ETERNALLY SECURED IN HIM

[Galatians2-20]

In what way do you see "faith" as being a "condition" in the sinner to attain, maintain and keep his salvation? How can you be sure that you meet the "condition" to end up saved?

If you remove faith as the prerequisite of salvation, then - because Christ died for the forgiveness of all sin (see Romans 5)- you have no choice but to embrace Universalism, the notion that all will be saved and none will perish.

As I stated earlier, grace & faith are two distinct yet inseparable manifestations of the love of God. Grace is the manifestation of God's love toward man while faith is the manifestation of God's love in man toward God.

 

[tribesman]

If you remove faith as the prerequisite of salvation, then - because Christ died for the forgiveness of all sin (see Romans 5)- you have no choice but to embrace Universalism, the notion that all will be saved and none will perish.

As I stated earlier, grace & faith are two distinct yet inseparable manifestations of the love of God. Grace is the manifestation of God's love toward man while faith is the manifestation of God's love in man toward God.

Your fallible logic does not hold water. Your statements are not accurate in the light of all scripture on the matter. There are NO conditions for salvation in the sinner - at all. ALL conditions for the salvation of lost, doomed and miserable sinners were fulfilled in the person and work of Christ alone. All regenerate souls know this. All regenerate souls believes the gospel of salvation conditioned SOLELY on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ. All regenerate souls have counted all their own seeking to establish their own righteousness as useless dung. No universalism here! God has elected a people unto Himself. Some, not all, will be saved. This is clear from scripture. But all who are saved are saved because of nothing in themselves. All that they possess (including faith) being gifts from God. Fruit of saving grace NOT condition/s to attain or maintain salvation! Arminians, such as yourself, ignorantly confuses fruit with condition. And you have not yet answered my question to you by the way.

Rom.3

1. [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1John.2

1. [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1John.4

1. [10] Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[newbirth]

Your fallible logic does not hold water. Your statements are not accurate in the light of all scripture on the matter. There are NO conditions for salvation in the sinner - at all. ALL conditions for the salvation of lost, doomed and miserable sinners were fulfilled in the person and work of Christ alone. All regenerate souls know this. All regenerate souls believes the gospel of salvation conditioned SOLELY on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Christ. All regenerate souls have counted all their own seeking to establish their own righteousness as useless dung. No universalism here! God has elected a people unto Himself. Some, not all, will be saved. This is clear from scripture. But all who are saved are saved because of nothing in themselves. All that they possess (including faith) being gifts from God. Fruit of saving grace NOT condition/s to attain or maintain salvation! Arminians, such as yourself, ignorantly confuses fruit with condition. And you have not yet answered my question to you by the way.

you have to receive the word.....and you have to do the word.....if you are hungry and someone gives you food ....if you do not eat the food will it satisfy your hunger?? or better yet if that someone eats the food or you ...will that satisfy your hunger???

James 1:21-23King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

 

[tribesman]

you have to receive the word.....and you have to do the word.....if you are hungry and someone gives you food ....if you do not eat the food will it satisfy your hunger?? or better yet if that someone eats the food or you ...will that satisfy your hunger???

James 1:21-23King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

To do what is due for such situation is then a fruit of salvation, it is not something that is done to earn salvation, or to prove to God that I am saved. The motivation is not to do good in order to hopefully get something, but to do good out of gratitude because I already have that something. Can you see and understand the difference? Or are you still going about to establish your own righteousness, being ignorant about the righteousness of God, being revealed in the gospel?

 

[Jenning]

Good words Pastor Jenning!!!

If the enemy can get us thinking wrong thoughts he will have won., We need to know the thoughts of God and we find that in His Word. No wonder He continually instructs us to know, read, and hear the Word of God continually. Faith comes by hearing and hearing and hearing over and over again.,. Not just having heard but hearing now and to keep on hearing. Meditate means to hear it and mutter it even. Knowing the truth sets us free indeed., from doubts and fears. amen!

Having our hearts established by grace.... Hebrews 13:9 We cannot save ourselves nor can we keep ourselves. Amen. Looking to Jesus the One Who began our faith and will go with us to grow our faith and He is the Finisher of our faith. We are covered!! Amen.

O Yea. AMEN

 

[Jenning]

knowing that He has bought me and paid for me in full is not any kind of excuse to go on living in sin, but reason to make every effort to turn away from it for unspeakable gratitude, the sake of His name and the honor of His purchase

You nailed it Sir

 

[newbirth]

In Eph 2:8, the "through faith", is not man's faith, but the faithfulness of Christ's obedience to go to the cross. Gal 2:16,Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Jesus's faith, not mans.

it is the type of faith ...the same faithfulness and obedience of Christ...you have to take up your cross daily and walk in faith and obedience.....
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[newbirth]

To do what is due for such situation is then a fruit of salvation, it is not something that is done to earn salvation, or to prove to God that I am saved. The motivation is not to do good in order to hopefully get something, but to do good out of gratitude because I already have that something. Can you see and understand the difference? Or are you still going about to establish your own righteousness, being ignorant about the righteousness of God, being revealed in the gospel?

every time I write about doing the word(work of faith).... someone is saying I am trying to earn salvation...we are saved by grace through faith...and faith without works is dead...so now you are telling me my work of faith is going about to establish my own righteousness???
don't argue with me ...I am speaking after James.....it is he who said be a doer of the word or you are deceiving yourself

 

[tribesman]

every time I write about doing the word(work of faith).... someone is saying I am trying to earn salvation...we are saved by grace through faith...and faith without works is dead...so now you are telling me my work of faith is going about to establish my own righteousness???
don't argue with me ...I am speaking after James.....it is he who said be a doer of the word or you are deceiving yourself

There is no argue with James. As he and Paul are in agreement. Now I want to know (if you claimed to be saved) how you know that you are saved or not? If you say that you are saved, how do you know that you maintain your salvation well enough? And where you look for assurance of your salvation? Let's all hear it from you now.

 

[newbirth]

There is no argue with James. As he and Paul are in agreement. Now I want to know (if you claimed to be saved) how you know that you are saved or not? If you say that you are saved, how do you know that you maintain your salvation well enough? And where you look for assurance of your salvation? Let's all hear it from you now.

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 1:6

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 3:9-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

 

[Butch5]

In what way do you see "faith" as being a "condition" in the sinner to attain, maintain and keep his salvation? How can you be sure that you meet the "condition" to end up saved?

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (Joh 20:31 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

In Eph 2:8, the "through faith", is not man's faith, but the faithfulness of Christ's obedience to go to the cross. Gal 2:16,Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ. Jesus's faith, not mans.

There's another way to understand that statement that aligns more readily with Scripture. The Christian faith, the Gospel message, is the Faith of Jesus Christ. Since Paul's argument in Gal 2 is justification through faith vs. works of the Mosaic law and which one justifies, the context lends itself to the faith of Jesus Christ being the Gospel message, not Jesus having faith in something or someone for someone else.

 

[tribesman]

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 1:6

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 3:9-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Quoting scriptures you do when addressed in person. But use your own words when you subtly accuse others in your many such posts. So, no answer yet to my question. How do you practically know that you are in right standing with God? How do you know that you maintain a right standing with God? You boast yourself in how loving you are and how free of sin you are, how holy your walk is and how well you keep all the commandments without any fault? How do you do it? You look to the law and say "oh, this and that I have kept"? Where do you look for your assurance of salvation? Let's see if you can man up and answer these simple, yet crucial, questions in your own words. Or not.

 

[Butch5]

Quoting scriptures you do when addressed in person. But use your own words when you subtly accuse others in your many such posts. So, no answer yet to my question. How do you practically know that you are in right standing with God? How do you know that you maintain a right standing with God? You boast yourself in how loving you are and how free of sin you are, how holy your walk is and how well you keep all the commandments without any fault? How do you do it? You look to the law and say "oh, this and that I have kept"? Where do you look for your assurance of salvation? Let's see if you can man up and answer these simple, yet crucial, questions in your own words. Or not.

I've gone through the thread and read all of Newbirth's posts, I don't see where he made any of the claims you're suggesting here.

These same questions could be asked of your position. You asked how does he know he's in right standing with God, what is right standing with God?

 

[forsha]

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (Joh 20:31 KJV)

The life in this scripture is not referring to eternal life, but the life that God has made available that we can choose, by keeping his commandments here in this world. This life is used in many other scriptures. Believing is not the cause of our eternal life, it is the evidence that we already have eternal life. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the carnal man will not believe, and in fact can not believe.

 

[newbirth]

Quoting scriptures you do when addressed in person. But use your own words when you subtly accuse others in your many such posts. So, no answer yet to my question. How do you practically know that you are in right standing with God? How do you know that you maintain a right standing with God? You boast yourself in how loving you are and how free of sin you are, how holy your walk is and how well you keep all the commandments without any fault? How do you do it? You look to the law and say "oh, this and that I have kept"? Where do you look for your assurance of salvation? Let's see if you can man up and answer these simple, yet crucial, questions in your own words. Or not.

my friend...the only boast I have is in Christ...whatever I do it is by the grace of God ...speaking the truth does not make me good or perfect...I have to contend with my flesh I have to follow the Spirit and obey the word of God...I have to confess and ask forgiveness if I sin...I am no better than anyone else...it is by His grace I am able to stand...God promises are true and I rely on those promises....that is where my confidence is...God promised me his HS...and he promise that I would not need any man to teach me...His HS will teach me...I hold him to his Word....and he has not failed me....

 

[newbirth]

The life in this scripture is not referring to eternal life, but the life that God has made available that we can choose, by keeping his commandments here in this world. This life is used in many other scriptures. Believing is not the cause of our eternal life, it is the evidence that we already have eternal life. 1 Cor 2:14 says that the carnal man will not believe, and in fact can not believe.

you are impossible....what other life did you come believing in Christ for???if not eternal life...the belief you had yesterday does not account for your eternal life today...you have to be believing today to have eternal life today...and that which you have today does not account for tomorrow ....you must be believing tomorrow....to have eternal life tomorrow...and you must endure to the end believing...

Originally Posted by Butch5

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (Joh 20:31 KJV)

 

[tribesman]

my friend...the only boast I have is in Christ...whatever I do it is by the grace of God ...speaking the truth does not make me good or perfect...I have to contend with my flesh I have to follow the Spirit and obey the word of God...I have to confess and ask forgiveness if I sin...I am no better than anyone else...it is by His grace I am able to stand...God promises are true and I rely on those promises....that is where my confidence is...God promised me his HS...and he promise that I would not need any man to teach me...His HS will teach me...I hold him to his Word....and he has not failed me....

Clearly all your looking for assurance is within yourself and your own efforts, or the law. Where is the rest in peace of assurance of an eternity with God based on nothing else than the person and work of Christ alone? If it's not there, then you are still thinking that what makes difference between heaven and hell for you is not the person and work of Christ alone, but your own efforts to maintain what you deem to be a right standing with God, until you, at best, hopefully make it to be saved. Here is where we differ as far as east is from the west.

As for me, I will look to nothing else than to the person and work of Christ alone as for my right standing with God. I will look to the true gospel conditioned solely on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone - never to my own efforts. In this work of Christ for me I have full assurance and guarantee formy salvation. If I slip, He will put me on track again, if I fall, He will raise me up, if I err or go astray I will be corrected, and in the end be preserved in the faith. Why? Because I am His possession, bought with a price. There is no more room for going about to establish one's own righteousness the day that we have been given divine knowledge about the righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, and by the grace of God having submitting to same.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Tribesman is a noted Calvinist who does not recognize the salvation of anyone that does not agree with his Calvinistic views. It does not matter how you you answer his questions, there is no right answer because his mind has already been made up.

Not all but many Calvinists believe that if you oppose them, you are essentially a heretic and a spawn of the devil, predestined for hell rom the beginning of time. They are very stubborn & closed minded and will not accept anything outside of their very small theological box. This is the reason why John MacArthur bashes everyone that does not agree with him, condemning them all for hell yet he believes that those who agree with Calvinism could take the mark of the beast & still be saved. Basically, in their minds, they are untouchable and God would not mind if they had all of their opponents killed.

 

[newbirth]

Clearly all your looking for assurance is within yourself and your own efforts, or the law. Where is the rest in peace of assurance of an eternity with God based on nothing else than the person and work of Christ alone? If it's not there, then you are still thinking that what makes difference between heaven and hell for you is not the person and work of Christ alone, but your own efforts to maintain what you deem to be a right standing with God, until you, at best, hopefully make it to be saved. Here is where we differ as far as east is from the west.

Christ does not only make a difference...he makes you different....if you have not been made into a new creature then you are the same old person taking a ride on Christ.....you think our rest in Christ is a holiday ....rest in Christ is to cease from your works for righteousness...not to cease from his works....we now have a new boss...we labour in his vineyard not laze around while he does the work....Hebrews 4:9-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

As for me, I will look to nothing else than to the person and work of Christ alone as for my right standing with God. I will look to the true gospel conditioned solely on the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone - never to my own efforts. In this work of Christ for me I have full assurance and guarantee formy salvation. If I slip, He will put me on track again, if I fall, He will raise me up, if I err or go astray I will be corrected, and in the end be preserved in the faith. Why? Because I am His possession, bought with a price. There is no more room for going about to establish one's own righteousness the day that we have been given divine knowledge about the righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, and by the grace of God having submitting to same.

that is faith without works....you have already gone astray and will not be corrected...your actions speak of a perpetual baby...always falling ...always needing correction...no maturity from the day you have been given divine knowledge about the righteousness of God...so you stumble around in the hope that God will pick you up if and whenever you fall...so what of the things that God instructed in 2 Peter 1..that if you do them you will never fall??
[SUP]

8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: