ENOCH ( A introduction )

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

Seems like that was a good copy, 2LIVE4GOD gave me,

here is another place you can read it. Then if after its read. Anyone can address what they want in it :

The Book of Enoch with verse numbers - Heaven Net

oldhermit · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

The burden of proof is not on me. If you feel the document is inspired you need to supply sufficient proof to support your claim. The fact that it contains things that are also contained in the Bible does not make it inspired. The book of Mormon contains many quotes and accounts of Old Testament narratives, particularly from the book of Isaiah. Yet, the book of Mormon is no more inspired than the Sears catalogue. The fact that a human document contains material from inspired sources not give credibility to that document.

iamsoandso · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

[SIZE=+1](((( The book of Enoch should be read by all Christians.. It's not that easy to explain the book of Enoch. The first thing you need to realize is there are several different copies of the book of Enoch out there and the one you want to read is called
"Enoch 1 or Enoch I" ;This is the one that is cannon in Ethiopian Christian Churches.

As far as which parts are legit? Personally the entire book called """Enoch I or Enoch 1 ,is legitimate."""""

the other book of Enoch there are gnostic teachings within it that are so far out of sync with the Bible that they are most likely Not part of God's word ))))

The Book of Enoch introduction

June 24th, 2013

We first learn of Enoch in Genesis 5 but it leaves us with questions. Hebrews 11 has the answers and Jude quotes Enoch! How did Jude come to know the words of Enoch? They are not in the Bible. The answer of course, is The Book of Enoch. A book which is actually quoted not only by Jude, but also James the natural brother of Jesus. The quote in (Jude 14-15) & (1 Enoch 1:9) is as follows: “In the seventh (generation) from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: ‘Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him’.”

What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?
Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 “And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables.” This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called “Church Fathers” is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century “Epistle of Barnabus” makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century “Church Fathers” like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch “Holy Scripture”. The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400′s rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries. The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered.

The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called “the messiah”; “the righteous one”; “the chosen one” and “the son of man.” Chapter 46:1-2, There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness.”

The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch’s generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ. We know that the early Church made use of the Book of Enoch, but it was then all but lost, until recent times. Perhaps this book was meant for our generation, as it is widely available today after being concealed for over a millennia. (Enoch 1:1-3) The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.
[/SIZE]

turn to "Isaiah 46:10",,,,,the same book were it is said the first time hell is mentioned,,,,,notice what the same prophet states,,,,,,,"from the beginning the end",,,beginning of the story of Moses birth or mankind?,,,and then "ancient of days",,,,so he points not once,but twice that that that was reviled from the "very beginning of creation",,,before even Moses.

In what book was it written that "a deliverer was to be born and deliver the Hebrew from the pharaoh" ??? that is even the magicians of the phroah were of full knowledge of it. but notice the first 5 books had not yet been written,i.e. genesis exodus,Leviticus Deuteronomy numbers,,,so what books did the prophets give this prophecy of the birth of moses?

turn to second Samuel verse one,,,begin to read,now after reading the book to it's end,return to second Samuel chapter one verse one.,,,,,,,,notice it begins with the fact that the king "Saul"is dead i the grave as Samuel stated? and for having the soothsayer raise his spirit from the grave?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so in fact,,,how can a man(Samuel) who is dead and in the grave write a book(second Samuel)after he is dead and then confesses to saul when raised from his sleep "i know not"???????????

find the story where Michael when contending with the devil said "the lord rebuke you",,,,,,,,,,,read it to me from the original,,,,,,,,,,,,

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

iamsoandso said:

turn to "Isaiah 46:10",,,,,the same book were it is said the first time hell is mentioned,,,,,notice what the same prophet states,,,,,,,"from the beginning the end",,,beginning of the story of Moses birth or mankind?,,,and then "ancient of days",,,,so he points not once,but twice that that that was reviled from the "very beginning of creation",,,before even Moses.

In what book was it written that "a deliverer was to be born and deliver the Hebrew from the pharaoh" ??? that is even the magicians of the phroah were of full knowledge of it. but notice the first 5 books had not yet been written,i.e. genesis exodus,Leviticus Deuteronomy numbers,,,so what books did the prophets give this prophecy of the birth of moses?

turn to second Samuel verse one,,,begin to read,now after reading the book to it's end,return to second Samuel chapter one verse one.,,,,,,,,notice it begins with the fact that the king "Saul"is dead i the grave as Samuel stated? and for having the soothsayer raise his spirit from the grave?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so in fact,,,how can a man(Samuel) who is dead and in the grave write a book(second Samuel)after he is dead and then confesses to saul when raised from his sleep "i know not"???????????

find the story where Michael when contending with the devil said "the lord rebuke you",,,,,,,,,,,read it to me from the original,,,,,,,,,,,,

I don't get what your saying. Maybe you can make it a bit more concise . And first say, what your going to explain. I just don't understand.

iamsoandso · Jul 7, 2013

both David in the first chapter of second Samuel and Joshuah,,,,,,,quote from the "book of jasher",,,,the upright ones.,,,,,now in the days of Joshuah there were "genesis,exodus,Leviticus,Deuteronomy,numbers,,,,,,and+ the book/books? of the "upright ones",,,,,,,,and who told you this???????????????,,,,,"David and Joshuah",,,,,,,,not iamsoandso,,,,,,,,

iamsoandso · Jul 7, 2013

there were other books my friend,,,,predating the first five books of Moses,,,,,,,,,,,,,probably Enoch,,,,,,,and spoken of in the bible,,,,,,,,

iamsoandso · Jul 7, 2013

think what i am pointing out about 2nd Samuel,,,,i love god,,he is not "incorrect",,,,,man,,,misunderstood something when they interpreted the original manuscripts they said "this is the book of",,,,,,,but notice "the prophet Samuel is not alive at any time from 2nd Samuel verse 1 to it's end,so he could not have written it",,,,,,,here is the rightful dividing of the word of truth as Paul states,,,,,,

OwenHeidenreich · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

everyone was saved by Jesus Christ, even if they lived before him. The sacrifices didn't forgive them of their sins, but they were required by law. The messiah's blood truly forgave them of their sins, so yes, they should have been warned about an eternal hell whether or not they "knew" the messiah.

God is not gonna change, he didn't add the eternal hell later once everyone found out that Christ is Lord.

Think about it, if Moses wasn't warned about this eternal hell that means that it never existed as a consequence, according to amos 3:7

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

OwenHeidenreich said:

Remember, its written. That while Christ was still in the tomb. He went to those that are in prison . And I'm sure he preached to them and freed many of them. That is giving them the same opertunity we have today. He gave to all those people that lived before. because its written, you have to accept Christ. Christ did His part, but it takes action on our part also. either way. this is getting off subject

Angela53510 · Jul 7, 2013

Just because a book is true (Not saying Enoch 1 is true) doesn't make it inspired.

1 Maccabees is based on historical fact but not inspired.

I could find many science text books which are pretty much true, it doesn't make them inspired.

God inspired the books of the Old and New Testament. We can trust them in every way. In Kings and Chronicles, there are many references to books which are lost in antiquity, such as the Book of the Kings of Judah, and the Book of the Kings of Israel.

My thought is that God would not allow his inspired word to be lost. Enoch 1 was basically lost to the early church. They closed the canon, with full knowledge there were other books out there, from books written in Old Testament times, to gnostic books written after the New Testament which are either not inspired or false.

I do not think God would have allowed an inspired text to be lost for many years. Therefore I reject this book as inspired, as I am sure the Church Fathers would have, too!

PS. There is enough text in our Bible to keep us studying and understanding for the rest of our lives. Why bother with a book of unknown origin which is not inspired?

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

oldhermit said:

Yea My position is to show its legit. But your in effect taking a stance on this topic also when you comment saying the opposite. Anyone can come along, and say its not inspired. So you also have to show why you believe that. Otherwise there is no reason to believe you either .

Also you can't compare this to the book of Mormon ..
Because Enoch and His writings are actually mentioned in the Word of God.

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

Angela53510 said:

I think your history is a bit off. Seeing at the time you say it fell off, the Church itself that was persecuting Christians at that time would have been the group that probably took it upon themselves to silence the writings.

But, the writings were alive and well and protected in Ethiopia . Some of the history is in the Original post. And, like was already stated, Enoch is also found among the dead sea scrolls. That is before the later writings you talked about.

Enoch is unknown only, to people that are not familiar that the Bible mentions Enoch and his writings.

OwenHeidenreich · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

you're referring to 1 peter 3:18-20 and you've totally misinterpreted it, Jesus did not go down to the grave and preach a sermon to the dead people who died before him. The ancient Jews already believed that the messiah would take their sins away, they already have faith in the messiah before he ever came. So they were saved because of that faith.

but im saying that eternal hell is a false concept anyway because Moses was never warned about it, therefore it is not true because of amos 3:7 he should have been warned about it.

So if enoch mentions something that Moses never knew about........

that means that enoch is false........... because Moses would have known about it according to amos 3:7 (which is God's word)

something that is very interesting is that Jude talks about enoch, that is interesting...

but the conept of eternal hell is misinterpreted.

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

Hebrews 11:5

King James Version (KJV)

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

But, what testimony did Enoch the grandfather of Noah, have that pleased God ?

If your all familiar with at least Genesis 6. you would Know the reason, why God was pleased with Enoch and saved his grandson Noah. And what it was, Noah was saved from and why Noah. This Enoch plainly states what is plainly recorded in Genesis 6.

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

OwenHeidenreich said:

The jews of today don't even believe in Messiah. why would those back then. I think that is more a assumption on your part, that you need to show scriptures for, that they knew that they would be saved without even knowing of Messiah ?

1 Peter 3:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, ( to God but not to a hole in the ground ) being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

(God is the God of the living Not the dead. So these people that died all the way back to even Adams and Eves time would have to go somewhere.)

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

(Who are the spirits in prison ? Could that me the same place Christ talked about just before His death ?)

( Luke 23:
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. )

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Even the people all the way back to Noah's time are mentioned in relation to Christ preaching to the spirits in Prison... I am not misinterpreting , and I am never going to interpret it... I'm letting it speak for itself . Just reading it and allowing it to say what it says. Thats the best way to go about reading the Bible.

And again. Weather or not hell is mentioned before or after makes little difference.

just-me · Jul 7, 2013

I've read the 1st book of Enoch. I'ts very enlightening. I wouldn't suggest reading the 2nd and 3rd. I think those two are tainted.
The 1st book of Enoch has no contradictions from the KJV that I have found.

OwenHeidenreich · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

The jews of the old testament knew there would be a messiah, he's prophesied in the scriptures all the time... isaiah 53 the messiah forgiving them of their sins.

They put their faith in the fact that messiah would permanently forgive their sins. so theres some scripture.

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

OwenHeidenreich said:

I never heard that before. And if its not written of then why bother trying to use that point ? The Scriptures state that one must except Christ.

Wouldn't be just plain and simple to use whats written. Maybe what is recorded in Peter 3 :18-10 ? .

Anyway back to Enoch

Jude 1:14-25

King James Version (KJV)

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jude 1:

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Genesis 6

King James Version (KJV)

6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Enoch 6 :

1) And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2) them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them,

7

1) And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them

And they 3) became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4) all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5) them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6) fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

nathan3 · Jul 7, 2013

If no one knows What the book of Enoch I is then this should be it as far as I can tell.

The Book of Enoch with verse numbers - Heaven Net

oldhermit · Jul 7, 2013

nathan3 said:

Yea My position is to show its legit. But your in effect taking a stance on this topic also when you comment saying the opposite. Anyone can come along, and say its not inspired. So you also have to show why you believe that. Otherwise there is no reason to believe you either .

Also you can't compare this to the book of Mormon ..
Because Enoch and His writings are actually mentioned in the Word of God.

So, are you suggesting that Enoch himself wrote the Book of Enoch?

ENOCH ( A introduction )

nathan3

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

nathan3

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

OwenHeidenreich

Guest

nathan3

Guest

Senior Member

nathan3

Guest

nathan3

Guest

OwenHeidenreich

Guest

nathan3

Guest

nathan3

Guest

Banned

OwenHeidenreich

Guest

nathan3

Guest

nathan3

Guest

Senior Member