Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

jeff_peacemkr

Guest
#81
#81
Scripture (Torah) "should!?" "harmonize" ??

trust who?

Trust Yahweh! , do not trust mankind/society/scholars. then, SHALOM ! not just harmony, but UNION of EKKLESIA in YAHUSHUA. UNION with YHVH (G-D). today. right now. not by and by.

yes. men messed everything up. but YHVH is PERFECT and knows what HE IS DOING. TRUST YHVH in Yahushua forever.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#82
#82
Jh. 3:16 says, "should not perish, but SHOULD have eternal life." So, some believers PERISH. Love to all Hoffco
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#83
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#83
elf3 said:
My above statement (in my last post) would also be true for faith+works salvation thinking. Legalistic thinking cannot allow for this type of situation.
Click to expand...
What is legalistic? It's not me who is being legalistic. It seems you have a formula by which you believe God must act. I on the other hand simply relay what God has said. We have these words recorded in Mark.

KJV Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mar 16:16 KJV)

There is absolutely no grammatical way to put saved before baptized. Believe and baptize precede saved. Many Christians try to make it say He who believes and is saved shall be baptized, but that's not what it says.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#84
#84
The truth of salvation does not end at Mark 16...in fact its Pauls gospel that we must preach and believe and by which all men shall be judged and he puts baptism into its proper perspective of the gospel as a whole.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#85
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#85
eternally-gratefull said:
So Jesus told some people just believe, and let them on their way thinking they are saved because they had faith. And others they had to be baptized.. How many people went to their deaths thinking they were saved, but were not because baptism was not part of the gospel message they heard, they heard what Jesus said, \

did jesus teach two gospels?

you have to remember, You have a completed word today, they did not back then, they only had bits and peaces, until all the gospels and nt was completed. If baptism was required. God would surely tell everyone that every time he spoke would he not why would he leave some hanging? and leave out a very important part of the gospel?
Click to expand...

You don't know everything that was said, you only know what was recorded. The Bible doesn't tell us every time someone went to the bathroom, do we assume since its not recorded that they didn't go? We have what the writers chose to tell us. The Scriptures say that Jesus baptized more than John, actually, it was His disciples.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#86
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#86
Mitspa said:
The truth of salvation does not end at Mark 16...in fact its Pauls gospel that we must preach and believe and by which all men shall be judged and he puts baptism into its proper perspective of the gospel as a whole.
Click to expand...
Paul taught what Jesus, unless you have different religion. Just because Paul wasn't sent to baptism doesn't effect it's necessity. Jesus Himself didn't baptize either, He needed to preach. Likewise, since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, he needed to preach.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#87
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#87
All of these arguments attempting to negate the necessity of baptism are simply flawed logic.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#88
#88
elf3 said:
OK big question for everyone... My grandfather finally gave his life to Christ only a couple days before he died. He was bed ridden at the time so he didn't get baptized....the question I have is this...was he saved or not?

This is a simple "yes" or "no" question. For the legalists saying we MUST be baptized to be saved it would be a resounding "no". So....
Click to expand...
Ok let me explain it this way. For anyone who believes we MUST be baptized and/or DO good works in order to be saved cannot answer this question honestly according to that belief.

(These answers are assuming a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior)

If you say "no" then you have condemned every Christian who has died without baptism or doing good works.

If you say "yes" then you contradict your own belief
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#89
#89
eternally-gratefull said:
So Jesus told some people just believe, and let them on their way thinking they are saved because they had faith. And others they had to be baptized.. How many people went to their deaths thinking they were saved, but were not because baptism was not part of the gospel message they heard, they heard what Jesus said, \

did jesus teach two gospels?

you have to remember, You have a completed word today, they did not back then, they only had bits and peaces, until all the gospels and nt was completed. If baptism was required. God would surely tell everyone that every time he spoke would he not why would he leave some hanging? and leave out a very important part of the gospel?
Click to expand...

No Jesus did not tell some people they had to be baptized, and others they didn't.
He commanded everybody under the new covenant to be baptized ( Matthew 28, Mark 16 ). If somebody told people they don't have to be baptized that falls on the teacher of that congregation for eliminating the words of our Lord, not on Jesus for He clearly commanded baptism in the gospels.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#90
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#90
elf3 said:
You still haven't answered my question.

According to your thinking was he saved or not?
Click to expand...
Because it's a question that only God can answer. There are requirements for one to be saved, if one doesn't meet them all for whatever reason it is up to God to decide. He has given the requirements and has obligated Himself to saved those who meet those requirements. Can people be saved if they don't meet them? I believe they can if there are extenuating circumstances, however, that decision belongs to God.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#91
#91
Butch5 said:
Paul taught what Jesus, unless you have different religion. Just because Paul wasn't sent to baptism doesn't effect it's necessity. Jesus Himself didn't baptize either, He needed to preach. Likewise, since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, he needed to preach.
Click to expand...
The Scriptures are clear that the manifest truth of the gospel was given through Paul and Paul received it from the Lord Himself from heaven...I can post some scriptures if you like? We even see all the other Apostles yielded to Pauls revelation ..even that he rebuked Peter for not keeping the truth of the gospel. If Salvation was dependent upon baptism then Paul was in error...So one must read Mark in light of the whole counsel of the scriptures and especially Paul who explains the saving power of the gospel itself.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#92
#92
Butch5 said:
Because it's a question that only God can answer. There are requirements for one to be saved, if one doesn't meet them all for whatever reason it is up to God to decide. He has given the requirements and has obligated Himself to saved those who meet those requirements. Can people be saved if they don't meet them? I believe they can if there are extenuating circumstances, however, that decision belongs to God.
Click to expand...
Then why are you making baptism a necessity if it's God who makes the final decision? My grandfather died without being baptized and without doing any good works. He accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior but according to your baptism necessity he isn't saved.

Can you not see your "flawed" thinking?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#93
#93
elf3 said:
Ok let me explain it this way. For anyone who believes we MUST be baptized and/or DO good works in order to be saved cannot answer this question honestly according to that belief.

(These answers are assuming a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior)

If you say "no" then you have condemned every Christian who has died without baptism or doing good works.

If you say "yes" then you contradict your own belief
Click to expand...

Wrong, there is a answer for that question and it is not just a simple yes or no.
Those who live long enough to keep and do all the commands that He said we are to do, then we are to do them or we deny the Lord but not showing our love for Him to do as He said.
Those who are on their death bed, if they take and devote themselves to Christ asking forgiveness of their sins and then die then they will have salvation for the Lord see's their heart to be true or not in that final confession.

This taking and the Lord having mercy on who He will have mercy on by forgiving them on their death bed when they ask is for Him to decide. This however does not give us the right to disobey Him, and say well if they can be saved without it on their death bed we can disobey the Lord's command to be baptized to.
 
B

Butch5

Banned
#94
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
#94
elf3 said:
Ok let me explain it this way. For anyone who believes we MUST be baptized and/or DO good works in order to be saved cannot answer this question honestly according to that belief.

(These answers are assuming a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior)

If you say "no" then you have condemned every Christian who has died without baptism or doing good works.

If you say "yes" then you contradict your own belief
Click to expand...
Salvation isn't a mathematical formula as some try to make it. It is a decision made by God based on certain criteria which He sets. The problem is that some take a verse or two and create a theology by which they try to force God to act. If Christians stopped taking passages of Scripture from their context and looked at it as a whole things would be much clearer.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#95
#95
Butch5 said:
All of these arguments attempting to negate the necessity of baptism are simply flawed logic.
Click to expand...
all the arguments trying to impose a physical act required for salvation is simply flawed
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#96
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#96
Mitspa said:
Poor ole Paul just didn't understand? :(

1Co 1:14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel
Click to expand...

But Paul did baptize others, 1 Cor 1:14,15.
He was commanded to be baptized himself to wash away his sins, Acts 22:16.
He taught the necessity of being baptized, Rom 6:3-6; Gal 3:27; Col 2:12-14; 1 Cor 1:12,13.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
#97
Butch5 said:
You don't know everything that was said, you only know what was recorded. The Bible doesn't tell us every time someone went to the bathroom, do we assume since its not recorded that they didn't go? We have what the writers chose to tell us. The Scriptures say that Jesus baptized more than John, actually, it was His disciples.
Click to expand...
wow. now here is a logical answer to explain ones position.. God did not leave us know everything that was said in a conversation, but left important facts out causing mass confusion.

Sorry bro. I think God gave us every word we needed to know. he did not leave anything out and cause confusion.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#98
#98
hi, gents. :)

just popped in to say Christians should avail themselves of the blessing of baptism.
and if for some reason you physically cannot...
you're still saved! God did it...He won't 'undo' it.

God does all the saving.
the only thing we bring to our salvation is the sin that makes it necessary.

carry on. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#99
#99
Butch5 said:
Paul taught what Jesus, unless you have different religion. Just because Paul wasn't sent to baptism doesn't effect it's necessity. Jesus Himself didn't baptize either, He needed to preach. Likewise, since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, he needed to preach.
Click to expand...
well of course Jesus did not baptist in water, John the baptist said that was not why he was sent, he was sent to baptist with the Holy Spirit. He baptized me with the HS as promised, has be baptized you?

As for paul He was sent to give the gospel. you have paul preaching and having people come to him, yet walking away without finishing the job (if baptism was not essential)

Why do you want to replece the work of God with the work of men? Can I ask you this without you being upset? it is a logical and sincere question.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#100
#100
kennethcadwell said:
No Jesus did not tell some people they had to be baptized, and others they didn't.
He commanded everybody under the new covenant to be baptized ( Matthew 28, Mark 16 ). If somebody told people they don't have to be baptized that falls on the teacher of that congregation for eliminating the words of our Lord, not on Jesus for He clearly commanded baptism in the gospels.
Click to expand...
um matt 28 and mark 16 was at the very end of his mission here on earth.

He told many people things during his whole ministry before he gave those commands, who could have died before they heard these commands, did they go to hell because they took jesus at his word. And did not get baptised for salvation?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.