Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
#61
Butch5 said:
It's amazing how many disregard the words of Christ
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yes it is. And it is amazing how 2000 years after Jesus mocked the legalism of the pharisees, we still have legalists today rejecting the grace of God and still trying to save themselves by their own works of righteousness. When Paul makes it clear it is not our works of righteousness which saved us, but gods mercy.

if you are doing something to get saved, your not saved by mercy, your saved by works. You have earned it
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
#62
elf3 said:
OK big question for everyone... My grandfather finally gave his life to Christ only a couple days before he died. He was bed ridden at the time so he didn't get baptized....the question I have is this...was he saved or not?

This is a simple "yes" or "no" question. For the legalists saying we MUST be baptized to be saved it would be a resounding "no". So....
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my sister in law had a medical condition which prevented her from being immersed in water, Guess she is in hell now too.
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#63
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#63
eternally-gratefull said:
yes it is. And it is amazing how 2000 years after Jesus mocked the legalism of the pharisees, we still have legalists today rejecting the grace of God and still trying to save themselves by their own works of righteousness. When Paul makes it clear it is not our works of righteousness which saved us, but gods mercy.

if you are doing something to get saved, your not saved by mercy, your saved by works. You have earned it
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I know people should listen to the words of Messiah:


Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
 
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elf3

Guest
#64
#64
Butch5 said:
It's not a simple question. And, no one can answer it but God. It's up to God t accept one's repentance.
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According to "legalist" thinking it is simple unless in this situation you change the "rules". According to legalistic "you must be baptized to be saved" thinking then he wasn't saved.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#65
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#65
Butch5 said:
It's amazing how many disregard the words of Christ
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Disregard or simply do not understand? I see a few who claim to be know but clearly do not and many more who really have never been taught the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#66
#66
Hizikyah said:
I know people should listen to the words of Messiah:


Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
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I agree with everything said here.

So why is it do legalists not see this, and think they can be righteous, when the law still condemns them as sinners? and guilty of braking the law, and justly condemned because of that fact?

why do they instead think like the pharisees they are ok. because they have their own version of the law?

Those born of God do do his commands, Not perfectly, but they do obey.. Where it not for the grace and mercy of God, they would still be condemned by the law
 
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#67
#67
..... for clarification/ example: (yahushua and the ekklesia NEVER purposefully hurt or killed someone - "be harmless as doves" is written... how many doves have been red barons?)

yet, if you confess with your moouth allegiance to the usa, and believe in your heart they are right (they're not, but what if),
and in so doing enlist in the military, (as a LOT of people have done (for a paycheck usually)),
then do you go through basic boot camp training or just go sit on the beach ?

i.e. whoever seeks the Creator of All LIfe, to be saved from the pernicious world as well as the deadly sinfulness of the flesh and the deeds there-of, and to be freed forever from the power of hasatan,
then, there-fore,
forthwith, as soon as they are able, according to every testimony in line with and in Scripture as the authority(and not man),
then
what will a (true) (yes, true; i.e. not half-harted, nor half-hearted either!) what will a true disciple/ follower/ believer trusting and relying on Yahushua (Jesus) then do ?

hint: the answer is in the bible several times, without contradiction and without paradox.... (p.s. not too often read directly, even by church-goers, and even less often understood (as only the pure in heart can understand, as it is written(i think)).....

footnote(for future import): the world's largest pagan group fights against Yahweh and won't even let His Name be printed (in their bibles) nor spoken in their buildings at all, including not during Bible reading, teaching of anything, or worship of their doings.


Mitspa said:
Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart... :)
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Mitspa said:
ever hear of the "Baptist" Church? they kind of specialize in this area....I would say that I cant think of a Christian I know that's has not been baptized?
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elf3

Guest
#68
#68
Butch5 said:
It's not a simple question. And, no one can answer it but God. It's up to God t accept one's repentance.
Click to expand...
elf3 said:
OK big question for everyone... My grandfather finally gave his life to Christ only a couple days before he died. He was bed ridden at the time so he didn't get baptized....the question I have is this...was he saved or not?

This is a simple "yes" or "no" question. For the legalists saying we MUST be baptized to be saved it would be a resounding "no". So....
Click to expand...
This is the perfect legalist answer when posed with a question like this. All the sudden it's not a "simple" question because you somehow have to allow for this type of situation. So with this type of answer then obviously ...no baptism is not necessary for salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
#69
elf3 said:
This is the perfect legalist answer when posed with a question like this. All the sudden it's not a "simple" question because you somehow have to allow for this type of situation. So with this type of answer then obviously ...no baptism is not necessary for salvation.
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amen,, Your grandfather could in no war "know he has eternal life" 1 john 5: 13) if he had no way to know. as butch exclaimed by his answer
 
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elf3

Guest
#70
#70
Butch5 said:
It's not a simple question. And, no one can answer it but God. It's up to God t accept one's repentance.
Click to expand...
elf3 said:
OK big question for everyone... My grandfather finally gave his life to Christ only a couple days before he died. He was bed ridden at the time so he didn't get baptized....the question I have is this...was he saved or not?

This is a simple "yes" or "no" question. For the legalists saying we MUST be baptized to be saved it would be a resounding "no". So....
Click to expand...
My above statement (in my last post) would also be true for faith+works salvation thinking. Legalistic thinking cannot allow for this type of situation.
 
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elf3

Guest
#71
#71
When we start adding things to the "finished" work of Christ we also have to take away the word "finished".
 
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AtonedFor

Guest
#72
#72
elf3 said:
My grandfather finally gave his life to Christ only a couple days before he died.
He was bed ridden at the time so he didn't get baptized....the question I have is this
...was he saved or not?
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Absolutely, YES! ... Praise the Lord.
Comfort thyself with the parable of the vineyard workers.
 
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seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#74
Dec 9, 2011
13,741
1,728
113
#74
Butch5 said:
Those who say that baptism isn't necessary, could you please provide Scripture showing that it isn't?
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John 3:16
king james version(kjv)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I see believe but i didn't see believe + baptize in that scripture.Why do you think that is?

Before you fire back remember that scripture should harmonize.

GOD inspired man to write it.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#75
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#75
eternally-gratefull said:
yes it is. And it is amazing how 2000 years after Jesus mocked the legalism of the pharisees, we still have legalists today rejecting the grace of God and still trying to save themselves by their own works of righteousness. When Paul makes it clear it is not our works of righteousness which saved us, but gods mercy.

if you are doing something to get saved, your not saved by mercy, your saved by works. You have earned it
Click to expand...
You still haven't posted anything from Scripture showing that baptism isn't necessary. You have Paul's words out of context and I guess you saved yourself because you have faith, correct?
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#76
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#76
seed_time_harvest said:
John 3:16
king james version(kjv)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I see believe but i didn't see believe + baptize in that scripture.Why do you think that is?

Before you fire back remember that scripture should harmonize.

GOD inspired man to write it.
Click to expand...
This passage says nothing about baptism, how does it show that baptism isn't necessary? That's right, Scripture should harmonize. John 3:16 is not the only passage on the subject. Using that passage alone is an argument from Silence. There are passages that don't mention faith, would argue that it isn't necessary?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
Butch5 said:
You still haven't posted anything from Scripture showing that baptism isn't necessary. You have Paul's words out of context and I guess you saved yourself because you have faith, correct?
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I have not? it has been posted all over..

John 3: 16, Whoever believe in him HAS eternal life. No baptism
Romans 10, Call out on the name of the lord, and you will be saved, no baptism.
Acts 16: 31. Believe in the name of Jesus, and you will be saved, no mention of baptism
romans 3. Justified by faith No mention of baptism
Eph 1 and 2, Hearing the word, and trusting the word, Saved by grace, not works. no mention of baptism
rom 5. Justified by faith. no mention of baptism
John 3. He who believes not condemned he who rejects (not believe) condemned already, no mention of baptism.

How many passages would you like me to post?
 
E

elf3

Guest
#78
#78
Butch5 said:
You still haven't posted anything from Scripture showing that baptism isn't necessary. You have Paul's words out of context and I guess you saved yourself because you have faith, correct?
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You still haven't answered my question.

According to your thinking was he saved or not?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#79
#79
Butch5 said:
This passage says nothing about baptism, how does it show that baptism isn't necessary? That's right, Scripture should harmonize. John 3:16 is not the only passage on the subject. Using that passage alone is an argument from Silence. There are passages that don't mention faith, would argue that it isn't necessary?
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So Jesus told some people just believe, and let them on their way thinking they are saved because they had faith. And others they had to be baptized.. How many people went to their deaths thinking they were saved, but were not because baptism was not part of the gospel message they heard, they heard what Jesus said, \

did jesus teach two gospels?

you have to remember, You have a completed word today, they did not back then, they only had bits and peaces, until all the gospels and nt was completed. If baptism was required. God would surely tell everyone that every time he spoke would he not why would he leave some hanging? and leave out a very important part of the gospel?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#80
#80
Poor ole Paul just didn't understand? :(

1Co 1:14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel

 
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