ETERNALLY SECURED IN HIM

[Butch5]

When God quickens the carnal man (Eph 2:1-5) He not only has the Spirit dwelling within him, but he is also still a carnal man along with being a spiritual man. Paul talks about this dual personality about the born again person has a warfare going on inside of them, the Spirit warring against the flesh (carnal man). In 1Cor 3: Paul is telling them about their struggle of this warfare. They are born again of the Spirit, because Paul calls them his brethren and refers to them as babes in Christ. In 1Cor 1:2 Paul is calling them the church of God at Corinth, sanctified, and called to be saints.

This has nothing to do with your argument. The argument is that the carnal man can't believe, yet Paul's words have carnal minds believing, thus the argument your is incorrect.

 

[newbirth]

actually, that's precisely what it means.
and thank God for it!

so a man who received Christ and have been justified...for whatever reason is drawn away from Christ and sins...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

....you are telling me that person while in sin is still justified????how can he be when scripture states when sin is finished it brings forth death...

have you ever doubted God? even for a moment? have you e-v-e-r questioned why? about anything?
that is what we call imperfect faith...it isn't that Christ didn't do everything required to save sinners to the uttermost. it's that we have this treasure in earthen vessels...a dual nature, part of which is the natural man.

but you cannot serve two masters...can you???are you saying God gave you imperfect faith???Christ saved you and told you to go and sin no more...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 Corinthians 15:34

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

you obviously understand our capacity to sin, but you don't understand how deep it goes.
i don't think you understand the demands of God's Law, either.

Jesus is the author (and finsher!) of eternal salvation to those who obey Him in this:
repent and believe the Gospel.

what part of obeying Jesus involves sinning???how deep does your sins go???did not Christ purged you from them..???
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

focus: (noun) the concentration of attention or energy on something
what Tribesman is telling you is the focus of the Christian faith is not the life of the Christian.
the focus is Christ. that's why he referenced Heb 12:2. when we focus on ourselves, we tend to become either despairing (I failed!) or self righteous (look at my progress).
no matter how we may progress, it will never be enough to warrant salvation.
because salvation is not predicated on our progress, but on Christ's Perfection for us.

it is evident you and tribesman have no interest in walking as he walked..
1 John 2:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6[/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

on our best day, we are not saved based on our own obedience, because our own obedience to the Law has never been, is not, and in this life never will be perfect.
God justly demands perfection, not just in outward things, but perfection of the heart.
He cares about what motivates us. that's what Jesus is telling us in the Sermon on the Mount.

but you have to obey Christ to have salvation...
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
you have to obey to get the HS

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

we are partly unbelievers, but thank God that isn't what saves us.

God gave us a perfect faith--the perfect faith of Jesus.
that's what imputed righteousness is all about.

people do not enter into God's rest because of unbelief
Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
so it is clear all partly unbelievers are not in God's rest...

 

[Galatians2-20]

I have not said that. Here is why it's not easy to discuss with you, when you resort to assumptions leading to slander.

Tribesman, time & time again you question the salvation of everyone who disagrees with you. Please notice I did not say that you deny their salvation, rather, I said that you do not recognize their salvation which is the motivation behind your questions. There is a difference.

 

[Galatians2-20]

I have not said that. Here is why it's not easy to discuss with you, when you resort to assumptions leading to slander.

Also, no one should take my criticisms of Calvinism as a personal attack. They are not meant to be. As you well know, historically, Calvinism has a very tainted past. One that should not be ignored.

 

[forsha]

so a man who received Christ and have been justified...for whatever reason is drawn away from Christ and sins...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

....you are telling me that person while in sin is still justified????how can he be when scripture states when sin is finished it brings forth death...


but you cannot serve two masters...can you???are you saying God gave you imperfect faith???Christ saved you and told you to go and sin no more...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 Corinthians 15:34

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.


what part of obeying Jesus involves sinning???how deep does your sins go???did not Christ purged you from them..???
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


it is evident you and tribesman have no interest in walking as he walked..
1 John 2:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6[/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.




but you have to obey Christ to have salvation...
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
you have to obey to get the HS

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.



people do not enter into God's rest because of unbelief
Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
so it is clear all partly unbelievers are not in God's rest...

After Jesus has secured our eternal salvation, we do still sin. When we sin it does bring about death, but death is a separation and the death we receive when we sin separates us from our fellowship with God until we repent, but it does not separate us from the security of our eternal salvation. John 6:39 Jesus said, referring to those that he died for, that he would not lose even one of them, but raise them up at the last day.

 

[forsha]

This has nothing to do with your argument. The argument is that the carnal man can't believe, yet Paul's words have carnal minds believing, thus the argument your is incorrect.

Butch, give me the scripture that says that the carnal man, void of the Spirit, believes. Remember that when we are born of the Spirit, we do not get rid of our fleshly nature and do in fact have two natures living within us, the flesh and the Spirit. Paul talks about this as having a warfare going on inside of us, the flesh against the Spirit.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, give me the scripture that says that the carnal man, void of the Spirit, believes. Remember that when we are born of the Spirit, we do not get rid of our fleshly nature and do in fact have two natures living within us, the flesh and the Spirit. Paul talks about this as having a warfare going on inside of us, the flesh against the Spirit.

You're making the claim, the onus is one you to prove that the man can't believe.

 

[newbirth]

After Jesus has secured our eternal salvation, we do still sin. When we sin it does bring about death, but death is a separation and the death we receive when we sin separates us from our fellowship with God until we repent, but it does not separate us from the security of our eternal salvation. John 6:39 Jesus said, referring to those that he died for, that he would not lose even one of them, but raise them up at the last day.

so when you are not in fellowship with God ...who are you in fellowship with????How is it possible to be separated from God and have salvation...then your salvation is in yourself....
James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Jesus does not leave anyone...people are drawn away and they sin