Does God Foreknow People, or Events, or Both? Which does Romans 8:28-30 refer to?

[Johnny_B]

Johnny B,

Ephesians 2:1-10 reveals that Salvation is a free gift offered to all men even when we were dead in our trespasses and sins. When Paul says that it is a free gift, it implies that it is not something you have to work for, but it is freely offered to all men WHO receive it through the confession of Jesus Christ as you alluded to in John 3:3 or better put, being born again.

Salvation is a gift God through Jesus offered to the entire world. John 3: 16 reveals that. For God so loved the World he gave his only begotten son. That WHOSOEVER believes on him, means anyone of any color, race, nation or creed can get in on or receive.

It is safe to say that not all men will receive and confess, but John 3:17 and on tells us why. Men love darkness and so reject this free Gift.

Would you clarify what you mean by foreknowledge being someones future faith, I am not understanding what you are getting at?

Grace and peace to you

I didn't say that peacefulbeliever did, that would be a work or a reason for God to be partial toward a person. I agree with what you've said that every type of person. At the same time whosoever is defined in John 1:12-13 "But to all who (whosoever) did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

Another thing about 3:18 of John "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." This deals with the idea that people try to accuse God of, in His electing grace. That if He elects those for salvation, that automatically means He also elects those for eternal judgement. Verse 18 shows that this is not true, because they are condemned or judged already, they are guilty under the Law of God. The salvation of all men does not have eternal judgement with it, so God doesn't chose those for eternal judgement, why? Because they are condemned or judged already and it's not because they didn't chose Jesus, it's because they love darkness rather than light, verse 19-20.

John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Also notice, "the world might be saved", this lines up with I Timothy 2:4 and I Peter 3:9 (I need to thank peaceful believer for this, I came to understand this through talking her on this thread, thank you PB), it doesn't mean that all men will be saved here or that God wills that they be saved. I Timothy 2:4 & II Peter 3:9 says that God, wishes, wants, would, in 2:4, that He is not wanting, not desiring, not willing 3:9, here John 3:17 might be saved.

John 3:19-20 "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light. lest their works should be exposed." As stated above.

Here's where it wined's up in verse 21 "But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” Carried out by God or John 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

They come to believe in the truth as a testimony that God gave them the power to become a child of His.

 

[Rockrz]

Does God Foreknow People, or Events, or Both?

Uh, yeah... like, God knows ALL... He is ALL POWERFUL and knows all...

 

[Johnny_B]

Yep, we are born again to a living hope because Jesus Christ rose from the dead according to his abundant mercy - he has begotten us again through "faith" in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead . . . goes right along with Romans 10 . . . Confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead and you shall be saved; i.e. born again of the Spirit - that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

Nope, I never thought that you were saying I was not born again.

PB first of all I want to thank you for helping me understand I Timothy 2:4 and II Peter 3:9, on how God desires all men to be saved or as John puts it in John3:17 "might be saved" again thanks, your discussing this with me has not been in vain.

We don't disagree on us placing our faith in Christ, we have a responsibility to respond to the Gospel message in faith/belief/repentance to be saved that we may see our redemption, our glorified bodies or as we agreed to be conformed to the image of His Son.

Where were not agreeing is that we need to be made alive before we can respond in faith/believe/repent. That's where being born of water and the Spirit come into play, it's what allows us to have faith and see the need for the kingdom so that we can enter the kingdom by the water and the Spirit to birth our faith, but do not marvel that you must be born again. God quickens us by the new birth of the Spirit, we receive/believe/repent/have faith in the Gospel of God to enter what God by His Spirit has caused us to see, His kingdom. Since it all is monergistic so we say that we are born again first to see the kingdom, then by our faith will we respond to God's message of hope. It's another paradox of Christianity, like the God/man, I could try to make some analogies but they would be futile. It's monergistic when it happens, but synergistic in it's completion. Monergistic in that we are saved (initially) by God's grace making us born again, we are saved (fully) by/throught faith, which is, we cooperate and respond to God's message, this should gave us a better understanding of what I'm trying to say.

Ephesians 1:11-14 "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

Before this He calls us. Romans 1:6-7 "including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:"
I Corinthians 1:9 "God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord."

II Timothy 1:9 "who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,"

Why does He have to call us, I Corinthians 2:14 "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

How to we understand or see the kingdom, by be born again, which Peter explains the fun salvation of our souls. I Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

God causes us to be born again, to the living hope or blessed hope, which is our inheritance, to be revealed at the regeneration of creation. God guards us by His power, through our faith for a salvation to be revealed, our glorified bodies."

 

[Johnny_B]

Here's another Scripture PB. II Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This Scripture actually explains what I'm trying to say, God chose us for salvation, to be sanctified by the Spirit and belief in the truth, He called us by the Gospel, for what to obtain the glory of our Lord or His resurrection body, our inheritance.

 

[Johnny_B]

I found another one I Thessalonians 1:3-5 "We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, 3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. 5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake."