Earth is Flat and Stationary

[pckts]

This is how it ends when somebody knowing only English and reading only translations takes everything he reads in a translation literally and does not try to get deeper.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
- "the heaven and the earth" in Bible means "all that is", i.e. Universe, i.e. stars, planets etc.

This is how our discussion ends, with you claiming superior knowledge, yet still interpret figuratively to fit the globe model as your reasoning.

Literal interpretation vs figurative interpenetration has nothing to do with translation. Good for you, you know Greek, that doesn't give you authority or reason to interpret the scripture figuratively to fit the globe model.

 

[Zen]

This is how it ends when somebody knowing only English and reading only translations takes everything he reads in a translation literally and does not try to get deeper.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
- "the heaven and the earth" in Bible means "all that is", i.e. Universe, i.e. stars, planets etc.

Congratulations on being able to speak more than 1 language. You keep hinting at it, so congratulations, I hope it feels good.

But unfortunately you're not discerning the truth of God's Word.

Heaven & earth = the first day.
The sun was created on the 4th day.

 

[trofimus]

This is how our discussion ends, with you claiming superior knowledge, yet still interpret figuratively to fit the globe model as your reasoning.

Literal interpretation vs figurative interpenetration has nothing to do with translation. Good for you, you know Greek, that doesn't give you authority or reason to interpret the scripture figuratively to fit the globe model.

The information that "the heaven and the earth" means Universe has nothing to do with Greek.

For you, it only means one problem - the Universe was created before the verse no 2.

 

[trofimus]

Congratulations on being able to speak more than 1 language. You keep hinting at it, so congratulations, I hope it feels good.

But unfortunately you're not discerning the truth of God's Word.

Heaven & earth = the first day.
The sun was created on the 4th day.

No, the Universe = before the first day.

Our planet full of waters = the beginning of the first day.

I feel still the same, you must only realize that not everything you have in your English Bible must be translated in that way.

 

[pckts]

This is how it ends when somebody knowing only English and reading only translations takes everything he reads in a translation literally and does not try to get deeper.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
- "the heaven and the earth" in Bible means "all that is", i.e. Universe, i.e. stars, planets etc.

The information that "the heaven and the earth" means Universe has nothing to do with Greek.

For you, it only means one problem - the Universe was created before the verse no 2.

Why did you reference that I know only English and read English translations, if it "has nothing to do with Greek"?

What point were you trying to make then?

 

[trofimus]

Why did you reference that I know only English and read English translations, if it "has nothing to do with Greek"?

What point were you trying to make then?

In this specific post I only corrected your explanation of the first verse you both posted.

The knowledge of foreign languages is needed for the comprehension that various words can have various meanings.

What somebody translates like "earth" can mean "land".

It seems to me that you think the Bible is inspired in the exact English form you have in your hands and that words there means exactly the same thing you are used to in the 21st century and that authors were thinking in the same way you do. This is totally wrong.

 

[Zen]

No, the Universe = before the first day.

Our planet full of waters = the beginning of the first day.

I feel still the same, you must only realize that not everything you have in your English Bible must be translated in that way.

You're not seeing the words. Keep looking at them until you see them.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Earth and heaven, then light, then stars and the sun & moon to give light and rule the day/night.

None of this is scientific, that's the point. If you're going to use the scientific/world view of creation, it contradicts the truth.

No matter what word games you play with labels like "space", it doesn't change the chronological events listed in Genesis 1.

 

[pckts]

In this specific post I only corrected your explanation of the first verse you both posted.

The knowledge of foreign languages is needed for the comprehension that various words can have various meanings.

What somebody translates like "earth" can mean "land".

It seems to me that you think the Bible is inspired in the exact English form you have in your hands and that words there means exactly the same thing you are used to in the 21st century and that authors were thinking in the same way you do. This is totally wrong.

Seems to me you interpret figuratively and claimed it had something to do with your knowledge of translation.

Where in Genesis 1 was the English translated incorrectly from Greek? Rather than claim it "can" occur, I want to know where it DID occur, giving you greater comprehension of biblical creation than the KJV. Don't just claim it can happen, if you are going to tell me my interpretation of Genesis is wrong I need to see evidence that it is. You must know what I'm doing wrong if you are going to correct me and say that I am, otherwise you are talking out of your hind-quarters.

And ensure it applies to the earth being created before the sun, and light being created before the sun. Make sure it applies to what we were discussing.

 

[trofimus]

You're not seeing the words. Keep looking at them until you see them.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Earth and heaven, then light, then stars and the sun & moon to give light and rule the day/night.

None of this is scientific, that's the point. If you're going to use the scientific/world view of creation, it contradicts the truth.

No matter what word games you play with labels like "space", it doesn't change the chronological events listed in Genesis 1.

Again, the phrase "the heaven and the earth" means the Universe. It means all that is.

If you cant see that the verse number two starts with our planet already existing and covered by waters, I do not know how to help you.

Maybe a question - when was the water created?

 

[trofimus]

Seems to me you interpret figuratively and claimed it had something to do with your knowledge of translation.

Where in Genesis 1 was the English translated incorrectly from Greek? Rather than claim it "can" occur, I want to know where it DID occur, giving you greater comprehension of biblical creation than the KJV. Don't just claim it can happen, if you are going to tell me my interpretation of Genesis is wrong I need to see evidence that it is. You must know what I'm doing wrong if you are going to correct me and say that I am, otherwise you are talking out of your hind-quarters.

Arey you the KJV Only guy? That would explain a lot.

I have already answered it.

 

[pckts]

You are the KJV Only guy? That would explain a lot.

I have already answered it.

Let me say a second time, I want evidence and specifics of where the english translation is wrong and you know better which leads you to different conclusions.

Don't just tell me it's wrong and you are right, this is not specific or evidence.

All you have said so far is that you interpret figuratively to match the globe model, nothing to do with Greek or translations.

Where does english lead me astray, and greek informs you the earth was not created before the sun, and light was not created before the sun?

 

[trofimus]

Let me say a second time, I want evidence and specifics of where the english translation is wrong and you know better which leads you to different conclusions.

Don't just tell me it's wrong and you are right, this is not specific or evidence.

All you have said so far is that you interpret figuratively to match the globe model, nothing to do with Greek or translations.

Where does english lead me astray, and greek informs you the earth was not created before the sun, and light was not created before the sun?

I already showed you with your "earth is a circle" verse.

I showed you that the same translation translates the same word as "vault" and "horizon".

You just dismissed it with saying "circle is a circle". So what else should I say...

 

[pckts]

Arey you the KJV Only guy? That would explain a lot.

I have already answered it.

Or just admit you brought up language and translations for no reason (we will ignore your vanity), and really meant to argue figurative vs literal interpretation.

 

[pckts]

I already showed you with your "earth is a circle" verse. You just dismissed it with saying "circle is a circle". So what else should I say...

That's not what we are talking about, we are talking about Genesis 1 and the two claims you made dismissing the biblical creation. I want to know where the english translation is wrong saying the earth was created before the sun, and light before the sun, and how you know these are wrong because of transnational differences from Greek.

Or admit it's figurative vs literal and you misspoke.

 

[Zen]

Scientific garbage:
1 Timothy 6:
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Immovable earth:
Psalm 93:
1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Foundations of the earth:
Job 38:
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Earth existed before the Sun:
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Light existed before stars:
Genesis 1:
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Time existed before the Sun:
Genesis 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

Stars, Sun and Moon were created for the firmament to give the light to earth:
Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Sun will stop giving light
Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

There is no Sun or stars needed to light New Jerusalem
Revelation 21:
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Heliocentric garbage:
The big bang created all matter
The gas separated itself in to stars while heavier elements separated itself in to planets
The planets orbit the stars because of gravity and inertia
The Earth moves around the sun
The sun and stars are what cause light
Stars are thousands of times larger than the Earth

 

[trofimus]

That's not what we are talking about, we are talking about Genesis 1 and the two claims you made dismissing the biblical creation.

I also already said it. For example "earth" can be translated as "land".

Or day can be translated as "period of time".

Etc.

If you do not know it, you will end up telling us your dogmas based on your translation.

 

[trofimus]

Scientific garbage:
1 Timothy 6:
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Immovable earth:
Psalm 93:
1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Foundations of the earth:
Job 38:
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Earth existed before the Sun:
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Light existed before stars:
Genesis 1:
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Time existed before the Sun:
Genesis 1:
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

Stars, Sun and Moon were created for the firmament to give the light to earth:
Genesis 1:
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Sun will stop giving light
Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

There is no Sun or stars needed to light New Jerusalem
Revelation 21:
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Heliocentric garbage:
The big bang created all matter
The gas separated itself in to stars while heavier elements separated itself in to planets
The planets orbit the stars because of gravity and inertia
The Earth moves around the sun
The sun and stars are what cause light
Stars are thousands of times larger than the Earth

When were the waters created?

 

[Zen]

When were the waters created?

When the heaven and earth were created, in the beginning. Before light.

 

[pckts]

I also already said it. For example "earth" can be translated as "land".

Or day can be translated as "period of time".

Etc.

If you do not know it, you will end up telling us your dogmas based on your translation.

So Genesis was incorrect using earth instead of land, or are you just claiming earth CAN be translated as land with greek?

How does this effect the earth being created before the sun, and light before the sun?

How does day translated as "period of time" lead you to believe the earth not created before the sun, and light before sun?

I still think you misspoke and actually meant to argue figurative vs literal, but wait for more evidence and specifics from you to argue your position that the earth was not created before the sun, and that light was created before the sun.

 

[trofimus]

When the heaven and earth were created, in the beginning. Before light.

So, in the verse one?

Do you accept then, that in the first verse the Universe was created, our planet, waters above its surface?

So why cant you accept that also stars, sun or moon were created in the first verse?