Eternal Punishment

[charisenexcelcis]

Yea, I worked on this word for about 3 months, part time of course, it's a difficult one, I mean, what I'm saying is that there is more to it than Strong's, but of course one would have to be lead by the Spirit on this matter, think about how important this word is, like I said I spent 3 months studying one word when I approached the Hell Doctrine, if we can call it that, and what I found was 'everlasting' 'forever' and 'eternal' do not mean infinity, but let the Spirit testify to this.

Three months? It took you three months to figure out a single Greek word? Do you see any problem with this?

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Romans 16:26 But now has been manifested and by the writings of the prophets according to the commandment of the eternal God....uses the word aionas---actually tou aioniou theou--is this sayning God is eternal or only God for certain ages? I would say forever, what say ye?

 

[greatkraw]

Romans 16:26 But now has been manifested and by the writings of the prophets according to the commandment of the eternal God....uses the word aionas---actually tou aioniou theou--is this sayning God is eternal or only God for certain ages? I would say forever, what say ye?

tou = the

aiouniou = from(or out from) aon(singular)

theou = God(ou ending to agree with aon)


therefore

the aon out from God

all clear? good!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You understand someone can use that argument and say "everlasting life isn't really eternal". Not only that - but..

Revelation 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

How long is day and night forever and ever ?

Torment - Basanizo. from basanos - the touch stone - a dark coloured stone on which pure gold, when rubbed leaves a perculiar mark. generally a test, trial whether a thing be genuine. See Liddel and Scott Greek- English Lexicon.

'for ever and ever' - eis tous aionas ton aionon . Appendix 151 E.W. Bullinger Companion Bible; 'to the ages of the ages'.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

tou = the

aiouniou = from(or out from) aon(singular)

theou = God(ou ending to agree with aon)


therefore

the aon out from God

all clear? good!

And how long would the aon or age from God be?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I am not a Platonist, so that was a wierd reference. You don't read Greek, you don't know how to use the Greek helps correctly, do you even know what preposition would be used for the expression "into the ages"? Do you know what case aionas would be in that example? So, why don't you use Greek to interpret Greek?

I am using the Greek to interpret Greek, but also we have another witness in the Hebrew olam, that must be considered instead of the Greek Platonic sense of eternity and soul.

aionois - of or belonging to an age, occurs 71 times and rendered "eternal" and "everlasting". See Appendix 151- E.W. Bullinger Companion Bible KJV.

 

[greatkraw]

eis literally means into
(feminine)ages(accusative - it happens to them)
(masculine)age(it does the action)

therefore the age into ages literally

there is no genetive here so of is not appropriate

Try Newt and Gingrich's Greek Lexicon (I kid you not)

 

[charisenexcelcis]

And how long would the aon or age from God be?

Thus the "From the ages" God. Meaning--eternal.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Torment - Basanizo. from basanos - the touch stone - a dark coloured stone on which pure gold, when rubbed leaves a perculiar mark. generally a test, trial whether a thing be genuine. See Liddel and Scott Greek- English Lexicon.

'for ever and ever' - eis tous aionas ton aionon . Appendix 151 E.W. Bullinger Companion Bible; 'to the ages of the ages'.

Um what???

So eternal life is not really eternal. Hell is not really eternal.. We all just cease to exist?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Um what???

So eternal life is not really eternal. Hell is not really eternal.. We all just cease to exist?

It depends on your concept of eternity. Jesus Christ is the ressurrection, so those in Christ chosen to be with Him, will be with Him in the Kingdom of God.

 

[resurrection33]

Thats called tribulations ...in this world ye shall have tribulation John 16:33...i think thats FAR from hell described in the bible...imo

Could hell be much worse than what Tiger is going through right now?

 

[resurrection33]

Really!..he is in hell?..in his few million dollar mansion sipping a martini from the crystal collection feeling sorry for himself?
that's your idea of hell but not The Word of our God's

I wouldn’t trade places with him for all the money in the world.

 

[Slepsog4]

2 options:

eternal/everlasting punishment

1. eternally being punished
2. punishment whose results are eternal

If there are degrees of punishment, it makes sense that there is a limited duration to the punishing which ends in annihilation from which one never returns.

 

[resurrection33]

2 options:

eternal/everlasting punishment

1. eternally being punished
2. punishment whose results are eternal

If there are degrees of punishment, it makes sense that there is a limited duration to the punishing which ends in annihilation from which one never returns.

Isn’t there a third option? When I misbehaved as kid, my parents would send me to my room until they thought I’d been punished enough. Couldn’t the third option be that there always will be a “room you can be sent to” throughout all of eternity, but you will never be sent there forever for any single sin you commit?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

2 options:

eternal/everlasting punishment

1. eternally being punished
2. punishment whose results are eternal

If there are degrees of punishment, it makes sense that there is a limited duration to the punishing which ends in annihilation from which one never returns.

Yes you can look it at that way, and also if we think of God's consuming fire is 'eternal' and cannot be extinguished and it destoyes what is evil, utterly consumes it but refines, purifies what is good, so the example of the touch stone being tried and tested to see if genuine on the stone and this is translated in english 'torment'. Or Sodom and Gormorrah being completely destroyed by God's eternal fire.

 

[Definition_Christ]

It depends on your concept of eternity. Jesus Christ is the ressurrection, so those in Christ chosen to be with Him, will be with Him in the Kingdom of God.

My concept of eternity?

Uh.. Your definition of eternity is what confuses me, according to you something eternal is not really eternal.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

My concept of eternity?

Uh.. Your definition of eternity is what confuses me, according to you something eternal is not really eternal.

Well 'eternity' translated from the Koine Greek aionios does not mean infinity.

Young's Analytical Concordance: aionios - Age lasting

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Well 'eternity' translated from the Koine Greek aionios does not mean infinity.

Young's Analytical Concordance: aionios - Age lasting

So you must have an age-lasting god (note the lower case). lol

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

So you must have an age-lasting god (note the lower case). lol

Robert Young is a Bible translator - Young's Literal Translation of the Bible, and that is his defintion of the word, he translates it as 'age-lasting', so does E.W. Bullinger.

God is not subject to time or ages, He constructs times and ages. He is before all things.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Well 'eternity' translated from the Koine Greek aionios does not mean infinity.

Young's Analytical Concordance: aionios - Age lasting

τὰ γὰρ ὀψώνια τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος, τὸ δὲ χάρισμα τοῦ Θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰώνιος ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ τῷ Κυρίῳ ἡμῶν.

ta gar oywnia thV amartiaV qanatoV to de carisma tou qeou zwh aiwnioV en cristw ihsou tw kuriw hmwn

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
(Romans 6:23)

So we have age-lasting life?