ENOCH ( A introduction )

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#61
#61
oldhermit said:
The writer of the book of Enoch did exactly what Joseph Smith did. He incorporated an apparently well known prophesy into his own work - the "book of Enoch." That does not give credence to all of the other nonsense that the book contains such as 450 foot giants.
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not only that...it wasn't just the one book of enoch...there was an entire -genre- of enochian literature mainly designed to 'fill in the blanks' in the bible with superstition and fiction...

for some reason some people seem to want to single out just -one- book from that huge body of enochian literature for acceptance as 'scripture'...that is logically inconsistent...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#62
#62
nathan3 said:
Those are okay, like 1st and 2nd Esdras . thats just Ezra in the Greek.
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actually while first esdras is more or less a paraphrase of parts of chronicles and ezra and nehemiah...second esdras is a completely different book full of apocalyptic 'prophecy'
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#63
#63
oldhermit said:
All scripture is indeed inspired by God. What I am pointing out is that the "Book of Enoch" is not scripture. Jude only quoted a statement made by Enoch that clearly was inspired and Jude gives the inspired application of that quote . He is not quoting the "Book of Enoch."


This is very true. However, for what ever reason God saw fit not to retain these in the collection of canonized scripture. He have to assume that God has always involved in that process in order to preserve that which HE has chosen to preserve.

The writer of the book of Enoch did exactly what Joseph Smith did. He incorporated an apparently well known prophesy into his own work - the "book of Enoch." That does not give credence to all of the other nonsense that the book contains such as 450 foot giants.
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Well, the claim that they were 450 feet tall is probably quite a stretch...
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#64
Jun 30, 2011
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#64
I think studying the book of enoch is pretty much useless for living the Life that Scripture entails - and to harp on we should study it, leads to all sorts of misgivings,
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#65
Jul 28, 2012
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#65
RachelBibleStudent said:
not only that...it wasn't just the one book of enoch...there was an entire -genre- of enochian literature mainly designed to 'fill in the blanks' in the bible with superstition and fiction...

for some reason some people seem to want to single out just -one- book from that huge body of enochian literature for acceptance as 'scripture'...that is logically inconsistent...
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Yea. People did the same thing with the Maccabean writings but not even the Catholic Church regards these as inspired texts. In fact, 2 Macc admits that there were no prophets in those days.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#66
#66
OwenHeidenreich said:
God wouldnt inspire the manuscripts, and then leave it up to man to compile it into one book (aka bible)

If God inspired the book, God would make sure it got in into our compilation of Biblical writings.
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Well I can see that reasoning when it comes to telling us everything necessary concerning our salvation, how to live Godly lives, etc. But that doesn't mean there aren't other books that might fill in some history blanks and such.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#67
Jul 28, 2012
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#67
Shiloah said:
Well I can see that reasoning when it comes to telling us everything necessary concerning our salvation, how to live Godly lives, etc. But that doesn't mean there aren't other books that might fill in some history blanks and such.
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I would not deny this although, the "Book of Enoch" is not one of those. The Maccabean documents might be the closest thing that would fall into this classification of work.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#68
#68
I'd just take it with a grain of salt, as they say. But it's an interesting read. It's not like I think of it as scripture in any way.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#69
#69
thecreationtutor said:
I am hopeful that you are up to the condemnation that you could receive, trying to be a teacher, and I haven't heard any serious preacher, or student of God's word go to the book of enoch like the Bible isn't enough, so yeah...
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Dont worry about me i'll be fine :) God has my phone number.

But enoch matches gen 6
 
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Tintin

Guest
#71
#71
Enoch doesn't have a prophecy from Genesis 6 incorporated into it. As Rachel mentioned, Enoch is part of a genre of writings where the early Jewish people expanded on parts of the Bible. I don't think it was superstition, just a form of storytelling. I don't think they're false teachings in that they will lead you away from the truth but they're not inspired. Certainly, they're interesting reads (what I've read so far) and of cultural importance and sometimes historical importance. Something doesn't have to be inspired to be true and something like the Book of Mormon doesn't even agree with the Bible. Some of these other texts, while not inspired, do. As for the giants that are 450 feet tall, that has to be a translation error.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#72
#72
well Thanks for responding, Rather we looked at the scriptures addressed in Enoch and its parent scriptures in the Bible. But thanks non the less.

Read Enoch I/1 here :

The Book of Enoch with verse numbers - Heaven Net

like I said, the other enoch books i dont recomend
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#73
#73
Tintin said:
Okay, but I'll still read the rest for interest. It's easy to tell that Enoch 1 is a very early writing. I have a more modern translation and it's still features rather difficult wording at times and is quite dry in parts. The visions in the spiritual realms are pretty great though.
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It's been quite awhile since I've read it. Are you talking about Enoch's trip to heaven when you say visions?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#74
#74
OwenHeidenreich said:
The first time hell is mentioned is Isaiah 66:24 reads: "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

other than that, the fire imagery of tortued burning bodies for ever and ever isnt mentioned at all until, of course, isaiah 66:24
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I don't see the word "tortured" in there. I see "dead bodies" burning.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#75
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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#75
nathan3 said:
I think your history is a bit off. Seeing at the time you say it fell off, the Church itself that was persecuting Christians at that time would have been the group that probably took it upon themselves to silence the writings.

But, the writings were alive and well and protected in Ethiopia . Some of the history is in the Original post. And, like was already stated, Enoch is also found among the dead sea scrolls. That is before the later writings you talked about.

Enoch is unknown only, to people that are not familiar that the Bible mentions Enoch and his writings.
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I was quite aware that the book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude 14. Like I said, just because something is mentioned (even in the Bible) doesn't mean it is inspired. Try reading 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles. Every chapter has verses about books that are lost in antiquity. They are called The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and the Book of the Kings of Judah. For example:

"The rest of the acts of Abijam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah?" 1 Kings 15:7

"Now the rest of the deeds of Menahem and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel?" 2 Kings 15:21

"Now the rest of the deeds of Pekahiah and all that he did, behold, they are written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel." 2 Kings 15:26

This does not make these books inspired, just that they existed and they were read by the people of the time.

As for the book of Enoch being preserved in Ethiopia - that still does not make it inspired, if it even was preserved. You do know what inspired means, right???

Stick to the Bible and you will not go far wrong. But then again, you already are following false teachers, so why does this not surprise me?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#76
#76
Angela53510 said:
I was quite aware that the book of Enoch is mentioned in Jude 14. Like I said, just because something is mentioned (even in the Bible) doesn't mean it is inspired. Try reading 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles. Every chapter has verses about books that are lost in antiquity. They are called The Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and the Book of the Kings of Judah. For example:

"The rest of the acts of Abijam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah?" 1 Kings 15:7

"Now the rest of the deeds of Menahem and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel?" 2 Kings 15:21

"Now the rest of the deeds of Pekahiah and all that he did, behold, they are written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel." 2 Kings 15:26

This does not make these books inspired, just that they existed and they were read by the people of the time.

As for the book of Enoch being preserved in Ethiopia - that still does not make it inspired, if it even was preserved. You do know what inspired means, right???

Stick to the Bible and you will not go far wrong. But then again, you already are following false teachers, so why does this not surprise me?
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It's not for everyone.

But the teachings are already present in the Bible. So there is no loss of understanding without Enoch. I keep this for myself at the least. But for others, It is already written in the scriptures, because, it is taught by Christ, Noah and others. Regarding the fallen angels .
 
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