Done Away?

[OneFaith]

Just because the old law (Old Testament) is physically still here (not the least stroke of a pen) does not mean we are still under its authority. In the Old Testament they did God's law physically (which saved no one, only postponed their sins until the cross). And in the New Testament we do God's law spiritually- which is the real way, the old was only a shadow of the real way to come with Christ.

Jesus did not come to take away God's law, but to fulfill it. However, the physical way of doing it He nailed to the cross. Love (which is not physical but spiritual) fulfills all the laws of the prophets in a spiritual way instead of a physical way. Let me give you an example...

When the Israelites painted the blood of a perfect lamb on the entrances to their homes, and the death angel passed over them, this physical law obeyed will not save them on judgement day. Because only the spiritual blood of the Lamb of God can save ones soul. The blood of a physically perfect lamb only represented the real thing- which is Christ's blood painted on our hearts (spiritually of course).

A representation is not the real thing- like a globe is not the actual earth, and cannot produce life like the real earth with soil, air, and sunshine- which a globe does not have. In the same way, the old law was only a shadow, but the reality is found in Christ. Anyone who wants to go back to the old, and physically paint lambs blood on their doors for example, disrespects Christ Who was tortured and died to nail that way to the cross. And anyone who wishes to obey both laws not only is saying that Christ blood is not good enough, according to Romans 7:1-4 they are commuting spiritual adultery by following both Moses and Christ. Moses just led us to Christ, he is not in competition with Him.

The old law is still in writing so we can learn by comparing the physical things to spiritual things- just like Christ did in His parables, is what God is doing with the old and new testaments. But He says we are to rightly divide the word- what is in the Old Testament stays in the Old Testament. You cannot bring Old Testament laws into the New Testament. The bible says if you follow a law you must follow all of that law. Where are you going to find a 2,000 year old high priest to sacrifice on behalf of your sins?

 

[Hizikyah]

There was a covenant promised you know that HE would give us a NEW HEART and a NEW SPIRIT...

That covenant is in effect...but not all have been affected by that Covenant...therefore not all will listen to HIS VOICE/HIS SPIRIT...

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law (Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

 

[miknik5]

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law (Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

And sir, Deuteronomy 18 is sufficient to trust all to the ONE who came speaking all that GOD commanded HIM for it is written that any who does not listen to HIM, GOD would require it

 

[Hizikyah]

Jesus did not come to take away God's law, but to fulfill it. However, the physical way of doing it He nailed to the cross. Love (which is not physical but spiritual) fulfills all the laws of the prophets in a spiritual way instead of a physical way. Let me give you an example...

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

 

[miknik5]

Remember the reason why?

because the people did not want to hear the voice of GOD and told Moses "do not let us again hear the VOICE of GOD lest we perish but you speak and we will listen to you

and GOD said they have said well what they have said

Correct?

So what did CHRIST day that was outside of or above or over GOD's VOICE and SPIRIT?

 

[miknik5]

Do all hear THE VOICE of THE SON OF GOD and believe in HIM (whom THE FATHER sent)?

For in truth he who believes in THE SON OF GOD believes in THE ONE who sent HIM

 

[Hizikyah]

Remember the reason why?

because the people did not want to hear the voice of GOD and told Moses "do not let us again hear the VOICE of GOD lest we perish but you speak and we will listen to you

and GOD said they have said well what they have said

Correct?

So what did CHRIST day that was outside of or above or over GOD's VOICE and SPIRIT?

John (Yahchanan) 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

 

[miknik5]

John (Yahchanan) 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

You will find the doctrine (will) of GOD IN John 6

 

[miknik5]

For it is the will of GOD that all who see THE SON and believe in HIM have LIFE. And HE will raise them up on the last day

 

[miknik5]

A time is coming when I will no longer speak in proverbs but will show you plainly of THE FATHER....
no one knows THE FATHER but the SON and those to whom HE chooses to reveal HIM
He who has THE SON has THE FATHER also

 

[OneFaith]

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

If you read what I said you can see that I agree that the old law (Old Testament) will remain in writing until judgement day. But we no longer do God's law physically like we did under Moses, we do it spiritually under Christ. The physical way He nailed to the cross. But God's law still remains and is fulfilled spiritually.

 

[miknik5]

If you read my what I said you can see that I agree that the old law (Old Testament) will remain in writing until judgement day. But we no longer do God's law physically like we did under Moses, we do it spiritually under Christ. The physical way He nailed to the cross. But God's law still remains and is fulfilled spiritually.

I read your post and I agree

fulfilles spiritually by those who follow the deeds and dictates of HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT which HE has caused to live in us

 

[Ahwatukee]

Morning Hizikyah,

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Do you think that the verse above is stating that believers are keeping the smallest of letters, every iota from the law? And if you do, then you would be wrong, because no one is even coming close to keeping the smallest jot and tittle of the law. Jesus is the One who kept the law perfectly and that on our behalf, fulfilling it completely and bringing it to its end, rescuing us from the curse of the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law will never pass away.

It will continue to do what it was intended to do (lead people to Christ, give them no excuse, For all have sinned and fall short)


what it will never do is teach a man of God how to be humble, How to love, How to be righteous.. This takes studying the life of Christ, Our example.. Who said himself. the law of love, Do this, you will fulfill the law and prophets..

 

[Hizikyah]

For it is the will of GOD that all who see THE SON and believe in HIM have LIFE. And HE will raise them up on the last day

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it."

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

YHWH said through Moses that Yah will send a prophet we must hear and obey.

John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

The Messiah said the same.

John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd."

All I am saying is we must hear and obey the Messiah.

 

[Hizikyah]

If you read what I said you can see that I agree that the old law (Old Testament) will remain in writing until judgement day. But we no longer do God's law physically like we did under Moses, we do it spiritually under Christ. The physical way He nailed to the cross. But God's law still remains and is fulfilled spiritually.

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Out with the Levitical priesthood, in with the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek (Yahshua the High Priest). Do not steal, do not lie, do not swaear falsely, do not hate your brother in your heart, etc. still apply.

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hizikyah]

Morning Hizikyah,

Do you think that the verse above is stating that believers are keeping the smallest of letters, every iota from the law? And if you do, then you would be wrong, because no one is even coming close to keeping the smallest jot and tittle of the law. Jesus is the One who kept the law perfectly and that on our behalf, fulfilling it completely and bringing it to its end, rescuing us from the curse of the law.

[/FONT]

Good morning Ahwatukee. I believe, as the Scripture quoted below shows that all of the Laws of YHWH are still in place. The Priesthood is now after the order of Melchizedek, and Yahshua is the High Priest. So ALL LAWS OF PRIESTHOOD ARE CARRIED OUT BY YAHSHUA. All other Laws apply to all followers of Messiah. No I do not believe there is a single man that has or will keep them perfectly, only the spotless Lamb, Yahshua has/will ever do that.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

What is sin?

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, " He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1785. entolé
entolé: an injunction, order, command
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all* the Law and the Prophets."

all* is word #G3650 - holos
Strong's Concordance
holos: whole, complete
Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: holos
Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os)
Short Definition: all, the whole, entire
Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)


1) all, whole, completely

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Out with the Levitical priesthood, in with the Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek (Yahshua the High Priest). Do not steal, do not lie, do not swaear falsely, do not hate your brother in your heart, etc. still apply.

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If these Scriptures are accepted, then I believe it is very clear.

 

[Hizikyah]

Morning Hizikyah,
Jesus is the One who kept the law perfectly and that on our behalf, fulfilling it completely and bringing it to its end, rescuing us from the curse of the law.

Blessing for obedience.

Eph 6:2 “Respect your father and mother,” which is the first command with promise,
Eph 6:3 in order that it might be well with you, and you might live long on the earth.”

and certianly you dont think, for example, that breaking the Most High's Laws concerning intercourse will not/can not bring curses? I think the world shows that disobedience to those can/will bring curses.

Just an example, there are more examples and more verses.


Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 14:12
New American Standard Bible
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Psalm 119:142-144, "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, because Your Law is the truth! Trouble and anguish have overtaken us, but Your Laws are our delights. The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting, giving us understanding, so we may live,"

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of YHWH are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of YHWH is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of YHWH are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of YHWH is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of YHWH are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

Proverbs 6:23, "For the commandments are a lamp, the Law is light, and reproofs of instruction are the way to life."

Psalm 1:2, "But his delight is in the Law of YHWH, and in His Law he meditates day and night."

 

[miknik5]

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it."

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

YHWH said through Moses that Yah will send a prophet we must hear and obey.

John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

The Messiah said the same.

John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd."

All I am saying is we must hear and obey the Messiah.

Yes I know

"because HE does not speak of HIS OWN initiative"

John 12

 

[prove-all]

Do all hear THE VOICE of THE SON OF GOD and believe in HIM (whom THE FATHER sent)?

For in truth he who believes in THE SON OF GOD believes in THE ONE who sent HIM

The Voice

GENESIS 26
[3]Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee,
and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH
WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father;

[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed
all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

[5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge,
MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Abraham was observing to keep Gods 10 commandments
He heard and obeyed Gods "voice".

DEUT. 27
[8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.

[9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed,
and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God .

[10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and
DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

The voice

DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:
ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
[13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM,
EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.


ZEPHANIAH 3
[1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
[2] SHE OBEYED NOT THE VOICE; she received not correction; she trusted not in the
LORD; she drew not near to her God. [3] Her princes within her are ROARING LIONS;
her judges are evening WOLVES; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
[4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary,
THEY HAVE DONE VIOLENCE TO THE LAW.

JOHN 10
[27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Also Gods sheep shall also hear His “voice”.

HEBREWS 4 [6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they
to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time;
as it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, harden not your hearts.

This was prophecied to happen.

DEUTERONOMY 4
[26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish
from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days
upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

[27] And THE LORD SHALL SCATTER YOU AMONG THE NATIONS, and ye shall
be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.

[28] And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone,
which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

[29] But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.


[30] When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee,
even in THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be OBEDIENT UNTO HIS VOICE;

[31] (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither
destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.