Don't Mix law & Grace

[Willie-T]

You keep saying and focusing on Jesus did not die to establish the new covenant, but all of Jesus teachings were for the new covenant.

He taught parables and gave teachings on how salvation works, and when He died on the cross that just official started the new covenant. Everything the Lord said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is very much valid for the believer to follow today.

And Jesus even shows that unless you can handle those teachings He gave in those 4 gospel books, you can not handle the rest of what He had to say that was given later by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.

I'm not sure what you're reading, but it is not what I am typing.

 

[KennethC]

It is interesting to see what we see of God's love for his children.... Just take our own human experience for an example - any parent worth their salt will show their displeasure and punish their children when needed (when they do wrong - do not follow their parents wishes).

Yes, It is very true that when you are a child of God, no matter what you do, God will not love you any less, because the love he has for you is not based on anything you do or have done - but on the work of his son. When he see's you he see's his son. However, When you dwell upon sin, and continue in sin you will bring upon yourself his displeasure and you grieve the Holy Spirit in you..

God will bring you back, he may punish you, you will still suffer the consequences of your sin..But God will still love you,

Just to put some balance on the subject!

Yes we must have balance on the subject for it is not an all is saved, or all is lost subject.

For many do get saved but others do fall away and remained lost, and this is clearly shown in the word of God.

Here is a list of verses that says what believers can still do;



*Things Children of God Can Do:


1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14

 

[Willie-T]

Nice try to turn this around and use OT scriptures speaking on when God repented !!!

Once again what I said is pull out all of the "NEW TESTAMENT" scriptures about repentance for us.
The biblical definition for repentance for us is a change of mind from our old sinful self to no longer walk in those ways !!!

You can try and twist and say something I didn't, but it won't work because you can not compare the way God repented in the OT to how we are told and what we are told to repent of in the NT.

Struggle all you want, but REPENT (which you just said I had a wrong understanding of) means to CHANGE ONE'S MIND. Nothing more, nothing less. It is NOT a Holy Spiritual ritual that gains us acceptance back into God's family.

What you are saying, in effect, is that if you sin, at that point you have decided to no longer be a follower of Christ's, and that you have to REPENT (change your mind) to again become a follower once more..... and then when you sin tomorrow, you changed your mind again, and have to go through the whole thing again.... and then, when you sin again on Monday, .... here we go again.

Well, all that time I have probably sinned just as much as you (maybe more, maybe less), but I have REMAINED a son of God, and my Daddy does not demand that I beg my way back into His good graces. All He ever wants to see is my heart saying, "I'm so sorry, Daddy.", and instantly, He embraces me.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Do you want to see how your heavenly Father responds when you have failed? Look at the parable of the prodigal son which Jesus shared:

Luke 15:11–24
11“A certain man had two sons. 12And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. 14But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything. 17“But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.’” 20“And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22“But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

We see a father who runs toward his prodigal son to embrace him the moment he sees him from a distance. Do you know that the father’s behavior is actually contrary to the law of Moses? I was studying this sometime back and I found that according to the law, if a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who refuses to heed his parents, that man is supposed to bring his son to the elders of the city, and all the men of his city are to stone his son to death, so that they can put away the evil from among them, and all Israel shall hear and fear. (Deut.21:18-21) That’s the law of Moses.

When Jesus shared the story of the prodigal son, all the Jewish people who heard Him would have been familiar with this law. However, instead of the condemnation and punishment that the rebellious son deserved under the law, Jesus revealed the Father’s heart of grace and forgiveness in the new covenant. At that point, Jesus had not yet died to establish the new covenant of grace and the people listening to Him were all still under the law of Moses. Jesus was giving them a taste of what was to come. He was showing them the reality that we enjoy today.

Did the son sin against his father? Yes, most definitely. But did the father heap guilt and condemnation on his son before he received his son? No, he did not. In fact, the father did not even give his son the opportunity to finish his rehearsed speech. The father interrupted his son before he could ask to be made one of his hired servants. The father interrupted him not to condemn him for sinning against him, but to instruct his servants to bring out the best robe, put a ring on his son’s hand and sandals on his son’s feet!

Did it matter to the father that his son’s intentions may not have been all that good? We all know that the son was not returning to the father’s house because he had realized his mistake. He was returning because he was hungry! When he was feeding the pigs, he remembered that even the hired servants in his father’s house had more than enough food to eat. That was when he decided to head back to his father’s house. But the father did not care what his son’s intentions were. When the prodigal son “was still a great way off ” (and the father had no way of determining why his son was returning), his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his son’s neck and kissed him. What a wonderful picture of God’s heart of love!

Who was the one sharing the parable of the prodigal son? It was Jesus. I think Jesus knows His Father really well, wouldn’t you agree? We are hearing an eyewitness account of what God the Father is like, and Jesus should know! See how He described God’s response to those who have sinned. How is it that the father saw his son even when he was still a great way off? That’s because the father had been waiting and longing for his son to return. He must have kept his eyes on the horizon daily, hoping that each day would be the day his beloved son returned home.

Can you see His heart of love for you even when you have failed Him? You just have to take one step toward God and your loving Daddy in heaven will run toward you with no condemnation. He wants to fall upon you, kiss you, and lavish you with His love and blessings! He is waiting to clothe you with the robe of righteousness, put the signet ring of authority back in your hands and shod your feet with the sandals of right standing. He wants to reinstate you, wash you and throw a party because you came home! Our God is a God who will run toward you with NO CONDEMNATION.

Let’s cast aside our religious ideas about God. Take that one step toward your Daddy even when you have failed, and He will run to you and embrace you. He loves you and accepts you just as you are. He has all the power to help you when you fail and feel defeated.

Rejoice, my friend — there is now no condemnation for you because you are in Christ Jesus!

Your Daddy loves you and accepts you just as you are, and He has all the power to help you when you fail and feel defeated.

You typed just as much as I did only smaller print. Which btw, no disrespect intended but I dont care what you think about the length of my post. I felt it took that much to get all my points out there. I find it amusing that you would even comment on it quite frankly!
Secondly, you do have a faulty view of repentance. You almost got it but not quite. The fact that you try to explain how repentance is being positive is alarming to me. Repentance is brought on by the Holy Spirit and the result is TURNING FROM OUR FILTHY LIVES. Granted, change begins in the heart and mind and it takes time but that is what we call sanctification . It is not thinking positive!

You forgot to comment on his buddy . Ya know> Mr smiley the heretic?

1 Corinthians 15:33
Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good morals.

a word for you>Proverbs 22:25
or you may learn their ways and get yourself ensnared.


Proverbs 13:20
Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm.

Proverbs 22:25
or you may learn their ways and get yourself ensnared.

Blessed are those who do not soil their garments......


Which btw:
There are 182 references to God the Father in the 4 books of the Gospel, Matthew, Mark,Luke and John.
Not 1 reference to dad or daddy.
When Jesus is speaking to Abba he says Abba, Father ,We are called to show reverence, humility and honor to God.

Somehow Daddy just doesn't cut it in that regard.

Jesus never used it and he new God better than anyone else.

He said:
Father take this cup from me.

Our Father who art in heaven.
No one comes to the Father except through me.
Go into your closet and pray to your Father.

Our daddy who art in heaven. (It's just not right)


It is disrespectful to call "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed(sanctified) is your name : daddy.
But yet somehow I am not surprised you used that term

May the Grace of God abide.......

 

[KennethC]

Struggle all you want, but REPENT (which you just said I had a wrong understanding of) means to CHANGE ONE'S MIND. Nothing more, nothing less. It is NOT a Holy Spiritual ritual that gains us acceptance back into God's family.

What you are saying, in effect, is that if you sin, at that point you have decided to no longer be a follower of Christ's, and that you have to REPENT (change your mind) to again become a follower once more..... and then when you sin tomorrow, you changed your mind again, and have to go through the whole thing again.... and then, when you sin again on Monday, .... here we go again.

Well, all that time I have probably sinned just as much as you (maybe more, maybe less), but I have REMAINED a son of God, and my Daddy does not demand that I beg my way back into His good graces. All He ever wants to see is my heart saying, "I'm so sorry, Daddy.", and instantly, He embraces me.

2 Corinthians 7:10


For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.




2 Peter 3:9


The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.




2 Corinthians 12:21


And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.


Luke 13:3


I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

 

[Willie-T]

You're not too good about selecting a subject, and staying on it, are you. You did the shotgun clutter thing again.

 

[KennethC]

You're not too good about selecting a subject, and staying on it, are you. You did the shotgun clutter thing again.

Who are you talking to because we were talking about repentance, and I just showed you 4 scriptures from the bible that clearly shows repentance deals with a change of mind to turn away from sins.

Belief/faith comes from hearing the word and trusting in what it says, not repentance !!!

 

[Willie-T]

That is one big difference between us..... I have a Daddy, you have a Father Figure.

 

[BenFTW]

Don't need to read his books as I have heard 5 of his sermons and each time he said something that did not align with the bible.

For I have watched a number of biblical preachers on TV to see if they line up with the word of God in what they say, or if they speak contradictory to the bible. The other thing I do is look to see who's ministry program they are associated with to see if they are trust worthy as well. For if they connected with other false teachers then that is another showing of their character, and Prince is associated with Joel Osteen who is a prosperity teacher that chargers people to hear him.

Do tell, what did you find wrong in those five sermons that was not scriptural? I want you to elaborate, instead of being like others who just defame and call people heretics without proof. Of course he preaches radical grace, and that is cause for controversy for those who subscribe to a works orientated gospel. So again, what exactly does he preach that you find to not be scriptural?

 

[Willie-T]

Who are you talking to because we were talking about repentance, and I just showed you 4 scriptures from the bible that clearly shows repentance deals with a change of mind to turn away from sins.

Belief/faith comes from hearing the word and trusting in what it says, not repentance !!!

Did you do "the shotgun clutter thing?" Well, that should have let you know who was being addressed.

 

[blondieindahouse]

That is one big difference between us..... I have a Daddy, you have a Father Figure.

No you do not have a daddy. You just think you do.
Im done responding to bloviated responses from you. Oky doky! Ill be generating a post with facts concerning your idle ie wolve buddy JP ;that is if the rules allow me to do so.

May the Lord bless you

 

[blondieindahouse]

Do tell, what did you find wrong in those five sermons that was not scriptural? I want you to elaborate, instead of being like others who just defame and call people heretics without proof. Of course he preaches radical grace, and that is cause for controversy for those who subscribe to a works orientated gospel. So again, what exactly does he preach that you find to not be scriptural?

The truth is all over the web! Have at it or would you rather someone else do your research?

 

[KennethC]

Do tell, what did you find wrong in those five sermons that was not scriptural? I want you to elaborate, instead of being like others who just defame and call people heretics without proof. Of course he preaches radical grace, and that is cause for controversy for those who subscribe to a works orientated gospel. So again, what exactly does he preach that you find to not be scriptural?

1st) He said that the Holy Spirit does not convict believers.............Refuted in John and Hebrews

2nd) He placed all law as the same and said we don't have to follow any standards........Refuted in the bible as it makes a difference between the Mosaic written ordinances and perfect law of liberty (law of Christ). Also Acts 15 and Romans 13:9-11 refutes this also, so does other places that show the 10 Commandments upheld in the NT.

3rd) He said turning from sin is not necessary...............Refuted by scripture as that is what repentance, and the fruits of the Spirit will exactly guide one to do.

4th) God does not judge nations for wickedness.............We absolutely know this is wrong

5th) The Word of God doesn’t produce faith, only the Word of Christ...........What ??? It's one and the same !!!


There are many more that he said, but I will just leave it at 5 for now and leave off with two statements he made;

"We can’t take doctrine from the gospels because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead yet"

"Even though the book of I John was written to the church, the opening chapter is only for Gnostics and therefore we can disregard the instructions to confess our sin"

 

[KennethC]

The truth is all over the web! Have at it or would you rather someone else do your research?

Please let me know when you start that thread because yes you can point out the false teachings of some teachers, as they have done many in the past.

I have a list of 52 contradictory statements Joseph Prince made........

 

[ladylynn]

That is one big difference between us..... I have a Daddy, you have a Father Figure.

I have a Daddy too. Jesus called Him "Abba Father" which simply means "Daddy" Taking time to learn from others can be very beneficial. I didn't learn this fact until just about a year ago. He IS a wonderful Daddy Father.

 

[Willie-T]

Do tell, what did you find wrong in those five sermons that was not scriptural? I want you to elaborate, instead of being like others who just defame and call people heretics without proof. Of course he preaches radical grace, and that is cause for controversy for those who subscribe to a works orientated gospel. So again, what exactly does he preach that you find to not be scriptural?

I'm pretty sure it is the same thing Paul taught that the law-keeper didn't want to interfere with their nice, comfortable rules a couple of thousand years ago. (Don't mess with our blue pills!!!)

 

[BenFTW]

The truth is all over the web! Have at it or would you rather someone else do your research?

"What did you find wrong in those five sermons?" That was the question asked, and it is very specific to those five sermons of which he did not specify. Instead of insinuating that I am lazy, maybe you too could also specify which particular sermons you listened to and found fault in. Maybe you could engage in conversation instead of defamation of Joseph Prince and present solid evidence instead of "heretic."

 

[KennethC]

I'm pretty sure it is the same thing Paul taught that the law-keeper didn't want to interfere with their nice, comfortable rules a couple of thousand years ago. (Don't mess with our blue pills!!!)

POST #173........................

"What did you find wrong in those five sermons?" That was the question asked, and it is very specific to those five sermons of which he did not specify. Instead of insinuating that I am lazy, maybe you too could also specify which particular sermons you listened to and found fault in. Maybe you could engage in conversation instead of defamation of Joseph Prince and present solid evidence instead of "heretic."

 

[Willie-T]

Post #173 should embarrass you.

 

[ladylynn]

"What did you find wrong in those five sermons?" That was the question asked, and it is very specific to those five sermons of which he did not specify. Instead of insinuating that I am lazy, maybe you too could also specify which particular sermons you listened to and found fault in. Maybe you could engage in conversation instead of defamation of Joseph Prince and present solid evidence instead of "heretic."

I highly agree with you BenFTW., the way people label others is outrageous. I listen to a few Word of Faith preachers and none of them have preached the stuff they get accused of on these forums. I don't put out the things I've been accused of either so I know of where I speak too!

I also listen to Charles Stanley and Andy Stanley., David Jeremiah, Billy Graham.,many others over the years. All have wonderful insight into the Bible. God has gifted them with the ability to preach and teach. I like Ravi Zachariahs too especially his question and answer forums with college kids on college campuses or in debates with atheists.

It is a bad practice to throw the word "heretic" around so freely in these forums. I wish people would not do it.