Euro Spring? Brexit....

[oldhermit]

II. Victory for the Lamb, 14-18

A. “And the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.” Victory belongs not only to the Lamb but also “to those who are with him.” These are the faithful. These are those who would not give their worship to the beast. These are the overcomers. These are those who had kept their first love, who had not defiled their garments.
B. “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.” In other words, the sea of humanity.
C. “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.” The nations turn against Jerusalem, Ezekiel 16:39.
D. “For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.” This betrayal of Jerusalem by the confederate nations was the work of God who “put it in their hearts.” These nations align with Rome against Palestine and this fulfilled the words of God.
E. “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

1. The woman, the “great city” = Jerusalem
2. “Reigns over the kings of the earth.” This depiction of Jerusalem actually come out of Deuteronomy 7:17-26 where God promised Israel before they entered Canaan that they would be victorious over the kings of the earth. “He will deliver their kings into your hand so that you will make their name perish from under heaven; no man will be able to stand before you until you have destroyed them,” 24.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

Well I can see you are fully indoctrinated and have a huge pride issue. Enjoy your man made utopia. Nice copy and paste. We r done.

 

[oldhermit]

Well I can see you are fully indoctrinated and have a huge pride issue. Enjoy your man made utopia. Nice copy and paste. We r done.

Well, the material is mine and published under my name. I would have thought you would at least be bold enough to engage in the discussion. But, as you wish. I shall bother you no more.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

Well, the material is mine and published under my name. I would have thought you would at least be bold enough to engage in the discussion. But, as you wish. I shall bother you no more.[/QUOTE

appreciate that.

 

[tanakh]

Yes, I think it is historical but here is why I believe Jerusalem is Babylon.
Chapter seventeen is yet another scene in Revelation of Jerusalem's judgment but in chapter seventeen we find something that is not given in the other chapters depicting this same event. In this chapter the angel provides us with more clear definitions of the symbols.
“Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.”

1. The subject of the scene is judgment.
2. The object of the judgment is the “great harlot.” This is not the first time God uses the word harlot to describe a nation but he only seems to use this term to describe a once faithful nation. God said of Nineveh, “All because of the many harlotries of the harlot, the charming one, the mistress of sorceries, who sells nations by her harlotries and families by her sorceries. Behold, I am against you,” declares the LORD of hosts...” Nahum 3:4-5. Like Nineveh, Jerusalem became a harlot when she began to prefer other nations to Jehovah.
3. She sits upon many waters. This imagery is taken directly from Jeremiah 51:13 in which God pronounces his judgment upon the actual ancient city of Babylon. It is fitting that John uses this imagery in speaking of Jerusalem as Babylon the great. The “sitting upon many waters” is used by Jeremiah as a symbol depicting the wealth that Babylon had amassed as a result of trade and alliances with the other nations. Jerusalem is accused of doing the same thing with the allied nations of Rome.
4. She is guilty of immorality with the nations. Her desire was not in the Lord, it was to be like the nations around her. This desire seems to be amplified in the fact that “the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality” with her “and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.”

The woman sitting on the scarlet beast, 3-6
1. The woman is the harlot, Babylon, Jerusalem.
2. The beast is Rome represented in scarlet. This may be a representation of the sinful character of the beast. God has used this imagery in the past to describe the sinful conditions of Judah and Jerusalem in Isaiah 1:18. It may also be used to depict royalty.
3. The beast was full of blasphemous names. In other words, Rome was full of idolatry, irreverence and reproach against God and his people.
4. The beast had seven heads and ten horns. We will look more closely at this later from verses 9-14.
5. The woman was beautifully adorned in royal apparel. Ezekiel 16:10-14,
“I also clothed you with embroidered cloth and put sandals of porpoise skin on your feet; and I wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk. “I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. “I also put a ring in your nostril, earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. “Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, silk and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, honey and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty. “Then your fame went forth among the nations on account of your beauty, for it was perfect because of My splendor which I bestowed on you,” declares the Lord GOD.”
6. Her cup was full of abominations of unclean things and immorality, Read Ezekiel 16:15-43 and see how God described the harlotry of ancient Israel. There was no difference between the behavior of ancient Israel and Israel of the first century and the fate of both were the same. She is assigned to destruction.
7. Her name is “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” She is the source of every type of unclean behavior. (In 11:8,she is also “the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.”)
8. She is a murderous woman. She is a destroyer of the saints. More than that, she had acquired an unrelenting appetite for destroying those whom God had sent to her. Killing the saints and the prophets had become an intoxicating addiction. “I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!” Matthew 23:34-38.

I am on your wavelength with this although I am not completely sold on the idea that it is actually Jerusalem being discussed or the City being used as a symbol for the world as a whole. Egypt is used throughout the Bible to represent the world and I wonder whether Jerusalem is being used in Revelation in the same way.

 

[Dan58]

Is Brexit the next phase in setting up Rev 17:12?

I believe in a sense, yes.. After the Roman Empire crumbled, Europe would never be conquered and united under one nation again. Daniel 2:40-45 revealed the vision of 4 kingdoms; the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian and Roman empires. The final kingdom being the Roman Empire was represented by the feet of clay and iron in Daniel's vision, would be broken into pieces "The kingdom shall be divided.... It shall break in pieces...It shall stand for ever" (Daniel 2:41-44). Europe has not been united since, Napoleon and Hitler tried, but they were fighting prophecy, neither could unite Europe into one kingdom because God said it wouldn't happen.

That's why Revelation refers to 10 kings, not one. The EU cannot stand, it must fall because the bible teaches that it will never unite again, but be divided into many nations. My prediction, Brexit was the beginning of dissolving this experiment, I'm guessing France will be next... jmo

 

[crossnote]

Is Brexit the next phase in setting up Rev 17:12?

If I were to point to Scripture, I'd go here...

And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. (Dan 2:42-43)

This pseudo adhesion of the EU is beginning to fracture, it just won't stick.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

I believe in a sense, yes.. After the Roman Empire crumbled, Europe would never be conquered and united under one nation again. Daniel 2:40-45 revealed the vision of 4 kingdoms; the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greco-Macedonian and Roman empires. The final kingdom being the Roman Empire was represented by the feet of clay and iron in Daniel's vision, would be broken into pieces "The kingdom shall be divided.... It shall break in pieces...It shall stand for ever" (Daniel 2:41-44). Europe has not been united since, Napoleon and Hitler tried, but they were fighting prophecy, neither could unite Europe into one kingdom because God said it wouldn't happen.

That's why Revelation refers to 10 kings, not one. The EU cannot stand, it must fall because the bible teaches that it will never unite again, but be divided into many nations. My prediction, Brexit was the beginning of dissolving this experiment, I'm guessing France will be next... jmo

Right there with you. We are about to see amazing things.

 

[trofimus]

Is Brexit the next phase in setting up Rev 17:12?

No. Not specifically.

In another meaning, everything we do is a step closer to the end of times. So, yes.

 

[Tintin]

Well, the material is mine and published under my name. I would have thought you would at least be bold enough to engage in the discussion. But, as you wish. I shall bother you no more.[/QUOTE

appreciate that.

You are ridiculous.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

You are ridiculous.

right. glad to be ridiculous and with no tolerance for passive aggressive folks on the wrong side of right.

 

[Stephen63]

I must admit, I haven't studied it in a long time, but to guess off the top of my head, I would consider Vatican City above all others. Who else has shed more blood than her? Even after the birth of the Protestant church, she continued to kill in secret through the Jesuits, which she created.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Have you ever examined the book of Revelation from the historical vantage point?

Hello Oldhermit,

The book of Revelation should never be examined from a historical vantage point, for everything from chapter 4 onward is yet future. First of all understand that none of Revelation is of John's own interpretation but was exactly what he heard and saw in the visions. In Rev.1:19 he was told to write what he had seen, what is now and what will take place later.

What you have seen = everything that takes place that John listed from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19, which includes his vision of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and the reference to the Lord's glorified state.

What is now = is represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period.

What will take place after this = Everything that takes place after "what is now" i.e. after the church period. Therefore, everything that takes place from chapter 4 onward is yet future, the bulk of it being a detailed account of the day of the Lord, which is the fulfillment of the wrath of God.

When you apply a historical interpretation to Revelation you distort its true meaning.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Do you see Jerusalem as the capital center of the system of Babylon? Also, are you saying the ten kings are a historical reference vs one to come?

Hello SteelToedKodiak,

There are two women mentioned in Revelation, the first being the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. These symbols are the exact same symbols used in Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9-10, which God used to identify the woman of Rev.12 as representing the nation Israel. When Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven as seen in Rev.12, he goes after the woman/Israel and she's flees to that place prepared for her by God out in the wilderness where she is cared for for that last 3 1/2 years until the Lord returns to end the age (Rev.12:6, 14).

The other woman of Rev.17 & 18 is not in reference to Jerusalem and Israel and there is a very solid reason as to why she is not the city of Jerusalem. In Rev.18:21-23 the following information is presented:

"The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No worker of any trade will
ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again. The light of a lamp will never shine in
you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again."

From the Scripture above, it is obvious that once the woman--who is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth--is destroyed and no one will ever inhabit that city again. By the way, Jerusalem has not yet been a city that has ruled over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving this in formation from the angel, Rome was that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

Now regarding the city of Jerusalem, the following is presented:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

Where the woman is shown to be destroyed and never to be inhabited ever again in Rev.18, which takes place during the great tribulation period and which takes place prior to the millennial period, we have Satan being released from the Abyss at the end of the thousand years and gathering those nations collectively referred to as Gog and Magog where they surround the "camp of God's people, the city he loves" which can be none other than Jerusalem. This would demonstrate that there will be people living in the city of Jerusalem at the end of the millennial period and therefore Jerusalem could not possibly be the woman of Rev.17 & 18 which will never be in habited again.

According to prophecy, Jesus must rule from the city of Jerusalem from the throne of king David during the millennial period.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

From the Scripture above, it is obvious that once the woman--who is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth--is destroyed and no one will ever inhabit that city again.

Thanks for clarity. What is your opinion regarding what that city is? Also, do you see the 10 kings of 17:12 as something that is shaping out of or into the EU?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thanks for clarity. What is your opinion regarding what that city is? Also, do you see the 10 kings of 17:12 as something that is shaping out of or into the EU?

Regarding the woman of Rev. 17 & 18, the clues are as follows:

* The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth

At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

* The seven heads are seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits.

The woman is a city that sits on seven hills. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills.

* And upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery: Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes, and of the abominations of the earth.

Regarding this city being the mother of all prostitutes, this is speaking figuratively of spiritual immorality, meaning that she is being unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower. This would fit Roman Catholicism to a tee. For just a cursory look at what she teaches and her practices reveal that she is not the church of Christ. We can start with that Egyptian obelisk that is siting out in the middle of Peter's square and move on to queen of heaven worship which was overlaid upon Mary. As well as mother and son worship, which was transferred upon Mary and Jesus. These and the many other practices stem from the mystery religions of Babylon. Within the RCC can be found many of the Babylonian religious practices which is why she is called mystery Babylon.

* The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:

Purple and scarlet/red as can be seen above, are the exact colors worn by the Catholic liturgy.

* She was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls.

Glittering with gold and precious stones etc., is meant to refer to the luxury that she has given to herself and even more so during the tribulation period. Everything that they use in their rituals are either solid gold or overlaid with gold.

Rome with her Babylonian practices, is the woman of Rev.17 & 18 who is proclaiming to be the church of Christ, but is clearly a counterfeit. When Constantine proclaimed Christianity as the official religion of Rome, along with that came all of the pagan practices, such as queen of heaven worship, mother and son worship, which stems from Semiramis and Tammuz of which was transferred over to Mary and Jesus. Constantine was both emperor and first pope, which is why even today the office of pope still carries those two attributes of political and religious authority. According to the office of pope, all people are to be under his authority. In times past and for many a hundreds of years, the pope controlled kings and armies and that because of their so-called position of being sole representative of Christ on earth and therefore having the power to proclaim anathema's upon anyone who did not submit themselves to the pope and the RCC. The office of the pope would be doing the same today, but they do not currently have the power to inforce their position. However, when that antichrist is revealed, he will afford the pope with the power that office once held and more. She is the one who is said to be drunk with the blood of the saints and that because she will be responsible for the shedding of the blood of all she has killed in the past, as well as the blood of the great tribulation saints during that last 3 1/2 years as false prophet to the beast.

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast."


These ten will be those who are not kings/rulers, but will be appointed as kings along with the beast. The reference to them being made kings for one hour, is not referring to them being kings only for an hour, but that they will be appointed as kings in short period of time, for they are mentioned as being gathered at the end of the 3 1/2 years. Also, one could not do very much if he were king for only an hour, but go to lunch maybe Unlike the seven heads which represented a succession of seven kings with that eight king being the beast, these ten will rule concurrently with the beast and will use their power to support him.

Rome, which is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth and which sits upon seven hills and whose liturgy wears purple and scarlet and within her can be found the practices and rituals of Babylon, is the woman of Rev.17 & 18.

 

[SteelToedKodiak]

Rome, which is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth and which sits upon seven hills and whose liturgy wears purple and scarlet and within her can be found the practices and rituals of Babylon, is the woman of Rev.17 & 18.

Exact confirmation I was expecting. The idea that the black pope uses the white pope to rule the religious and political beast system is more out in the open than I've seen in the past 25 years. Jerusalem is the city they desire to occupy before their 3rd secret of fatima (name of Muhammads youngest daughter) event, the destruction of Rome and the RCC becomes a reality.

Also, the 10 kings fall in my opinion to the last half of the tribulation. But I am intrigued as this reformation of geopolitics will take time to accomplish that this Brexit and others to come are like props being placed on the stage. We haven't even begun to talk about Syria and the immigrant situation which is a large component. If you look at the territorial maps of historic Babylon, it is uncanny how the boundaries may change. The world will be rocked. Maranatha.

 

[JaumeJ]

Before devoting to much thinking on the question posed in this thread, it may behoove all to keep in mind there are twenty-eight members of the European Community.....

Is Brexit the next phase in setting up Rev 17:12?

 

[Miri]

There is a lot of speculation on the Internet about the Brexit and prophesy.
I dont understand much of it! Maybe others do.

One interesting point is that Germany and the U.K. were big influences in the EU,
with France a close second as far as influence. The U.K. had a grounding
influence over Germany and many of the smaller influencial member states took their
lead from the UK.

Now with the UK going there is speculation that Germany will become the lead player in the
EU. Germany expecially wants Russia on board, but that will be tricky to negotiate at
present. Russia is far more influencial and powerful than Germany so if they ever did join
the EU, then I should imagine Russia would want to become the major player of the EU.

I know there is lots of speculation that Russia is Magog in the bible and possibly the King of
the north.

As for UK I'm not sure I believe what is being said, that the UK, America, Isreal etc will rise
up and become the King of the south. But there is lots on the Internet about it.

Also suggestions that the true origins of the U.K. population are wrapped up somehow
in Isreal. References to traders from the Middle East visiting Britain as early as 350bc
and discovering tin mines.

As I saw a lot of speculation. Although the reference to Russia being Magog and
tied in with bible prophecy is interesting - will they join the EU in the future?
Watch this space.

 

[JaumeJ]

Once more, there were ten horns, while the European Community consists of 28 member countries. It just will not coincide with the prophesy no matter how hard one squeezes........