-case basis. That's the kind of person that I'd prefer to converse with.
 
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Kerry

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#98
Get one or find one or some how get a grip. You have no basis nor have you answered any of my questions. Starcrash.
 
Aug 5, 2013
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#99
I try and have tried to have conversations with atheist, but they realise how stupid they sound and will no longer talk to me. Guess I just have that knack.
I replied to this quote, the one right above these words. I don't see a question here, Kerry.
 
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7seven7

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To be honest, I'm seeing more Christianity in some Atheists than I am in some Christians on this thread. Funny that.