Do you support female pastors?

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Shoud a woman be a pastor overseeing men?


  • Total voters
    135
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#61
When Moses failed to circumcise his son, his wife had to do it. It was his duty, but he failed to live up to it and so it fell to her. Whether in the family or the church, I see many who complain that women are taking the leadership roles. But I see many more women who would love for their brothers in the Lord and their husbands and the fathers of their children to take the leadership role. Should Moses have circumcised his children? Yes! Should his wife have refused to do it in his stead, at the cost of their children's lives? No!
 
E

Elizabeth121

Guest
#62
Paul in the bible says women are to remain quiet in the church. Although I belong to a church that have female pastors, I think the original intent was for men to lead the congregation.
Good for you to believe that way, I also aggre with what you have to say
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#63
I don't think the culture, or that women were typically unlearned in that time for a couple reasons, for one, some of the apostles were unlearned and God used them just fine. It was actually part of the demonstration of His power. Two, Paul bases his instructions on what should take place in church on Adam and Eve.

1Tim 2
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

From my understanding of the whole of scripture concerning this in the N.T., it doesn't to me imply that there are no circumstances where women should teach men or witness to them, but that it should be men that are the established leadership in church. The ideal of male headship seems to be well established in scripture, as it even points to Jesus as the head of the church (leader) and the church is refered to as the bride. Paul also likens the New Covenant to the marriage covenant in regards to roles of everybody.

I think alot of what is going on in churches today regarding this issue doesn't stem from the bible but from culture and it's bombardment of our minds that humbling yourself and submitting/serving another is degrading and an infriction of liberty. Implying that it is evil and not a godly quality. That runs contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus said to humble ourselves, and while I know that is not something that comes easily for all of us, I do not think it is a degrading thing to do. Whoever humbles themselves will be exalted. :)
I agree that God used unlearned people (disciples etc) and this is a demonstration of his power but i am referencing the well misused corinthians scripture about women and explaining that side of it. I also agree that males should take the lead as spiritual head of the household and church in submission first to the ultimaate head Jesus Christ.....though not in my circumstance where i have been with my partner 14 years and I received Christ 5 yrs ago whilst he has not). In saying that I would love him too (obviously) and then I would love him to rise up and be the spiritual head but only when he is learned in these things (which I would also love him to be and in the meantime i would teach him). Jesus is the head of the church, also agreed, then men are meant to be and the women in submission to the husband (providing the husband is to treat and love his wife as Jesus loves the church). However God as you said will use anyone humble and willing to be used and Im not lying dormant when Im ready to be used of God and if that means me speaking and teaching in areas of the church rather than my non christian partner then obviously it would be me God would and could use. I agree that the bible is the unfallible word of God and that he has made very obvious guidlines that we should not and cannot change because of changing times......however the corinthians scripture is misused and if you study it more fully you would see why. I never said all women were unlearned then just that in the church of Corinth this was their issue and that was why Paul addressed it.

I like what you said about this humbling part and that it is viewed by some as degrading. I really in my heart of hearts and because I wish that Gods will would be done that men and women would be in a biblical state and effective to each other for the witnessing of CHrist but like I said where men wont and women will God will use the willing Agreed! The one thing I can rest assured in in this area is that Gods will will be done and every knee will bow.....

I love this. i get bored studying the word at home by myself all the time (child in bed, partner on nightshift). thanks for chit chat :)
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#64
When Moses failed to circumcise his son, his wife had to do it. It was his duty, but he failed to live up to it and so it fell to her. Whether in the family or the church, I see many who complain that women are taking the leadership roles. But I see many more women who would love for their brothers in the Lord and their husbands and the fathers of their children to take the leadership role. Should Moses have circumcised his children? Yes! Should his wife have refused to do it in his stead, at the cost of their children's lives? No!

Wow...agree!! well used example too!
 
I

Israel

Guest
#65
Wow...agree!! well used example too!

This is more than just that. What is the spiritual side of this story? Moses, being the mediator of the law and circumcision of the flesh was a SIGN. The real circumcision, which is of the spirit or heart is shown by faith through his wife! No one is justified by the law! Moses did not circumcise his son to show us an example that the law could not circumcise the heart!

1 Timothy 2:13-15

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#66
This is more than just that. What is the spiritual side of this story? Moses, being the mediator of the law and circumcision of the flesh was a SIGN. The real circumcision, which is of the spirit or heart is shown by faith through his wife! No one is justified by the law! Moses did not circumcise his son to show us an example that the law could not circumcise the heart!

1 Timothy 2:13-15

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
yep true.....i agree but i dont think that was how he was using that it was more an example of women rising up and able to be used to but yes if we were on that as a topic that point would have been made. Im about to put up a new thread and your opinion would be appreciated.
 
M

Minnie

Guest
#67
Paul does say that women should not teach men, however, Jesus does tell us that it is our responsibility not just our right to spread the good news of God. While that doesnt give an exact conclusion I think it would be safe to say that Jesus would rather a female preach that not tell anyone about the Good News at all. (correct me if I'm wrong :) )
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#68
Paul does say that women should not teach men, however, Jesus does tell us that it is our responsibility not just our right to spread the good news of God. While that doesnt give an exact conclusion I think it would be safe to say that Jesus would rather a female preach that not tell anyone about the Good News at all. (correct me if I'm wrong :) )
Cant correct you at all on that. Priscilla taught Paul.
 

Sharp

Senior Member
May 5, 2009
2,565
20
38
#69
First its women pastors, then its gay pastors, then its transexual pastors, then its satanic pastors.

Wake up and smell the roses people.

Why is the church being corrupted these days?

We're not doing what the bible says. We're trying to negotiate with God, claiming fairness as our argument.

Its ridiculous.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#70
First its women pastors, then its gay pastors, then its transexual pastors, then its satanic pastors.

Wake up and smell the roses people.

Why is the church being corrupted these days?

We're not doing what the bible says. We're trying to negotiate with God, claiming fairness as our argument.

Its ridiculous.
Thank you Sharp for putting this whole discussion into perspective:D
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#71
Yes, and God is the author of the Bible. So, since God is perfectly just we can therefore assume that what we find in the Epistles is not a "error" nor is it "unjust". Personally i don't see it as unjust that God ordained certain roles for men and certain roles for women.
You are assuming that Paul’s words were the Lord’s words, are you not?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#72
You are assuming that Paul’s words were the Lord’s words, are you not?
Yes because Scripture is inspired by God. Your free to believe that Paul "made a mistake", but that reasoning isn't going to fly with 99% of Christians.
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#73
Yes because Scripture is inspired by God. Your free to believe that Paul "made a mistake", but that reasoning isn't going to fly with 99% of Christians.
Most Protestant denominations allow women pastors, don’t they?
 

cookie39

Senior Member
Oct 5, 2009
616
12
18
#74
Ok, Please OPEN your spiritual ears and eyes..... Please read the bible VERSE that comes after what Paul said about Women not speaking in The Church,, Oh My, when will people stop taking scriptures out of it contexts??????
The Very Next Verse tells Us why women are not to speak in Church,,,, IT SAY, " If She Is to Be LEARNED, (not teach) LET HER ASK, (as in speak at home) Her Husband AT HOME,,,,, so in other words do not be rude, woman what ever you don't understand and you want to ask your husband wait untill you go home. as many know us women do not know how to wait, if we have somethignthing to say, lol, sorry sisters,,, we run our mouth anywhere. I am guilty of this myself, I would ask my anyone, what he say,,, did he say this or that, and ask anyone even if my husband is sitting next to me... I play with other people children, Lord forgive me.
And to the Assurping Athourity over the man, lol, this is a joke how they warpped this scripture. First; lets say if this is the way God wanted it from the begining, then he contridicted himself, When he made Deborah, A JUDGE, which the bible say,, ALL of Isreal came to her to be JUDGED, and she was a Prophetess, and a WARRIOR, YES SHE IS A WOMAN..... Now how can you Judge if you do not assurp athourity of a man and it said who her husband was... see God knew that this was going to happen so he made a complete example of what he did not mean.
Second, GOD IS TALKING ABOUT THE HUSBAND AND THE WIFE, NOt ALL MEN, He said, Wives submit to your OWN Husband, not Woman submit to men..... it did not say that MAN will have rule over you it said Adam, the Husband,,,, will be in a higher positions than you are in the home... so don't go tring to teach over what he has already tought, and don't be tring to assurp your athourity over his, so if he beat you to it, you have to submit to what he say how things are to be..... Example... If the HUSBAND,, tell his children not to go out, or they can't or can do something,,,, us Wives are not to change it, we are not to asuurp athourity over what The Husband, already did.
And for earily Church Women in ministry, there was,,,, The daughters of Phillip; Acts 21:9 ... Romans 16 speaks much of Women who labour for the Lord,,, as Paul refered to himself as a laborer of God, a workmen, a servent, so did he say many Women did also. but many want to turn a blind eye to the truth.
Remember We are to submit ourselves to our OWN HUSBANDS, and if you are not married, You Have only the Lord to submit to, outside of any athourity he set over us, as to them who are bosses in the work place, and Goverment officials, No where in the bible where it say that Woman are to Submit to all men, or not teach them, or help them, or be boss over them, this is a perfect example of what happens when scriptures are not kept in the context of what God said, many scripture standing by-themself- can mean what ever someone want them to,,,, but no matter what it can't take away what God intended it to say.... for no scriptures are open to interprtation~ only Holy Spirit Revelation...
And for those who read NIV, that's all you can come up with is interpretations, for it does not speak the truth~ therefore one have to be made up.... I have never know someone would have the heart to rip up the Word of God, as the version does... And God is reveling this to me for and more I will never touch it again.... God said just because it's easy does not make it right,,,, A leaven; leavens the whole Lump!!!
God bless those who seek the truth, and I pray he have mercy on those who reject it.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#75
Most Protestant denominations allow women pastors, don’t they?
Christianity: 2.2 billion
Roman Catholicism: 1.166 billion (does not allow female priests)
Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy: 378 million (does not allow female priests)
Protestantism: about 800 million ( which we will assume half of which allow female pastors/priests)

Number of Christians that reject female pastors/priests: 1.944 billion
Number of Christians that accept female pastors/priests: 256 million

Number of Christians that reject female pastors/priests as a percentage: 88.37%
Number of Christians that accept female pastors/priests as a percentage: 11.63%

Does that get my point across? Also note that Roman Catholicism and Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy excommunicate any female who seeks ordination (even though that ordination would be invalid). For an example of Roman Catholicism's tolerance of female priests look up "Roman Catholic Women Priests".
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#76
Ok, Please OPEN your spiritual ears and eyes..... Please read the bible VERSE that comes after what Paul said about Women not speaking in The Church,, Oh My, when will people stop taking scriptures out of it contexts??????
The Very Next Verse tells Us why women are not to speak in Church,,,, IT SAY, " If She Is to Be LEARNED, (not teach) LET HER ASK, (as in speak at home) Her Husband AT HOME,,,,, so in other words do not be rude, woman what ever you don't understand and you want to ask your husband wait untill you go home. as many know us women do not know how to wait, if we have somethignthing to say, lol, sorry sisters,,, we run our mouth anywhere. I am guilty of this myself, I would ask my anyone, what he say,,, did he say this or that, and ask anyone even if my husband is sitting next to me... I play with other people children, Lord forgive me.
And to the Assurping Athourity over the man, lol, this is a joke how they warpped this scripture. First; lets say if this is the way God wanted it from the begining, then he contridicted himself, When he made Deborah, A JUDGE, which the bible say,, ALL of Isreal came to her to be JUDGED, and she was a Prophetess, and a WARRIOR, YES SHE IS A WOMAN..... Now how can you Judge if you do not assurp athourity of a man and it said who her husband was... see God knew that this was going to happen so he made a complete example of what he did not mean.
Second, GOD IS TALKING ABOUT THE HUSBAND AND THE WIFE, NOt ALL MEN, He said, Wives submit to your OWN Husband, not Woman submit to men..... it did not say that MAN will have rule over you it said Adam, the Husband,,,, will be in a higher positions than you are in the home... so don't go tring to teach over what he has already tought, and don't be tring to assurp your athourity over his, so if he beat you to it, you have to submit to what he say how things are to be..... Example... If the HUSBAND,, tell his children not to go out, or they can't or can do something,,,, us Wives are not to change it, we are not to asuurp athourity over what The Husband, already did.
And for earily Church Women in ministry, there was,,,, The daughters of Phillip; Acts 21:9 ... Romans 16 speaks much of Women who labour for the Lord,,, as Paul refered to himself as a laborer of God, a workmen, a servent, so did he say many Women did also. but many want to turn a blind eye to the truth.
Remember We are to submit ourselves to our OWN HUSBANDS, and if you are not married, You Have only the Lord to submit to, outside of any athourity he set over us, as to them who are bosses in the work place, and Goverment officials, No where in the bible where it say that Woman are to Submit to all men, or not teach them, or help them, or be boss over them, this is a perfect example of what happens when scriptures are not kept in the context of what God said, many scripture standing by-themself- can mean what ever someone want them to,,,, but no matter what it can't take away what God intended it to say.... for no scriptures are open to interprtation~ only Holy Spirit Revelation...
And for those who read NIV, that's all you can come up with is interpretations, for it does not speak the truth~ therefore one have to be made up.... I have never know someone would have the heart to rip up the Word of God, as the version does... And God is reveling this to me for and more I will never touch it again.... God said just because it's easy does not make it right,,,, A leaven; leavens the whole Lump!!!
God bless those who seek the truth, and I pray he have mercy on those who reject it.
I think if you read 1 timothy 2 after the usurping authority of a man part is examined you will come the conclusion(if you are unbaised) that the scripture as is is supported by the context. All the qualitifications for the leadership positions are clearly directed towards man. Husband of one wife, etc.

And actually yes, it does talk about submitting yourself to men who aren't you husband. It says to submit yourselves to one another.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#77
I agree that God used unlearned people (disciples etc) and this is a demonstration of his power but i am referencing the well misused corinthians scripture about women and explaining that side of it. I also agree that males should take the lead as spiritual head of the household and church in submission first to the ultimaate head Jesus Christ.....though not in my circumstance where i have been with my partner 14 years and I received Christ 5 yrs ago whilst he has not). In saying that I would love him too (obviously) and then I would love him to rise up and be the spiritual head but only when he is learned in these things (which I would also love him to be and in the meantime i would teach him). Jesus is the head of the church, also agreed, then men are meant to be and the women in submission to the husband (providing the husband is to treat and love his wife as Jesus loves the church). However God as you said will use anyone humble and willing to be used and Im not lying dormant when Im ready to be used of God and if that means me speaking and teaching in areas of the church rather than my non christian partner then obviously it would be me God would and could use. I agree that the bible is the unfallible word of God and that he has made very obvious guidlines that we should not and cannot change because of changing times......however the corinthians scripture is misused and if you study it more fully you would see why. I never said all women were unlearned then just that in the church of Corinth this was their issue and that was why Paul addressed it.

I like what you said about this humbling part and that it is viewed by some as degrading. I really in my heart of hearts and because I wish that Gods will would be done that men and women would be in a biblical state and effective to each other for the witnessing of CHrist but like I said where men wont and women will God will use the willing Agreed! The one thing I can rest assured in in this area is that Gods will will be done and every knee will bow.....

I love this. i get bored studying the word at home by myself all the time (child in bed, partner on nightshift). thanks for chit chat :)
By some of your statements you kinda imply that if you aren't the pastor then you aren't being used by God in the church. Teachers will undergo the stricter judgement. There are lots of ways to be used in the church, none is higher or more worthy in God's sight than anothers. Each is to fill their own unique part. While you might be able to walk on your hands, it is much more agreeable to walk on your feet. Also, if you will look at the passage in corinthans then you will notice that there is no qualifier made of the spouse meeting their obligations in order for the believer, ourselves, to meet ours.

I'm not sure how the passage in corithans is being misused, maybe you could explain what you mean but it is not the only passage in scripture which talks about this subject. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a husband who can lead you spiritually, I know it can be discouraging to not have a person with you to lean on spiritually through the everyday walk we face. That being said, it can be a blessing because it can force us to our knees and lean upon the One who does not faint nor waver. :)
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#78
By some of your statements you kinda imply that if you aren't the pastor then you aren't being used by God in the church. Teachers will undergo the stricter judgement. There are lots of ways to be used in the church, none is higher or more worthy in God's sight than anothers. Each is to fill their own unique part. While you might be able to walk on your hands, it is much more agreeable to walk on your feet. Also, if you will look at the passage in corinthans then you will notice that there is no qualifier made of the spouse meeting their obligations in order for the believer, ourselves, to meet ours.

I'm not sure how the passage in corithans is being misused, maybe you could explain what you mean but it is not the only passage in scripture which talks about this subject. I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a husband who can lead you spiritually, I know it can be discouraging to not have a person with you to lean on spiritually through the everyday walk we face. That being said, it can be a blessing because it can force us to our knees and lean upon the One who does not faint nor waver. :)
I'm sorry can u let me know where you thought I was maybe implying that if you aren't a Pastor then you cant be used of God in the church. Im sorry if that s how that came across because I cannot and do not agree with this. I agree with what you say about no position being more or less worthy in Gods sight. What i was trying to say about women taking their 'rightful' place in the relationship is that it is dependent on the man taking his, but agreed not on us doing what we are called to do outside of thew relationship. Which means sometimes (especially for me) I can only submit to my partner if it is not contradictory to the word of God. Which happens often because my man doesnt know God so I must usurp his authority for this purpose and yes I have been driven to my knees repeatedly.(not so much talking about church now i know)
When I was talking about corinthians being misused it was to other posts made.
Timothy is different story and I will study that letter tonight and get back to you on how i find it...

Study is great and Im learning much on here....remain teachable and able to be corrected...this is my cry of heart of late.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#79
However God as you said will use anyone humble and willing to be used and Im not lying dormant when Im ready to be used of God and if that means me speaking and teaching in areas of the church rather than my non christian partner then obviously it would be me God would and could use.
Hey Redeemed, this is what I was talking about. I don't think you meant to imply that but it was kinda inferred.
 
R

Redeemed79

Guest
#80
Oh yip ok...no i didnt mean it like that....my bad.Thanks for pointing out though in case someone else comes on and sees it that way :)