Eternal Punishment
- Thread starter resurrection33
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
S
Since God is Merciful an eternal torture in hell would be imcompatible with His loving and just character. So even though many people will go to hell because of their sins they won´t be there forever. Some will be totally destroyed in the lake of fire:
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
For those of you who are trying to decide if eternal is forever or infinity, the same word is used to describe the reward of those in Christ. So if you are going to limit the time of punishment, you would also be limiting the time of reward in heaven. Are you sure you want to interpret the Greek that way? Jesus said that we would be with Him forever. I believe Him. So either the word has two dissimilar meanings, or those going to Hell have little hope.
C
Yes, I agree and this is why I brought up the matter of Platonics in regard to the soul and eternity because our thoughts and language have developed out of different theological concepts, now the Old Testament and Hebrew prophets did not share Plato's view of the state of the soul after death, and as we know we must use the OT in our interpretation of the NT and not thoughts of pagan origin, now as we know how the church has succumb to this often, dreaming up fantastical images of the Devil torturing poor sinners over hot coals without mercy for never-ending infinity. It is a effective means of persuasion by means of fear of physical torture, but is it a charge you want to lay at God's feet? Let the Spirit testify, there is more to this than immediately meets the eye.
G
http://www.matthewmcgee.org/hel4ever.html
The problem is that despite all that the scriptures say, many people simply do not think it would be fair for God to sentence the wicked to eternal torment. They know that God is just. And they reason, "If God is at least as smart as I am, He will agree with me." They rule out the possibility that God may have insights and information that they lack. Yet God says in Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." A three-year old child is not capable of properly judging whether all of his father's rules are best. Similarly, we are not capable of stepping into God's shoes and determining what is just. God is the only one fit to judge our eternal destiny. His Word is very clear. There is a place of eternal punishment for the lost.
The problem is that despite all that the scriptures say, many people simply do not think it would be fair for God to sentence the wicked to eternal torment. They know that God is just. And they reason, "If God is at least as smart as I am, He will agree with me." They rule out the possibility that God may have insights and information that they lack. Yet God says in Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." A three-year old child is not capable of properly judging whether all of his father's rules are best. Similarly, we are not capable of stepping into God's shoes and determining what is just. God is the only one fit to judge our eternal destiny. His Word is very clear. There is a place of eternal punishment for the lost.
C
Well, it's not that clear.
olam - is the Hebrew word derived from alam which means 'hide', and means hidden time or age, like the Greek aion , by which word, or it's adjective aionios is generally rendered in the Septuagint and then again by the same method in the NT.
Which would give us an even greater understanding of Isaiah 55:8-9, Isaiah himself uses the word olam and it is translated 'everlasting', and for ever and ever', even 'world without end', but it is understood to mean - time unseen, or an age yet to be revealed or detemined, a time relating to God's determination. Can you see the difference?
olam - is the Hebrew word derived from alam which means 'hide', and means hidden time or age, like the Greek aion , by which word, or it's adjective aionios is generally rendered in the Septuagint and then again by the same method in the NT.
Which would give us an even greater understanding of Isaiah 55:8-9, Isaiah himself uses the word olam and it is translated 'everlasting', and for ever and ever', even 'world without end', but it is understood to mean - time unseen, or an age yet to be revealed or detemined, a time relating to God's determination. Can you see the difference?
C
can you see that God is outside time and you are trying to apply your incredibly limited miniscule and pathetic intellect to divine eternal verities
C
Sometimes cup, you are well meaning, but blinded by your own a prioris. You depend so heavily on Greek and Hebrew, neither of which you truly understand. You want to believe in the annihilation of the wicked, that's find, but every time you venture into the Greek and Hebrew you weaken your argument. It's fine to exegete the English, even the KJV. And then, this "Platonic" thing. Whenever you run up against something you disagree with, you label it as Platonic. Would you be surprised to hear that you often use the Platonic method in your argument? You need to define what you mean when you use that term.
C
That's how Liddel & Scott define it; 'age-lasting', aionios is only 'ever-lasting, eternal' in a Platonic sense, that's on p.25. The Seventh Edition. An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon - Liddel & Scott.
Now they are correct as Plato in fact was the first person to use this word aionios, it is his word.
Now they are correct as Plato in fact was the first person to use this word aionios, it is his word.
S
Can anyone tell me what the heart of God is (right now) towards Tiger Woods? As believers we should know the heart of God. Tiger Woods is a sinner and what is God's heart toward sinners? Is God's heart full of grace and mercy because Christ paid for his sins or is it condemn and judge because he is guilty and should have known better? If my attitude and heart toward that man is not one of grace and mercy then I do not have the heart of God even though I am a born again Christian. Does my love think evil of that man and want to make him pay or put him before a firing squad (figure of speech)?
I bet you, that there are some right here on this site (especially a scorned woman) that think he is a no good scoundrel that deserves everything he gets. Just think what it would be like for us if we got everything we deserved as sinners because God decided to withhold His mercy and grace and left us to our flesh and old sin nature to work it out. What would it be like if God decided not to be a present help in the time of need and there was no throne of grace that could be approached to obtain mercy and no blood to cover a multitude of sins? We would have to go back under the law and stone the man for his adultery. I want the heart of God, DO YOU? I want to see this man, who is a sinner, through the eyes of Calvary.
I bet you, that there are some right here on this site (especially a scorned woman) that think he is a no good scoundrel that deserves everything he gets. Just think what it would be like for us if we got everything we deserved as sinners because God decided to withhold His mercy and grace and left us to our flesh and old sin nature to work it out. What would it be like if God decided not to be a present help in the time of need and there was no throne of grace that could be approached to obtain mercy and no blood to cover a multitude of sins? We would have to go back under the law and stone the man for his adultery. I want the heart of God, DO YOU? I want to see this man, who is a sinner, through the eyes of Calvary.
S
Are you upset because something applies to you? Carpetmanswife (Denise) has a beautiful heart. My post had nothing to do with her or anyone specifically, it was about our attitude toward a man that is a sinner. If that post did not apply to you then there is nothing to be upset about. Do you differ with the heart of God being full of mercy and grace toward sinners? Do you see men like 'Tiger' being anything more than a sinner in need of the grace of God? Shouldn't our understanding and attitude toward sinners be always one of grace and mercy because Christ laid His life down for sinners? If you agree with the heart of God I do not know why you would be upset and accuse me of being quick to judge, but if what's in your heart make you angry then your heart needs to be established in grace.
L
The meaning of "for ever and ever" is a new angle for me on the Hell topic, but i do find it interesting that the word translated Hell is very commonly also translated in other places grave, or could be. Im very interested to know what God says about the subject, we all know He's just and whatever the true situation is he is completely justified, either way i dont want to be on His bad(not a good word to discribe it) side when all is said and done! I too did a study on this subject a few years back and will revisit my notes, God seems to be bringing the topic up lately and bringing it to my attention... Very cool subject, im keen to get a bit more in depth with it!
- Status