Does God kill christians in judgement?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#41
Perhaps this article will help those that are sincerely seeking about communion. Communion is about "remembering Him" - not sins. He died for sins so that we can live with Him.

Taking Communion in an Unworthy Manner

I remember as a 10 year old boy watching in terror as the communion plate came closer and closer. Why was I afraid? Because there was unresolved sin in my life – I had argued with my sister before church! I knew that those who took communion in an unworthy manner risked condemnation, even death, for the Bible told me so:
1Co 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
1Co 11:27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.
1Co 11:32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Thankfully, I was wrong.

This passage above must be one of the most abused and misunderstood passages in the entire Bible. It is regularly used to deny communion to those who need and it is frightening to 10 year olds. As we will see, it is one of the most liberating scriptures in the Bible, yet many believers are condemned by it.

Doesn’t this seem a bit odd to you? Afterall, this passage was written by the same apostle who said, “there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.” So what’s going on here? Did Paul have a change of heart? Is he now saying that God will condemn us if we partake of communion in an unworthy manner? No he is not.

For if we would judge (diakrino) ourselves, we should not be judged (krino). But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned (katakrino) with the world. (KJV)

If you click on the Greek words italicized above, you will see that diakrino and krino mean to distinguish and decide, while katakrino means to give judgment against or condemn.

In other words, the only time Paul refers to explicitly bad judgment (the condemning, punishing kind) in this passage, is when he is referring to those who condemn themselves through unbelief and not the Corinthian Christians. (More here.) Contrary to what you’ve heard, this is not about Christians examining themselves to see whether they’re worthy of communion and Paul never says we damn ourselves by taking it in an unworthy manner.


So what sort of judgments or decisions does Paul want us to make when taking communion? And what does it mean to proclaim the Lord’s death? To answer these questions we need to look at the two mighty deeds Jesus’ accomplished when He went to the cross. These two deeds are represented in communion by the bread and the cup.

The bread

At the Last Supper Jesus handed out the bread, said it was His body, and told the disciples to eat it in remembrance of Him (Lk 22:19). He didn’t say much else because no doubt they could all recall the fuss that happened the last time He said He was the bread of life:




“I am the bread of life… I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world… I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (Jn 6:48,51-54)

As a result of these words many disciples turned away from following Jesus (Jn 6:66). To them, the idea of eating His flesh and drinking His blood was repelling.

They did not grasp that Jesus was referring to His impending sacrifice – that He would give up His body in fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4-5 so that we might have life. But the lesson wasn’t lost on Peter for he later quoted Isaiah when he wrote, “by his wounds you have been healed” (1 Pe 2:24).

What does it mean to eat the flesh of Jesus? It means to behold Jesus and all that He has done for you, both at the whipping post and on the cross. In communion the bread represents His body which was broken so that you might have life and health. This is good news for the sick, but it will have no effect in your life unless you believe it. In the passage above, Paul is basically exhorting us to judge whether sickness or health is from God. Sadly, many believers are confused about these things. They think that God wants them sick so they can learn stuff.

They don’t recognize (diakrino) that Jesus gave His body so that we might be healed. By failing to honor His body and blood they take communion in a less than worthy manner. It’s like saying, “Jesus was wounded for nothing,” or “by His wounds I have not been healed.”

Sickness and death are part of the curse of sin (Ge 2:17). Jesus died to set us free from sin and all its effects, but we won’t be free unless we put our faith in His work. The good news profits nothing unless it is mixed with faith in them that hear it (He 4:2). The Corinthians were suffering unnecessarily because they were not recognizing or discerning the Lord’s body.

“This is why many among you are weak and sick and some have even died.” It wasn’t that God was judging them for getting drunk at communion. No, they were suffering the effects of sin because they did not properly value what Christ had done on their behalf at Calvary.

Because they were not judging themselves in light of the finished work of the cross (forgiven, accepted, blessed, healed), they were still experiencing the punishing effects of sin (rejection, sickness, condemnation).

Because they weren’t attributing to Christ the full worth of His sacrifice, they were still suffering – in the language of King James – the effects of damnation.

The cup

At the Last Supper Jesus took the cup and announced a new covenant based on His blood:

“This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Mt 26:28)

In fear of eating and drinking in an unworthy manner, many Christians treat communion as a time of somber reflection.

But proclaiming the Lord’s death should be an occasion of great joy and celebration! Was there ever a better reason to party than this? Think about it: We who were once defiled by sin have been washed white as snow (Is 1:18). Our guilty consciences have been cleansed and our forgiveness has been eternally secured by the precious blood of Jesus (He 10:22, 1 Pe 1:19). This is the good news in a cup!

I will provide a line-by-line paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 11:26-32 in my next post, but Paul’s message to the Corinthians can be summed up like this: Judge yourself in light of Christ’s perfect sacrifice. Because of His body and blood, you are forgiven and healed. Learn to discriminate what is from God (e.g., healing) and what is part of sin’s curse (e.g., sickness). Understand that anything that is not God’s will in heaven (there is no sickness in heaven) is not His will here on earth.

When you learn to distinguish what is from God and what is not you are chastened or disciplined (paideauo, literally, trained up or instructed) of the Lord and escape the adverse effects of sin that the rest of the world suffers.

Communion = good news for the sick and unworthy

Are you battling sickness, condemnation and guilt? Then prepare a communion table in the presence of these your enemies and proclaim the Lord’s death!

Don’t look at communion as merely a churchy-ritual; make it a bold declaration of faith! As you take the bread, behold the Lord’s body that was broken so yours could be whole. As you take the cup, discern the Lord’s blood that was shed one time for all your sins (He 10:12). Remind your enemies that they were thoroughly defeated at the cross (Co 2:15).

Because Jesus has triumphed we can reign in this life (Rms 5:17). There is no grief or sorrow He did not carry; there is no curse He did not redeem you from (Is 54:4).

Judge yourself as God judges you – perfectly righteous, eternally forgiven, and completely whole!

https://escapetoreality.org/2011/04/10/taking-communion-in-an-unworthy-manner/


 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#42
.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]NIV Translation[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Paul’s Paraphrase[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.[/TD]
[TD]For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death and triumphant victory over sin and all its effects until He comes.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:27 Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.[/TD]
[TD]Therefore, if you eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord without appreciating what Jesus accomplished, it’s like saying ‘Jesus died for nothing.’ You are not honoring the Lord’s body and blood.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup.[/TD]
[TD]So before you take communion, take a look at yourself. Are you sick? Are you battling guilt and condemnation? Are you giving place to things that Jesus carried in His body and paid for with His blood?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.[/TD]
[TD]Because if you eat and drink without understanding all that the Lord did in His body, you’re not going to be free. It’s like saying, “I’m still under judgment.” For instance, if you don’t believe that by His wounds you were healed, then you’re not going to be healed.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.[/TD]
[TD]This is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have died prematurely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.[/TD]
[TD]But if we judged ourselves in light of the finished work of the cross (forgiven, accepted, healed), then we would not suffer the punishing effects of sin (condemnation, rejection, sickness).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 11:32 When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.[/TD]
[TD]When we renew our minds and learn to discern what is from the Lord and what is not, we are trained up and no longer suffer sin’s effects. Unlike those who reject the grace of God revealed in Jesus, we can live free from sickness and condemnation.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
.
In my last post I looked at what it means to take communion in an unworthy manner and in another post I have looked at what it means to be judged by the Lord. Contrary to what you may have heard, this has nothing to do with examining yourself to see whether you are worthy or not. (Jesus died for unworthy people!) To take communion in a worthy manner is to honor the body and blood of Jesus that was sacrificed for your salvation.

A proper definition of salvation includes forgiveness, healing, deliverance, indeed, everything that is part of the abundant life that Jesus promised (Jn 10:10). Because of Jesus’ costly sacrifice, you have full rights to every spiritual blessing (Eph 1:3), along with healing (1 Pe 2:24), forgiveness (Eph 1:7), a guilt-free conscience (He 10:22), and unrestricted access to the throne of grace (He 4:16).

You will never take communion in a worthy manner until you appreciate and value His worthiness. If you are in the habit of asking Him for things that He has already provided (e.g., healing, forgiveness, provision), then you are not attributing to Christ the full worth of His sacrifice.

A big part of the communion-confusion stems from a misreading of Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians. As I have not found a good translation of 1 Corinthians 11:26-32, I have provided my own paraphrase above. (I looked at the meaning of the original Greek behind some of the words in my earlier post.) Take care when you quote me for I am not a Greek-speaker. I am sure I have missed some things.

But I daresay my rough paraphrase may be closer to Paul’s original meaning than many of the English translations we have today. Paul never wrote to condemn Christians. He wrote to free them from sin and all its effects. If you are not being set free when you read his writings, something is wrong.





 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#43
I find your statement ridiculous and actually kind of pathetic
Lauren - Why do things get so personal for you, really?

The op is two passages, Ananias and Paul on communion.

If you cannot answer these two, why are you sharing?
If you attack me, ofcourse I will say, I do not understand.
Maybe people never tell you your attacks hurt. I mean if they were empty without intent
then I would not feel them. But I forgive you. I do not understand at all your approach.

Are you my friend telling me things? If you are my friend then explain how Paul was wrong
to say some had died because they had eaten communion unworthily. That is the question.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#44
Listened to Andrew Farley. This is just a continual repetition of forgiven for sin
done once for all.
So ofcourse future sin is forgiven, so there can be no judgement
for bad behaviour like Ananias or eating communion without due respect.

It does not answer the question at all, it is just a distraction.

The enemy will always say, listen to your model of God not the word of God.

But you only know if you walk correctly in the Lord is through the word of God
in your heart.
PeterJens, here is the Word of God:

18 For Christ also suffered
once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. (from 1 Pet. 3)

9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin,
once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. (from Rom. 6)

24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared
once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (from Heb. 9)

27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins
once for all when he offered himself. (from Heb. 7)


You ignore those Scriptures and see judgement for sins in other Scriptures where there are in reality natural consequences for bad behavior.

It is YOU who is creating a god in your own image, and not relying on what Scripture has to say about God, His Good News, and what the Blood of Christ and life in Him accomplished on mankind's behalf.


-JGIG
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#45
The texts for this subject are

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
1 Cor 11:28-32
yes it would seem that Scripture tells us that God will allow some to die (fallen asleep describes the death of a Christian) rather than them being condemned with the world,

"Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?" ...... "When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died."
Sapphira lied - "At that moment she fell down at his feet and died."
Acts 5:3-10
were Ananias and Sapphira ever said to be saved Christians? The fact that they 'died', and did not 'fall asleep' is against it
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#46
Judged by the Lord (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)

Communion.jpg

Are you good enough to take communion? To me, this is an absurd question. It is exactly like asking whether you are good enough to hear the gospel. But to many it is not an absurd question. It is a serious question because a wrong answer could make you sick and kill you!

From whence comes this ridiculous notion? It comes from misunderstanding Paul’s instructions about communion (see 1 Cor. 11). If you’ve ever done communion in church, you may have heard that you need to examine yourself for sin and that if you don’t you could get sick and die. This is utter nonsense, as I explain elsewhere.

A reader wrote to me: “I am interested in the holy communion and healing. However, I noticed that all who teach on 1 Corinthians 11 never touch on verses 31-32 and these are the verses I struggle with the most.” She was referring to these verses:

But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world. (1 Cor 11:31-32)

(Sidebar: Before I got grace I found many verses in the Bible were tough and hard to understand. I didn’t even try to make sense of them, I just put them in the too hard basket. But now I deliberately seek out the hard scriptures because I have learned that they often hide a treasure. If you want to find the hidden treasures in scripture, but don’t know how, read this.)

What does it mean to judge ourselves?

For if we would judge ourselves… (1 Cor 11:31)

Paul is not prescribing worthiness tests for communion. He is saying “Jesus’ death is a big deal, so take a moment to reflect on it. If Christ’s death means something to you, then communion is a time to celebrate. But if the significance of his death is news to you, here’s your chance to process it. Here’s an opportunity to repent and believe the good news.”

For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. (1 Cor 11:31)

Everyone has their day of judgment. For the Christian, judgment day is in the past. The Christian has looked into the mirror of the law or listened to the accusations of his own conscience, judged himself wanting, and taken hold of the grace that Jesus provides. His judgment day is thus his salvation day, and since he has judged himself he will not be judged again.

A few verses earlier Paul says “everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup” (1 Cor 11:28). The word for examine means “to test and by implication approve.” Those in Christ see themselves approved by God; those without Christ may see themselves in need of his grace.




An old covenant picture may help.

At the temple the high priest examined the sacrificial lamb, not the one who brought it. In the new covenant, Christ is our Lamb without blemish or defect (1 Peter 1:19).

During communion we examine him and see ourselves as tested and approved in him.

But what about the person who has no lamb? What about the one who refuses God’s grace and stands on his own merits? For him a judgment day remains and if he continues to scorn grace his judgment will be one of self-inflicted condemnation.

Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world. (1 Cor 11:32)

The old order of sin and death has been condemned. It has no future. A new order of grace and forgiveness is springing up. Jesus stands astride the old and the new rescuing all who would abandon the sinking ship. Whoever takes his outreached hand is saved, but whoever refuses goes down with the ship (see John 3:18).

What does it mean to be judged by the Lord?

In a literal translation, v.32 speaks of “being judged by the Lord.” This is a reference to the witness of the Holy Spirit who will constantly seek to affirm that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus (John 16:10). In Christ, we are judged righteous and are thoroughly approved.

What about the Lord’s discipline?

When we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world (1 Cor. 11:32, NASB)

The word for disciplined in this verse should not make you think of punishment. It means training as in training up a child. To discipline is to disciple and we are discipled by the Lord. With that in mind, here is my paraphrase of the two verses:

When we receive the Lord’s good judgment – in him you are righteous! – and when we learn to discern what is from the Lord (grace and healing) and what is not (sickness and worry), we are trained up as sons and daughters. We no longer suffer the effects of sin and condemnation. (1 Cor 11:31-32, Paul’s paraphrase)

When we get ill we need to ask ourselves, “Is this sickness from the Lord?” When we come under pressure and stress, same thing. “Is this anxiety from the Lord?” Once we have renewed our minds and decided this bad thing is not from God, we are ready to proclaim the Lord’s death over our situation. “Christ died that I might enjoy an abundance of good health. Sickness, leave! Anxiety, take a hike!”

Taking communion when you’re sick is great way to exercise your faith. It’s saying, “I don’t identify with these symptoms. I identify with Jesus, who carried my infirmities and who was wounded so that I might be healed.”

Communion done in the name of dead religion will leave you sin-conscious and condemned. But communion done in the name of Jesus is one of the healthiest and most liberating things you’ll ever do!

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/02/19/1-corinthians-11v31-32/

 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#47
PeterJens, here is the Word of God:

You ignore those Scriptures and see judgement for sins in other Scriptures where there are in reality natural consequences for bad behavior.

It is YOU who is creating a god in your own image, and not relying on what Scripture has to say about God, His Good News, and what the Blood of Christ and life in Him accomplished on mankind's behalf.


-JGIG
JGIG - I am sorry that your answer to scripture or a situation is to say it is wrong
because it contradicts what you believe about another part of scripture.

Your view is all future sins are forgiven by the verses you quoted.
But Ananias and Paul are examples of the opposite.

Now I have said before we follow a different theology. But you cannot accept
that reality. It does not bother me, because after talking to most christians everyone
actually has fairly divergent views.

If you can accept I love Jesus and follow Him then amen.

If love works in your heart, and victory over sin is in your spirit, then amen.

But the anger here is so palpable. But friends this is not mine.
So easily you condemn fellow believers it makes me wonder at the spirit at
work in your lives. Do you not believe you can be possessed by a spirit and
still be following the Lord? Maybe this is your reality after all.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#48
Those Ellis articles on Ananias and Sapphira and Communion are excellent! I've read them before and they are spot on.

Thanks for posting them, Grace777x70!

-JGIG
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#49
There are a few good articles looking at communion through the lens of the finished work of Christ. We have a great salvation in Him and He is better then we can even imagine or think.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#50
JGIG - I am sorry that your answer to scripture or a situation is to say it is wrong
because it contradicts what you believe about another part of scripture.

Your view is all future sins are forgiven by the verses you quoted.
But Ananias and Paul are examples of the opposite.
Here is where you err, PeterJens. You set up YOUR INTERPRETATIONS of certain Scriptures as the Biblical standard, when your interpretations are opposite to the clear Truths of the Good News of the Work of Christ supported by gobs of other Scriptures.

In my theology, EVERYTHING must be filtered through the Work and High Priesthood of Christ.

In your theology, EVERYTHING must be filtered through the work of YOU.


Now I have said before we follow a different theology. But you cannot accept
that reality.
No, trust me, it is very evident that we believe differently. And I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is when you post misrepresentations of the God of the Bible Who offered Himself up to redeem a fallen world.



It does not bother me, because after talking to most christians everyone
actually has fairly divergent views.

If you can accept I love Jesus and follow Him then amen.

If love works in your heart, and victory over sin is in your spirit, then amen.

But the anger here is so palpable. But friends this is not mine.
So easily you condemn fellow believers it makes me wonder at the spirit at
work in your lives. Do you not believe you can be possessed by a spirit and
still be following the Lord? Maybe this is your reality after all.
Did you really just imply that I am demon-possessed because I dare to disagree with you, PeterJens?

Yes or no?

-JGIG
 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#52
My observation is this is a very long explanation as to what unworthy means as far
as communion goes.

Unworthy is something that denies the work of the cross while appearing to honour
it.

Grace777 demonstrates at age 10 he was terrified of judgement. That is super-sensitivity
to sin and justification.

The cross is salvation. Ofcourse judgement comes if the very thing that brings forgiveness
it is ok to trample on in doing a ceremony while lying to God.

Is nothing sacred to you people? Shame on you. And you call Jesus your Lord.
You have no clue about honour or respect even at the simplest level.

We are called to be holy, pure and blameless, but everything, literally is excused
away incase we upset God. Such unbelief and lack of knowledge of communion
with Christ condemns you already.

You just stand with your Lord, you best friend, to honour the most precious gift
He gave to you in your life, and you have fear? It is all so messed up.

The Lord is so much greater than this, and sin so much simpler. Those who deceive
and lie for whatever motives, are so convinced they would rather rubbish and slander
anyone who does not exactly agree with their views.

There is always hope for you if love burns in your heart, and purity and holiness is
your hearts desire, because that is Christs heart beat.

So rejoice brothers and sisters in our victorious Lord who led to the way through
the cross. And to those who would distort and change Gods words, His grace and
patience is very long, but judgement is coming.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#53
In your theology, EVERYTHING must be filtered through the work of YOU.
Thankyou for your generous analysis of my faith.
When I empathise with people I try and understand them. At this point I am flumuxed.

If I held this point of view you claim I would not be a follower of Christ.
But that is actually what you are saying, but that would be too strong, lol.

The problem is how we define faith in Christ and His work on the cross.
Jesus did not say believe in me, and your sins past, present and future are forgiven,
just you have eternal life.

Can you accept Jesus is probably happy with you as you are and me as I am.
Because theology and understanding have its limits, what matters is our hearts.

Unfortunately if you can disown me from Christ because I do not follow your
interpretations, I fear you do not understand the Lord and real spirituality.

God bless you sister. May His love touch you and make you whole, that streams
of living water flow from you heart. Because this is always such a blessing to all
we meet.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#54
,

Perhaps you missed this, PeterJens. I would like an answer to my question, please.



Originally Posted by PeterJens
But the anger here is so palpable. But friends this is not mine.
So easily you condemn fellow believers it makes me wonder at the spirit at
work in your lives.
Do you not believe you can be possessed by a spirit and
still be following the Lord? Maybe this is your reality after all.

Did you really just imply that I am demon-possessed because I dare to disagree with you, PeterJens?

Yes or no?

-JGIG


 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#55
No, trust me, it is very evident that we believe differently. And I can accept that.
What I cannot accept is when you post misrepresentations of the God of the Bible Who offered Himself up to redeem a fallen world.

Did you really just imply that I am demon-possessed because I dare to disagree with you, PeterJens?

Yes or no?

-JGIG
This shows how much you hate certain points of view.
"I cannot accept" - you want censorship. I am allowed to believe what I believe but
not share it. Sounds 100% what muslims want against christians.

It struck me as funny how you "super spiritual" people admit evil spirits need to be
cast out of them while believers. It then made me think, how on earth can you decide
if God in you is so defeated who is really speaking to your spirit.

So JGIG, I have no clue why you hold to what you do, but in this kind of crazy world
I think this spiritual challenge is worthy of your group.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,742
6,326
113
#56
and answers like this, when a simple yes or no was asked for, is why no response should be given. this is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a random rants.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#57
.

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This shows how much you hate certain points of view.
"I cannot accept" - you want censorship. I am allowed to believe what I believe but
not share it. Sounds 100% what muslims want against christians.

It struck me as funny how you "super spiritual" people admit evil spirits need to be
cast out of them while believers. It then made me think, how on earth can you decide
if God in you is so defeated who is really speaking to your spirit.

So JGIG, I have no clue why you hold to what you do, but in this kind of crazy world
I think this spiritual challenge is worthy of your group.

Actually, I don't believe that evil spirits need to be cast out of believers. Greater is He Who is in me than he that is in the world. In Christ, I am now the temple of God - the curtain was torn in the most holy place because God's Spirit was not limited to a physical temple, but in Christ, His Spirit lives in me. And His temple is undefiled. He has purified and made me holy by His Blood. Read Hebrews. It's all in there :).

But back to this . . .


Perhaps you missed this, PeterJens. I would like an answer to my question, please.



Originally Posted by PeterJens
But the anger here is so palpable. But friends this is not mine.
So easily you condemn fellow believers it makes me wonder at the spirit at
work in your lives.
Do you not believe you can be possessed by a spirit and
still be following the Lord? Maybe this is your reality after all.


Did you really just imply that I am demon-possessed because I dare to disagree with you, PeterJens?

Yes or no?

-JGIG
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#58

Originally Posted by PeterJens
But the anger here is so palpable. But friends this is not mine.
So easily you condemn fellow believers it makes me wonder at the spirit at
work in your lives.
Do you not believe you can be possessed by a spirit and
still be following the Lord? Maybe this is your reality after all.


Did you really just imply that I am demon-possessed because I dare to disagree with you, PeterJens?

Yes or no?

-JGIG
JGIG - I welcome disagreement. I think again you have the whole thing the wrong way
round. You said my God is me. You said I made God in my image.

Why as a christian would you use words like this? They are so full of venom and condemnation.
I know you get angry. Does that not trouble you? What are you actually angry at?

Look at things from my point of view. I have 40 years in the church, know many different positions
and warmed by many insights and blessings from different people, yet you attack my very faith,
my whole foundation, personally.

So I am fishing sister. I am nothing unusual or anything deep or wakey. I just believe in Christ and
follow Him. Somehow he wants me to share and be a part of this situation, and blesses me whenever
I partake. So amen to the Lord.

Forgiving all future sin is completely out there. It is part of universalism, and the idea nothing has
consequences other than constrained by Gods corrective power. It is very fluffy and kind, except life
is brutal, hard and difficult. Now your group tones it down in part by saying the unsaved go to hell,
and judgement is only on believing or not believing in Christ.

So sin is off the agenda completely. Now to believers like me this is just heresy.

But call me what you want, respond how you feel led. Out of the heart the contributor types.
But that is my heart. Love is what matters, it is eternal, it is Christ, the Father and the Holy
Spirit but wrapped in holiness, purity, judgement and consequences.

But this is your dilemma. Peace has only come through denying responsibility and ownership
and walking in forgiveness without change. Because that is the only way your conscience and
guilt can be squashed. I feel sorry for you driven by this when Jesus loves you and has forgiven
already. In Christ we have freedom and victory, so Amen and Hallelujah
 
Dec 10, 2015
494
14
0
#59
It WAS God who removed Ananias and Sapphira. After all it was God who created them and God had every right to remove them from this Earth.

1 John 5:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

Lying to the Holy Spirit is a Sin that does lead to death.

Its God's right to punish them and it's God's right to remove them from this life.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#60
Lauren - Why do things get so personal for you, really?

The op is two passages, Ananias and Paul on communion.

If you cannot answer these two, why are you sharing?
If you attack me, ofcourse I will say, I do not understand.
Maybe people never tell you your attacks hurt. I mean if they were empty without intent
then I would not feel them. But I forgive you. I do not understand at all your approach.

Are you my friend telling me things? If you are my friend then explain how Paul was wrong
to say some had died because they had eaten communion unworthily. That is the question.

yeah yeah yeah

juxtapose your own insecurities onto others

got it

many here have tried to be your friend...it's like hugging poison ivy...:p