FAITH IS A WORK! The Deception of Eph 2:8-10
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Faith is an active working principle.
Faith works by love.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith is tied to obedience.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Faith is a walk. God counts as righteous those who walk in the steps of faith.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom_4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
That passage equates "belief, walking, and faith" all together. You cannot have one without the other.
Faith has works.
Joh_8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
All this is why James would say...
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Faith is a working dynamic, it is a complete state of reality that a true believer walks in. It is not a passive trust or mental assent. This is very simple.
Paul taught synergism.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
Workers Together - sunergeō - G4903
From G4904; to be a fellow worker, that is, co-operate: - help (work) with, work (-er) together.
Like I clearly elaborated earlier we are not the authors of our salvation, it is a work of God, but we have to be doers of the word in order for that grace of God to have an effect. Those who are not doers of thw word receive grace to no effect. No purity is produced in a professing but disobedient Christian.
Those who profess but never depart from iniquity will be rejected.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Faith works by love.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith is tied to obedience.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Faith is a walk. God counts as righteous those who walk in the steps of faith.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom_4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
That passage equates "belief, walking, and faith" all together. You cannot have one without the other.
Faith has works.
Joh_8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
All this is why James would say...
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Faith is a working dynamic, it is a complete state of reality that a true believer walks in. It is not a passive trust or mental assent. This is very simple.
Paul taught synergism.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
Workers Together - sunergeō - G4903
From G4904; to be a fellow worker, that is, co-operate: - help (work) with, work (-er) together.
Like I clearly elaborated earlier we are not the authors of our salvation, it is a work of God, but we have to be doers of the word in order for that grace of God to have an effect. Those who are not doers of thw word receive grace to no effect. No purity is produced in a professing but disobedient Christian.
Those who profess but never depart from iniquity will be rejected.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I agree with you that salvation is not contingent on us stopping sin. My question is how do you define sin. Because God is the only one who can judge that for He is the only one that can see a man's heart.
For example the person spoken about in James 5:19-20 where God talks about someone who once knew the truth and strayed away, what did he say the possibility was?
Rev 2: 4-5 Another allegory about ppl who once loved God
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Paul indicates he has to do everything he preaches,lest he himself be disqualified (I Cor 9:27)
And a famous line of Jesus, He who endures to the end shall be saved (Matt24:13)
I dont know but you but these scriptures tells me that I still have choice
For example the person spoken about in James 5:19-20 where God talks about someone who once knew the truth and strayed away, what did he say the possibility was?
Rev 2: 4-5 Another allegory about ppl who once loved God
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Paul indicates he has to do everything he preaches,lest he himself be disqualified (I Cor 9:27)
And a famous line of Jesus, He who endures to the end shall be saved (Matt24:13)
I dont know but you but these scriptures tells me that I still have choice
C
Absolutely not. Your outward sin is a sign that faithlessness already exists and is growing in your heart. If we are truly saved and believe in God's word, the word teaches us that God cares about the issues in our lives that we care about most and that He is ever working so that His will for your life will be made manifest. However, there are some things we desire that are not good for. us. There are times when we will pray and pray about something and become impatient when we don't see God's hand moving concerning the matter. We begin to doubt God or start to think that God doesn't care. It is then that we are weakest and most likely to give in to temptation. Outward sin occurs because we have selfishly decided to take matters into our own hands. This is why our sin grieves God so much.
1 Cor 10:13
"[/B]No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."
1 Cor 10:13
"[/B]No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."
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Complete heresy. You will not find anything supportive of that in the Bible unless you twist scriptures to your own destruction.
The Bible is clear that mercy is granted when sin is forsaken through repentance.
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Don't believe that verse? How about some more...
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Do you honestly believe that God has changed?
James wrote this...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Do you really believe that laying aside all wickedness is optional? That is what you are saying. You are saying very clearly that salvation is not contingent on stopping sin but it only contingent on believing something.
The Gospel to you is like a package. You just accept and trust in the package and you are saved. Forget about eveything Jesus taught about striving, few being saved, denying yourself, counting the cost, taking to the plow and not looking back, and going and sinning no more. You just throw all that out the window and probably think that it would be nice to do all that but it doesn't really matter. It really blows my mind how people can seriously believe such nonsense when they have the Bible right in front of them.
I mean Jesus said,
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
What do you do with that statement? Just ignore it? Pretend Jesus didn't say it or something?
What about this verse.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
What does that mean? It sure doesn't look optional to me.
Salvation not contingent on stopping sin? What is salvation to you? A wrath protection cloak you put on while you keep sinning?
Salvation to me is this...
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Being redeemed and made pure is salvation.
Being set free from the bondage of sin.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Being set free from the law of sin and death by abiding in Christ.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
You're not set free to remain in bondage, that does not make sense. Israel wasn't delivered from bondage in Egypt to remain in Egypt.
Look at the Prodigal Son.
He came to himself in the pig pen.
Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
He then left the pig pen.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
He then confessed his sin. He wasn't still doing it. The father then restored him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Do you honestly believe that the Prodigal Son could have stayed in the pig pen and that the father would have clothed him with the robe, ring and shoes. Be honest with yourself.
Forsaking sin has everything to do with salvation and forgiveness.
Jesus didn't save a blind man from his blindness and leave him still blind.
Come on. Use your mind.
Read the bible.
Rom 3:
21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 10:
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Salvation is not contingent on stopping sinning, salvation is contingent on believing on the savior from sin, Jesus Christ.
That is not "complete heresy". It is truth.
God does not like sin, He does not want us to sin, the bible is loaded with scripture telling us what to do and what not to do. We are to become Christ-like in our walks.
But again, a Christian's salvation is by faith. When you act on Rom 10:9, you are saved. We do not earn salvation by works, nor do we keep it by works. We receive it by faith, and it is born within us. It is seed. All people who have acted on Rom 10:9 are saved, and have eternal life.
God bless.
Rom 3:
21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 10:
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Salvation is not contingent on stopping sinning, salvation is contingent on believing on the savior from sin, Jesus Christ.
That is not "complete heresy". It is truth.
God does not like sin, He does not want us to sin, the bible is loaded with scripture telling us what to do and what not to do. We are to become Christ-like in our walks.
But again, a Christian's salvation is by faith. When you act on Rom 10:9, you are saved. We do not earn salvation by works, nor do we keep it by works. We receive it by faith, and it is born within us. It is seed. All people who have acted on Rom 10:9 are saved, and have eternal life.
God bless.
C
They don't seem to realize that God has already provided the means for us to stop sinning. Neither you or I are capable of resisting the temptations of the flesh in and of our own strength because to do so is to fight against our own sense of self.
However, if you read Romans 8 we find that those who abide in God's presence by walking in the Spirit need not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. God's presence is the escape from temptation spoken of in 1 Corinthians 10:13. This is why prayer, fasting, worship, bible study and the like are so important not because these things can save us in and of themselves but rather because they are the means in which we are able to stay connected to God's presence.
However, if you read Romans 8 we find that those who abide in God's presence by walking in the Spirit need not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. God's presence is the escape from temptation spoken of in 1 Corinthians 10:13. This is why prayer, fasting, worship, bible study and the like are so important not because these things can save us in and of themselves but rather because they are the means in which we are able to stay connected to God's presence.
C
You are absolutely correct. But are you aware that the bible also teaches that not only did Christ die so that our sins might be forgiven us thus making us clean but also that he restored right fellowship between God and men thus giving us access to the means in which we can stay clean (God's presence)?
C
Tommy & Skinski seem to be on the same page with one another. While my views are somewhat close to theirs, there are obvious distinctions. I'm somewhat curious as to the background of their theological perspective. I have a pretty good idea already however, there's always a chance that I could be wrong. I won't get into that here for obvious reasons however, if you two could send me a private message, I'd appreciate it. I'm simply curious to see if my instincts are correct. No need to worry though, I think it's safe to say that we are on the side of things.
You responded with that to this, "Salvation is not contingent on stopping sinning, salvation is contingent on believing on the savior from sin, Jesus Christ."
That is a little worrying because when shroom says "believe" it is in the context of a mental acknowledgement in a provision that Jesus Christ has provided. That is most certainly not true.
One of the greatest errors within the church system is the way the cross is viewed. It is commonly taught that the death of Jesus on the cross was a substitutionary sacrifice in the sense that Jesus was punished in their place. Added to this is the a dangerous twist on Romans 3 and 4 where they teach that the righteous obedience of Jesus is reckoned to the sinners account.
Martin Luther called this the blessed exchange, it is also known as the great exchange or double imputation. This teaching practically throws out everything Jesus taught and instead of man being reconciled to God it has God reconciling Himself because He now views man through a Jesus filter. It basically reverses the entire Gospel. Instead of the Gospel being the power of God unto salvation wrought through the purity of heart being produced in a believer, the Gospel becomes a legal work whereby mans position "legally" is changed before God. Thus no actual purity is wrought in the professing believer. It is a deadly teaching.
Satan knows that the only way to approach God and be reconciled is through a genuine repentance and faith. The genuine repentance is where the will of man is broken on the rock of Christ which makes submission possible, faith is the working dynamic of trust which puts the influence of God to use within the soul.
It is God that works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure but it is only through being broken in repentance that a soul will yield to that work.
Satan has totally perverted this teaching and the entire Gospel message has been completely redefined. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone teaching the truth, there are a few but they are few and far between.
Jesus death on the cross was a sin offering. His sacrifice is the propitiatory offering which is applied to past sins only. Romans 3:25 is clear on this, it does not cover future sins. This is because this sin offering is not made so people can keep on sinning. The blood cleanses an individual of all sin only if they are walking in the light (1Joh 1:7). They are then clear before God to serve Him acceptably (Heb 9:14).
Jesus Christ conquered death through His resurrection and this is what we share in.
The church system does not reach, as far as I can tell anywhere, that we are to die with Jesus. Paul clearly taught this in Romans 6:4-6.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
We die in repentance for the remission of sins.
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
God raises us up with Christ by His power by quickening our Spirit when we were yet dead.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
That is grace. Grace is the power of God, it is the new life in Christ. It is what Paul is speaking about here...
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
It is why Paul writes that we are set free from sin through crucifying our old man with Christ.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
It is actually a very simple message, yet it has been practically lost today.
Stopping sin has everything to do with salvation. There is no salvation if there is still bondage to sin. Mind you I am talking about willful rebellion to God here, not missing the mark in the sense of a misjudgment, misplace zeal, or some other mistake. I am talking about willful rebellion because that is a heart issue. A pure heart filled with the charity of God cleanses the outside of the cup for real.
What is taught today bears no resemblance whatsoever to what is actually taught in the Bible. The Gospel is presented as a package which people are induced to accept. The people are told they cannot obey God to an acceptable standard and thus Jesus had to obey God for them then his righteousness is transferred to them in a legal exchange. It is pure fiction and is only supported by isolating and twisting several verses like 2 Cor5:21 and Rom 3:24. The early church taught nothing like it.
The early church taught holiness. They taught repentance. They taught obedience to the Lord. They taught heart purity, love God and love your neighbour. They taught that the sin stopped.
This early message began to be corrupted as time went on and especially when Augustine entered the scene and due to his prolific writing ability and popularity gnostic dualism made inroads into Christian orthodoxy.
It was from then that "sin" really began to be accepted as some sort of indwelling substance which was present from birth. Thus instead of sin being a choice which when yielded to would bring bondage and corruption to the soul. Sin was viewed as a condition which necessitated actual sin.
This philosophy completely redefined repentance and the stopping of sin was thrown out the window.
Jesus taught that if the eye was single then the whole body would be full of light but from then on this was no longer possible because of the belief in indwelt sin as a birth defect.
Today it doesn't matter which denomination you pick, the entire theological structure is firmly established on the principle of original sin. Thus the entire Gospel message has been redefined into the context that the sin can never stop.
It is the most devious and artful satanic deception that could ever be conceived in my opinion.
Today when you strip away all the rhetoric the gospel message preached is "confess, trust and receive."
Repentance simply means confess your sinful condition (that you were born with).
Faith simply means to trust in the provision made by Jesus in the cross.
Grace is a free gift.
In the Bible repentance is a complete change of mind which produced a genuine turning of action whereby the rebellion in the heart is forsaken and thus the sin stops.
In the Bible faith is the working principle by which someone walks the walk yielding to the leading work of God on the heart.
In the Bible grace is the God's influence on our heart that He freely provides due to His graciousness, not of anything we deserve.
Yet all this is a huge pill to swallow for anyone who has been indoctrinated into the lie, especially if they have been in it for many years. To come out of it means they would have to count it all dung, just like Paul when he had to forsake his Pharisee ways. He had to tear down that old tower and begin anew on the rock of Christ.
Yet better to face reality now than at the judgement when it will be too late.
That is a little worrying because when shroom says "believe" it is in the context of a mental acknowledgement in a provision that Jesus Christ has provided. That is most certainly not true.
One of the greatest errors within the church system is the way the cross is viewed. It is commonly taught that the death of Jesus on the cross was a substitutionary sacrifice in the sense that Jesus was punished in their place. Added to this is the a dangerous twist on Romans 3 and 4 where they teach that the righteous obedience of Jesus is reckoned to the sinners account.
Martin Luther called this the blessed exchange, it is also known as the great exchange or double imputation. This teaching practically throws out everything Jesus taught and instead of man being reconciled to God it has God reconciling Himself because He now views man through a Jesus filter. It basically reverses the entire Gospel. Instead of the Gospel being the power of God unto salvation wrought through the purity of heart being produced in a believer, the Gospel becomes a legal work whereby mans position "legally" is changed before God. Thus no actual purity is wrought in the professing believer. It is a deadly teaching.
Satan knows that the only way to approach God and be reconciled is through a genuine repentance and faith. The genuine repentance is where the will of man is broken on the rock of Christ which makes submission possible, faith is the working dynamic of trust which puts the influence of God to use within the soul.
It is God that works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure but it is only through being broken in repentance that a soul will yield to that work.
Satan has totally perverted this teaching and the entire Gospel message has been completely redefined. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone teaching the truth, there are a few but they are few and far between.
Jesus death on the cross was a sin offering. His sacrifice is the propitiatory offering which is applied to past sins only. Romans 3:25 is clear on this, it does not cover future sins. This is because this sin offering is not made so people can keep on sinning. The blood cleanses an individual of all sin only if they are walking in the light (1Joh 1:7). They are then clear before God to serve Him acceptably (Heb 9:14).
Jesus Christ conquered death through His resurrection and this is what we share in.
The church system does not reach, as far as I can tell anywhere, that we are to die with Jesus. Paul clearly taught this in Romans 6:4-6.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
We die in repentance for the remission of sins.
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
God raises us up with Christ by His power by quickening our Spirit when we were yet dead.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
That is grace. Grace is the power of God, it is the new life in Christ. It is what Paul is speaking about here...
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
It is why Paul writes that we are set free from sin through crucifying our old man with Christ.
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
It is actually a very simple message, yet it has been practically lost today.
Stopping sin has everything to do with salvation. There is no salvation if there is still bondage to sin. Mind you I am talking about willful rebellion to God here, not missing the mark in the sense of a misjudgment, misplace zeal, or some other mistake. I am talking about willful rebellion because that is a heart issue. A pure heart filled with the charity of God cleanses the outside of the cup for real.
What is taught today bears no resemblance whatsoever to what is actually taught in the Bible. The Gospel is presented as a package which people are induced to accept. The people are told they cannot obey God to an acceptable standard and thus Jesus had to obey God for them then his righteousness is transferred to them in a legal exchange. It is pure fiction and is only supported by isolating and twisting several verses like 2 Cor5:21 and Rom 3:24. The early church taught nothing like it.
The early church taught holiness. They taught repentance. They taught obedience to the Lord. They taught heart purity, love God and love your neighbour. They taught that the sin stopped.
This early message began to be corrupted as time went on and especially when Augustine entered the scene and due to his prolific writing ability and popularity gnostic dualism made inroads into Christian orthodoxy.
It was from then that "sin" really began to be accepted as some sort of indwelling substance which was present from birth. Thus instead of sin being a choice which when yielded to would bring bondage and corruption to the soul. Sin was viewed as a condition which necessitated actual sin.
This philosophy completely redefined repentance and the stopping of sin was thrown out the window.
Jesus taught that if the eye was single then the whole body would be full of light but from then on this was no longer possible because of the belief in indwelt sin as a birth defect.
Today it doesn't matter which denomination you pick, the entire theological structure is firmly established on the principle of original sin. Thus the entire Gospel message has been redefined into the context that the sin can never stop.
It is the most devious and artful satanic deception that could ever be conceived in my opinion.
Today when you strip away all the rhetoric the gospel message preached is "confess, trust and receive."
Repentance simply means confess your sinful condition (that you were born with).
Faith simply means to trust in the provision made by Jesus in the cross.
Grace is a free gift.
In the Bible repentance is a complete change of mind which produced a genuine turning of action whereby the rebellion in the heart is forsaken and thus the sin stops.
In the Bible faith is the working principle by which someone walks the walk yielding to the leading work of God on the heart.
In the Bible grace is the God's influence on our heart that He freely provides due to His graciousness, not of anything we deserve.
Yet all this is a huge pill to swallow for anyone who has been indoctrinated into the lie, especially if they have been in it for many years. To come out of it means they would have to count it all dung, just like Paul when he had to forsake his Pharisee ways. He had to tear down that old tower and begin anew on the rock of Christ.
Yet better to face reality now than at the judgement when it will be too late.
The background of my perspective is that I was a double minded professing Christian for many years. I always knew something was not right in the church system because what they taught was very different to what Jesus taught. Yet I still lived in my carnality.
It was not until early last year that I came across an audio entitled "Repentance Unto Life" on youtube which was put together by a guy called Chris Hill that I was shaken to the core.
You see I was beholden to the T, U, I of the TULIP of Calvinism and I didn't even really know what Calvinism was. I had just picked up these dogmas from listening to several teachers like Paul Washer, David Eells and a few others. Yet here was Chris telling me that I had a choice and that I had to forsake my wickedness instead of God making me do it.
This led me to the Standing The Gap ministry of Mike DeSario and it was through his material that I gained the drive to actually start really digging deep into the Bible for myself.
Suffice to say that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I became extremely convicted of my wretched state which led me through a period true godly sorrow upon which I was broken on that rock that is Christ. My mind changed and I forsook my former ways.
Since then God has removed the veil from my eyes and set a fire burning inside and I continue to dig into the word growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ every day. Praise be to God because I was not nor am I worthy. I resisted the light of God for many years. It is only through the patience, grace and mercy of God that I am where I am today.
Yes I know Tommy. He was touched by Standing the Gap ministry too and was thus led to a genuine repentance. I am sure he will share his testimony if you ask.
I don't profess to know a whole lot but I can clearly see the fallacy of what is being taught within the church system and I do understand the real Gospel message. The scriptures harmonise beautifully. Thanks be to God.
It was not until early last year that I came across an audio entitled "Repentance Unto Life" on youtube which was put together by a guy called Chris Hill that I was shaken to the core.
You see I was beholden to the T, U, I of the TULIP of Calvinism and I didn't even really know what Calvinism was. I had just picked up these dogmas from listening to several teachers like Paul Washer, David Eells and a few others. Yet here was Chris telling me that I had a choice and that I had to forsake my wickedness instead of God making me do it.
This led me to the Standing The Gap ministry of Mike DeSario and it was through his material that I gained the drive to actually start really digging deep into the Bible for myself.
Suffice to say that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I became extremely convicted of my wretched state which led me through a period true godly sorrow upon which I was broken on that rock that is Christ. My mind changed and I forsook my former ways.
Since then God has removed the veil from my eyes and set a fire burning inside and I continue to dig into the word growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ every day. Praise be to God because I was not nor am I worthy. I resisted the light of God for many years. It is only through the patience, grace and mercy of God that I am where I am today.
Yes I know Tommy. He was touched by Standing the Gap ministry too and was thus led to a genuine repentance. I am sure he will share his testimony if you ask.
I don't profess to know a whole lot but I can clearly see the fallacy of what is being taught within the church system and I do understand the real Gospel message. The scriptures harmonise beautifully. Thanks be to God.
This clearly puts the true gospel message into perspective, verse by verse, truth upon truth, you cant deny it!
Those who persist in the faith alone, just believe, no real repentance gospel are denying the word of God, and its purpose to cleanse and purify the heart and soul of manking who chose to sin, disobey God, and seek thier own way to the cross.
There is only one way to the cross, Jn 14-6, and its explained well by Skinski above!
Jeusus diddnt call us to confess and trust, He called up to repent and obey, its that simple, no magic provision, no covering, but power over sin and darkness, through His shed blood. Santification isnt gradual, its instant, through proper repentance and faith, not taught in the system today. 2 Corin 7-10.11.
Those who persist in the faith alone, just believe, no real repentance gospel are denying the word of God, and its purpose to cleanse and purify the heart and soul of manking who chose to sin, disobey God, and seek thier own way to the cross.
There is only one way to the cross, Jn 14-6, and its explained well by Skinski above!
Jeusus diddnt call us to confess and trust, He called up to repent and obey, its that simple, no magic provision, no covering, but power over sin and darkness, through His shed blood. Santification isnt gradual, its instant, through proper repentance and faith, not taught in the system today. 2 Corin 7-10.11.
Again you are taking scripture out of context, you are telling me you can be a washed and cleansed fornicator, adulterer, molester, drunk, homosexual? Those who are washed and cleansed, through real repentance and faith, 2 Cor 7-10-11, DO not continue in these sins, they have come from the dark to the light, and are walking cleansed and purged of all dead works, to serve the living God!
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
If you believe one can live like the devil and stil be washed and cleansed, then you have bought into the lie from the beginning as satan told Eve, you will not die!
The soul who sins shall die! Repent and seek the mercy of God, if you are still in your sins, and believing the lie! Acts 3-19.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
If you believe one can live like the devil and stil be washed and cleansed, then you have bought into the lie from the beginning as satan told Eve, you will not die!
The soul who sins shall die! Repent and seek the mercy of God, if you are still in your sins, and believing the lie! Acts 3-19.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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Originally Posted by Crossfire
Tommy & Skinski seem to be on the same page with one another. While my views are somewhat close to theirs, there are obvious distinctions. I'm somewhat curious as to the background of their theological perspective. I have a pretty good idea already however, there's always a chance that I could be wrong. I won't get into that here for obvious reasons however, if you two could send me a private message, I'd appreciate it. I'm simply curious to see if my instincts are correct. No need to worry though, I think it's safe to say that we are on the side of things.
I come from the system of lies, and came to repentance and faith after waking up to the truth, out of the church system, my testimony is very long so I will spare you all the details, but I had to throw out every teaching and commentary today, and start afresh, I was repenting from a liFe of porn, adultery, drunkenness, much idolatry, coveting, lust, etc,,,, I proclaimed to be Christian during this time, as my pastors told me all was well, Jesus did it all, you are positionally righteous in Him, and the wretch of all sinners, just like Paul, I was also told I was born a poor helpless sinner, and will be that until I die and am redeemed, MUCH layers and layers of error.
I lived of the world and of the kingdom so I thought, and met Mike Desario about 9 months ago, did alot of reading of his materials, and finally found a man, who boldly professed the truth, no nonsense, to the point, no fluff that is coming out of the system today.
I wholeheartedly agree with Skinski and his teachings because they come right from the word of God, which came alive to me the moment I woke up, repented, and forsook all my known vile sins against God, I woke up to truth, fled the false system, and all the worldly attractions, I count them all garbage compared to following Jesus on the narrow road!
I now live an obedient life unto Him, cleansed and purged of all my wrong doings, still a work in progress, and make mistakes in my zeal and passion, but can now see the huge difference between the church today, and what the early church taught, its like night and day.
I will not mix any reformed teachings into the pure word of God, and standingthegap.org was a huge blessing to me, because it gave me hope and a new desire to seek truth, and what the early church taught, before the Gospel was polluted by the reformation and the host of false teachers.
Follow Jesus not man, I am not a Calvinist, armenist, Wesleian, etc,, Just a humble follower of Christ, hungering and thirsting for righteousness and truth, I don't know it all, just scratching the surface here, I have fallen into many errors since I came out of the organized church, but God has been faithful, as I diligently seek Him, with all my heart and soul, all the glory and honor goes to Him alone, for allowing me the privilege to repent, and prove this with my deeds, 2 Cor 7-11.
The sin stops in repentance, or the heart hardens!
Tommy & Skinski seem to be on the same page with one another. While my views are somewhat close to theirs, there are obvious distinctions. I'm somewhat curious as to the background of their theological perspective. I have a pretty good idea already however, there's always a chance that I could be wrong. I won't get into that here for obvious reasons however, if you two could send me a private message, I'd appreciate it. I'm simply curious to see if my instincts are correct. No need to worry though, I think it's safe to say that we are on the side of things.
I come from the system of lies, and came to repentance and faith after waking up to the truth, out of the church system, my testimony is very long so I will spare you all the details, but I had to throw out every teaching and commentary today, and start afresh, I was repenting from a liFe of porn, adultery, drunkenness, much idolatry, coveting, lust, etc,,,, I proclaimed to be Christian during this time, as my pastors told me all was well, Jesus did it all, you are positionally righteous in Him, and the wretch of all sinners, just like Paul, I was also told I was born a poor helpless sinner, and will be that until I die and am redeemed, MUCH layers and layers of error.
I lived of the world and of the kingdom so I thought, and met Mike Desario about 9 months ago, did alot of reading of his materials, and finally found a man, who boldly professed the truth, no nonsense, to the point, no fluff that is coming out of the system today.
I wholeheartedly agree with Skinski and his teachings because they come right from the word of God, which came alive to me the moment I woke up, repented, and forsook all my known vile sins against God, I woke up to truth, fled the false system, and all the worldly attractions, I count them all garbage compared to following Jesus on the narrow road!
I now live an obedient life unto Him, cleansed and purged of all my wrong doings, still a work in progress, and make mistakes in my zeal and passion, but can now see the huge difference between the church today, and what the early church taught, its like night and day.
I will not mix any reformed teachings into the pure word of God, and standingthegap.org was a huge blessing to me, because it gave me hope and a new desire to seek truth, and what the early church taught, before the Gospel was polluted by the reformation and the host of false teachers.
Follow Jesus not man, I am not a Calvinist, armenist, Wesleian, etc,, Just a humble follower of Christ, hungering and thirsting for righteousness and truth, I don't know it all, just scratching the surface here, I have fallen into many errors since I came out of the organized church, but God has been faithful, as I diligently seek Him, with all my heart and soul, all the glory and honor goes to Him alone, for allowing me the privilege to repent, and prove this with my deeds, 2 Cor 7-11.
The sin stops in repentance, or the heart hardens!
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F
Jesus preached a works salvation plain and simple!
Work = To do something.
Jesus taught that YOU MUST be a doer of the word.
This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?
Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.
This is why Paul wrote...
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.
God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Look at what James wrote...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.
Look at Noah...
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah was saved by grace through faith. God was the author of his salvation from the flood. The warning and instructions on building the ark was God's grace but Noah had to WORK TOGETHER with God, Noah had to be a DOER of the word. Otherwise he would have received the grace of God in vain.
It is very simple.
Let's look at the subject verse again...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are saved by grace and not of ourselves. That means that we are not the authors of our own salvation, it is God leading the way. It is not something we do apart from God. It is by faith that we put to use the divine influence on our hearts to use.
What are the works Paul is talking about? He is talking about works done apart from God. Cleaning the outside of the cup apart from an internal cleansing.
Look at what the Jews did...
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
The Jews were boasting in the cleansing of the outside of the cup. Look at what Jesus said to them...
Mat_23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleansefirst that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
True righteousness is from the inside out not the outside in. That is why salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. You cannot purify the cup by works done apart from the grace of God.
Look at what Paul wrote right before Rom 2:17.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
It is the law on the heart that counts because that will produce good fruit. The external appearance can be deceiving because the underlying motive can be corrupt just as it was with the Pharisees. They sought to appear righteous but were inwardly filthy.
Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
The Pharisees boasted in the works of the law done apart from a true faith.
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
That is why Paul wrote...
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
But instead would say...
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Righteousness is from the inside out not the outside in. It is a very simple teaching.
Here is another very important scripture...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The law is established in the heart through faith. It is through this faith that we walk after the Spirit fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This is because a faith that works by love fulfills the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Which is why Jesus taught this...
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Love fulfills the law. True righteousness come by a faith that works by love. The root is pure.
Jesus said this...Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Out righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees when we walk by a faith that works by love having the law established in our hearts and we thus fulfill the righteous requirements of the law by the Spirit.
The letter kills but the Spirit brings life.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Again let's look at our subject passage...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When we are workers together with God by faith our hearts are purified. This is why it says this in Acts.
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
It is also why Peter wrote this...
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
It is the pure in heart that will see God.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The vast majority of professing Christianity has no idea about what I have written and they see grace as some provision or package which they simply trust in to be saved. They throw works out the window.
Jesus preached WORKS.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
It is about works done in faith. Those are the works Abraham did. That was the faith that God counted Abraham righteous by.
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
It is the same with us.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
True believers are doers of the word. They walk after the Spirit with their old man crucified with Christ, they are born again and they are not sinning.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
You do not fulfill the righteous requirements of the law by sinning every day in thought word and deed every day. Salvation is not some package, provision, or covering which you trust in to make up for your continued sin. That is a lie of Satan.
Jesus gave Himself for us that we be made pure.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
He did not give Himself that we remain sinners. The false teachers today twist scriptures like Rom 7:15, 1Tim 1:15, and 1Joh 1:8 and Eph 2:8-10 right out of their context to keep the people deceived and in bondage to their sin. Don't be deceived!
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Which are you sowing to?
There think very carefully about what Paul is teaching here and do not buy into what all the false teachers are telling you.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace is the divine influence on the heart which God freely gives us. We cannot earn it, God is the author of our salvation, it is God that quickens us.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
We don't quicken ourselves. We put this grace to use through an active obedient faith. We walk in the light as He is in the light which means we stop sinning. We walk in purity and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If you are not walking in the light then you are not cleansed. A true repentance allows a true conversion to take place where the sin stops. Then the Lord will come and regenerate you and your sins will be forgiven. Not before.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
It is a very simple message.
Work = To do something.
Jesus taught that YOU MUST be a doer of the word.
This passage is one of the most abused and least understood passages in the Bible.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace = Charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
Grace is indeed a free gift but what sort of gift is it?
Grace is the divine influence on the heart of man and grace teaches us.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
The grace of God BRINGS salvation when we put it to use through faith. Faith is the working principle that activates grace in our lives. Faith is the DOING part or the WORK that we must do.
This is why Paul wrote...
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
You see we are to WORK TOGETHER with God otherwise we receive grace to NO EFFECT.
God is the AUTHOR of salvation not us, yet we MUST OBEY and yield to the working of the author in us. If you don't obey you will not be saved.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Look at what James wrote...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
You are a doer of the word when you are obeying God thus being a worker together with Him.
Look at Noah...
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah was saved by grace through faith. God was the author of his salvation from the flood. The warning and instructions on building the ark was God's grace but Noah had to WORK TOGETHER with God, Noah had to be a DOER of the word. Otherwise he would have received the grace of God in vain.
It is very simple.
Let's look at the subject verse again...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are saved by grace and not of ourselves. That means that we are not the authors of our own salvation, it is God leading the way. It is not something we do apart from God. It is by faith that we put to use the divine influence on our hearts to use.
What are the works Paul is talking about? He is talking about works done apart from God. Cleaning the outside of the cup apart from an internal cleansing.
Look at what the Jews did...
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
The Jews were boasting in the cleansing of the outside of the cup. Look at what Jesus said to them...
Mat_23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleansefirst that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
True righteousness is from the inside out not the outside in. That is why salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. You cannot purify the cup by works done apart from the grace of God.
Look at what Paul wrote right before Rom 2:17.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
It is the law on the heart that counts because that will produce good fruit. The external appearance can be deceiving because the underlying motive can be corrupt just as it was with the Pharisees. They sought to appear righteous but were inwardly filthy.
Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
The Pharisees boasted in the works of the law done apart from a true faith.
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
That is why Paul wrote...
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
But instead would say...
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Righteousness is from the inside out not the outside in. It is a very simple teaching.
Here is another very important scripture...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The law is established in the heart through faith. It is through this faith that we walk after the Spirit fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
This is because a faith that works by love fulfills the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Which is why Jesus taught this...
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Love fulfills the law. True righteousness come by a faith that works by love. The root is pure.
Jesus said this...Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Out righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees when we walk by a faith that works by love having the law established in our hearts and we thus fulfill the righteous requirements of the law by the Spirit.
The letter kills but the Spirit brings life.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Again let's look at our subject passage...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When we are workers together with God by faith our hearts are purified. This is why it says this in Acts.
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
It is also why Peter wrote this...
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
It is the pure in heart that will see God.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The vast majority of professing Christianity has no idea about what I have written and they see grace as some provision or package which they simply trust in to be saved. They throw works out the window.
Jesus preached WORKS.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
It is about works done in faith. Those are the works Abraham did. That was the faith that God counted Abraham righteous by.
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
It is the same with us.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
True believers are doers of the word. They walk after the Spirit with their old man crucified with Christ, they are born again and they are not sinning.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
You do not fulfill the righteous requirements of the law by sinning every day in thought word and deed every day. Salvation is not some package, provision, or covering which you trust in to make up for your continued sin. That is a lie of Satan.
Jesus gave Himself for us that we be made pure.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
He did not give Himself that we remain sinners. The false teachers today twist scriptures like Rom 7:15, 1Tim 1:15, and 1Joh 1:8 and Eph 2:8-10 right out of their context to keep the people deceived and in bondage to their sin. Don't be deceived!
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Which are you sowing to?
There think very carefully about what Paul is teaching here and do not buy into what all the false teachers are telling you.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace is the divine influence on the heart which God freely gives us. We cannot earn it, God is the author of our salvation, it is God that quickens us.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
We don't quicken ourselves. We put this grace to use through an active obedient faith. We walk in the light as He is in the light which means we stop sinning. We walk in purity and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If you are not walking in the light then you are not cleansed. A true repentance allows a true conversion to take place where the sin stops. Then the Lord will come and regenerate you and your sins will be forgiven. Not before.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
It is a very simple message.
OriginAL SIN, total depravity is a false teaching, right from pagaiism, distorts the whole gosple message.
The Doctrine of Original Sin can only be proven by Conjecture. NOTHING in Scripture states exclusively that the Nature of man was corrupted in Adam and then handed down to his posterity. The false teachers like to use Romans5:12 to Suggest that Sin was handed down to all men. BUT the Passage merely states that Death spread to all men, Because ALL SINNED! Placing the responsibility of the sin directly where it was intended to be placed. On the free will choice of man to CHOOSE to Sin and take the similar path of Adam in rebellion.
When the Translators of Scripture in 1611 ran across passages like Ephesians 2:3, they found the Perfect opportunity to add support to their notion of original sin. Because if they could convince the English speaking world that this passage really did read: ‘We were all BY NATURE children of Wrath’ no one could then refute Augustine’s magnificent doctrine. However they forgot to alter Romans 2:14 where it states that the Gentiles ‘BY NATURE’ DO the things contained in the Law. Naturally the question would arise then that IF the Nature of man is evil and corrupted by sin, WHY can the Gentiles use that SAME Nature to DO what is Right?
Had they not had an axe to grind on the Original sin issue, perhaps they would have clarified the passage and pointed out the Greek intent of the word. That is Merely means ‘By long Practice, something learned, that becomes a habit, second natured!’ NOT something imbedded into man’s flesh or Inherited from Adam, but learned from his fathers by Tradition. (1Pet1:18) Thus the Original Sin argument stands on a VERY dubious foundation. Especially in the fact that the origins of the teaching can be traced directly to fourth Century Rome, and Augustine. Before that NO ONE Suggested that man was incapable of a Right Choice because his Nature was corrupt. It was his own responsibility to Repent, Turn from sins and Seek God.
However there remains some Difficult questions to address if man is Indeed NOT Born a Sinner, as the early Christians strongly affirmed. (and we resound agree!) What then Causes him to Sin? WHY is it nearly impossible to find a Good, Honest person you can trust? And WHY are people so unwilling to submit to God and accept His Truth?
First understand that Some exceptions have and do exist in the world. The False teachers would deny such a thing without question, but Scripture makes it perfectly clear. John the Baptist parents were declared Righteous and Just in God’s Site, Blameless, in Luke1:6. HOW Could they have been Right before God Prior to the coming of Jesus and under the Jewish law if they had been born Sinners, Corrupted, incapable of following God? IMPOSSIBLE!
Same with Noah and Enoch, Genesis 5:24, 6:8-9. Scripture declares them PERFECT in their generation. HOW? Conjecture would say they were somehow brought to Salvation through God’s Grace and redeemed from their sins. BUT in all honesty, WHAT SINS? The Bible doesn’t say. We MUST therefore conclude that Certain people throughout history have been exceptions to Romans3:23. Mary and Joseph would have to be included among them also. Could Jesus have been Born to a Corrupted, vile sinner, depraved from Birth? None of the theories add up unless you Reject the false notion of original sin.
Another consideration that must be addressed is the sin issue itself. Once a person has willfully chosen to sin the penalty is automatically Death. (The wages of sin is death, Rom6:23) Returning to obedience will NOT Atone for the Past Disobedience. That Requires an Atoning Sacrifice. So the fact that a person can and does DO the Right thing by choice is by NO MEANS saying that he can Save himself form his past sins by Obeying God and doing the right thing. He is perfectly capable of Doing it! BUT he Requires God’s Mercy to restore him to a right standing. Without that he remains a condemned sinner.
The Great problem in convincing men that they are born sinners, corrupted and vile unable to choose God is that once they embrace such a notion the likelihood of them Genuinely Repenting of their sins is almost completely out of the question. They will spend their entire lives wallowing in their sins THINKING that God has extended them mercy in Christ because of their ‘Sinful’ Condition of which they had no control over because they were born with it. NOW the Responsibility rests solely on God to Change their desires, make them WANT to Obey and tolerate their continued rebellion to His Truth. The Process can extend over a lifetime and no one can impugn their behavior along the way. They are merely sinners Saved by Grace and it’s up to God to bring them through to the end.
Before we process to the meat of the issue, let’s answer some simple questions for clarification. Can a person committing adultery on their spouse, STOP that relationship, break all ties with the other person and come and seek mercy from their scorn mate? OF Course they can! It happens all the time without God being a part of the mix in any way whatsoever. What does it Prove?
First that man is perfectly capable of making the right choice and Doing the right thing! Second that STOPPING the Adultery is NO Assurance of Mercy being extended. That is tentative on the Clearing of the Wrong Doing and the Re-establishment of TRUST PROVEN By Deeds. Thus the Process of Sorrow, Conviction and Fear WORKING together to Purge the Heart of this evil.
HOW THEN IS IT ANY DIFFERENT WITH GOD? WHY is HE obligated to Forgive and Restore you while you are still Carrying around a Key to the other person’s apartment? It Doesn’t make Sense. Unless some Phony Preacher has you convinced you were BORN a sinner and can’t help what you are doing and God will forgive you anyway if you just CONFESS to Him your ‘Sinfulness!’ (Hogwash!)
Apply this to any sin of addiction or lust of the flesh. Can you Stop getting Drunk, smoking dope, pigging out, lusting after things, lying, cheating, stealing, ect? Granted some addictions may not be easy to break, given the chemical nature of them, but it’s NOT Impossible. People DO IT all the time. They Clean up their act, return to sobriety and function as normal members of society. (all without God’s help!)
So unless you have already been brain-washed by the Preachers on this issue logic would have to dictate the obvious conclusion. People CAN and DO Change to the better! It DOESN’T Mean they are SAVING Themselves in doing so, BUT it DOES Mean they are FREE to Choose and capable of STOPPING Sin.
That is the Premise from Which GOD Works with man in the Redemption Process! He Calls ALL men EVERYWHERE to REPENT and Depart from their Wrong Doing, Cast aside all their filthiness and overflow of wickedness and RECEIVE with Meekness His Implanted Word that is able to SAVE
Their souls!
He Didn’t Say, ‘Admit you’re a sinner and I’ll cut you some slack!’ NO! He said, ‘PROVE Your Repentance by your DEEDS and you may find the Mercy to Seek!’
But the question remains, WHY are people so prone to sin? What happened to make them so self destructive? Sin entered the world through Adam and Death through sin. It Spread to all men, Because ALL SINNED! (Rom5:12) With a few minor exceptions, Able, Enoch, Noah, others, all men followed Adam’s example of disobedience and Chose Death in their sins. As the Scriptures so clearly indicate, the deceitfulness of sin hardens the heart and corrupts the mind, (Heb12:15-17) and brings people to destruction and ruin in their rebellion. (as happened in the Great Flood, Gen6)
If EVERY Person born from Adam was Corrupted and vile by Nature, as the false teachers claim, HOW did Able Choose to DO the Right thing and WHY was his Brother Cain told by God, that ‘Sin lays at the door, it’s desire is for you, but you should RULE OVER it!’ Gen4:7. This is the PERFECT Example of our Premise. One brother Choose the Right path and obtained WITNESS of God that he was Righteous! The other, Cain, CHOOSE to Commit Murder and was cast out as a sinner!
The Simple answer is: Why do people sin? BECAUSE they WANT TO! You are Born into a Dark, wicked world where the Light of Truth is concealed and suppressed. Raised in an environment of selfish, self-centered influence, surrounded by others who want nothing to do with God. Taught to make your way in the world by aggression and deceit because you cannot trust your fellow man and given over to unbridled lust of the flesh to indulge yourself in whatever suits your fancy. WHAT Possible Chance do you have of NOT Choosing to sin!?
But to Blame that Choice on some mysterious Nature of sin you inherited from Adam is preposterous.
You are at fault. You sin because you Enjoy it. You KEEP Sinning because the preachers are giving you the Perfect EXCUSE to wallow and still make it to heaven when you die! It’s absolute foolishness and is going to Cost you Everything in the end. To attribute your sin to some inbred nature you were born with is tantamount to Blaming God for allowing such a thing to happen in the fist place! That is the reason why so many in the world view Christianity with such disdain.
The Preachers have invented the perfect system to excuse sin and the churches are overrun with hypocrisy. Our Society is in the depths of moral decay, BUT NO ONE Wants to deal with the real issue of Personal Responsibility to God. They would rather believe a LIE and follow the multitude down the Wide Road to Destruction. If people were being called to Real Repentance toward God, as in the time of Acts, hearts would be Purged and made Pure from Sin and Christ would be honored by the witness of His Saints.
Another Question that requires explanation is: ‘What Happened when Adam Sinned?’ What Changed?
Simply the Bible says: ‘he died’ Gen2:17. But he Did Not die Physically as we all know, until some time much later in the future. Therefore this Cannot be speaking of the cessation of physical life. That would have happened nonetheless because God created all things to produce after its own kind including man. WHY then would Adam be Immortal, as some teach, until he sinned, if he had to pro-create to fill the earth.
So What does this Death indicate but a separation from God! When Adam sinned he lost his spiritual connection to God.
If infants are born dead in their sins, as the false teachers claim, why would Paul say in Romans 7:9,
‘I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came sin revived and I died.’
AND the Bible CLEARLY States in numerous passages that Children are born innocent with no knowledge of right or wrong. (Rom9:11, Ecc7:29, Duet1:39) Christ Himself likened them to the Kingdom of God!
(Matt18:24, 19:14) HOW could they be Depraved Sinners condemned to hell? Foolishness! Every Person is Born into the World with the LIGHT of God in them, John1:9. The Conscience and the ability to know and do right or wrong is in every person. We are born neutral into a darkened world.
When we grow to maturity and sin our Flesh Desires are in Control of our minds.. We become a SLAVE to Sin. (Rom6:16-18) Freedom from this bondage can only be achieved by putting to death his passions and desires in Christ (through the process of Repentance and godly sorrow for sin) and being Re-Born as a New Man in Christ Jesus, AWAKE to the Spirit, lead into all Truth. (2Cor7:10-11, Gal5:24)
Infant Baptism, Election and pre-destination just don’t add up when you take an honest look at the Truth. It was all invented to Support the Original Sin Lie and Some Preachers STILL insist that non-elect infants who die in infancy go to hell! Others will assert they are saved by some kind of Universal or Prevenient Grace extended to them. But NONE will agree with God that they are Born Innocent and unaffected by sin, Until they grow to maturity and Choose to SIN!
What Changed? Basically the Need for Atonement to Restore man’s Spiritual Connection back to God.
God Provided the Atoning Sacrifice, Gen3:15, 21, and man did the Repenting. Thus the Nature of Redemption, which Requires a Clearing of the Wrong Doing as well as a RETURN to Obedience. God Did Not COVER our sins or overlook the wrong doing. He Provided a means by which man could be Forgiven and Restored on the CONDITION of Repentance and Faith, BOTH PROVEN By Deeds!
Adam and Eve sinned because they Knew they could. The effect they had on mankind is representation. They SET the Standard of Rebellion. NOTHING was Transferred to their offspring. ‘The Son Shall Not bear the guilt of the father. The Soul who sins SHALL DIE!’ Ezk18:19-20. Man follows their Example and nothing more. He is not involuntarily made a sinner by his connection to Adam, no more than he is involuntarily made Righteousness in Christ! (Rom5:18-19) BOTH Happen by CHOICE!
The Fallacy of Original Sin has brought the entire church to ruin. Untold multitudes sit in these systems of religion today blinded to their spiritual bankruptcy, believing they are being told the Truth! The Lie is passed down through the generations and never questioned or challenged. As though Moses himself brought it down from the Mountain etched in Stone. YET the Jews NEVER Taught it, Past or Present! Neither did the early Christians, the Disciples of the Apostles! ALL the Prophets railed against it. Jesus NEVER mentioned it. NOTHING in the Bible Supports it!
However against the Great Could of Witness stands, Augustine of Rome! Who Claimed that he ALONE Knew the mind of Paul when Romans Chapter five was penned and gave us the Doctrine of Original Sin.
BUT it was Paul Who Preached a Repentance that Resulted in a Clearing of Wrong Doing and Purity of Heart! (2Cor7:10-11) Paul who said that Faith WORKED by Love, WALKED and PERFORMED Deeds of Faith! (Gal5:4, Rom4:19-22) Paul who said you Could OBEY From YOUR HEART and Be a Salve to WHO you OBEY! Rom6:15-17) It Was Paul who gave us the Purpose of the Commandment, 1Tim1:5, and doctrine which is according to godliness. (1Tim6:3)
If Faith Upholds and Establishes the Law, Rom3:31 and WALKS in the Righteous Requirements of the Law, Rom8:4, HOW Could man be Declared Righteous while he is Still Un-Righteous? (as all the Preachers insist!) HOW Could he be Double-minded and Divided in Heart, Serving Two Masters and Still be in Right Standing with God? Jesus Himself Said that these things are impossible. ‘If the light in you is Darkness, how GREAT is that Darkness!’ (Matt6:23)
BUT ALL the Preachers make Excuses for them! WHY? BECAUSE they Believe a LIE!!! Bottom Line, all the fancy talk and high sounding words removed…..They Embrace Satan’s Masterpiece of False Doctrine! They have Fashioned themselves as ‘Christians’ (2Tim3:5) and Appear to everyone as Harmless lambs, but they Speak for the Dragon and Bow to an Image created in the likeness of their sinful Flesh.
wwwstandingthegap.org
Because all have Sinned!
The Doctrine of Original Sin can only be proven by Conjecture. NOTHING in Scripture states exclusively that the Nature of man was corrupted in Adam and then handed down to his posterity. The false teachers like to use Romans5:12 to Suggest that Sin was handed down to all men. BUT the Passage merely states that Death spread to all men, Because ALL SINNED! Placing the responsibility of the sin directly where it was intended to be placed. On the free will choice of man to CHOOSE to Sin and take the similar path of Adam in rebellion.
When the Translators of Scripture in 1611 ran across passages like Ephesians 2:3, they found the Perfect opportunity to add support to their notion of original sin. Because if they could convince the English speaking world that this passage really did read: ‘We were all BY NATURE children of Wrath’ no one could then refute Augustine’s magnificent doctrine. However they forgot to alter Romans 2:14 where it states that the Gentiles ‘BY NATURE’ DO the things contained in the Law. Naturally the question would arise then that IF the Nature of man is evil and corrupted by sin, WHY can the Gentiles use that SAME Nature to DO what is Right?
Had they not had an axe to grind on the Original sin issue, perhaps they would have clarified the passage and pointed out the Greek intent of the word. That is Merely means ‘By long Practice, something learned, that becomes a habit, second natured!’ NOT something imbedded into man’s flesh or Inherited from Adam, but learned from his fathers by Tradition. (1Pet1:18) Thus the Original Sin argument stands on a VERY dubious foundation. Especially in the fact that the origins of the teaching can be traced directly to fourth Century Rome, and Augustine. Before that NO ONE Suggested that man was incapable of a Right Choice because his Nature was corrupt. It was his own responsibility to Repent, Turn from sins and Seek God.
However there remains some Difficult questions to address if man is Indeed NOT Born a Sinner, as the early Christians strongly affirmed. (and we resound agree!) What then Causes him to Sin? WHY is it nearly impossible to find a Good, Honest person you can trust? And WHY are people so unwilling to submit to God and accept His Truth?
First understand that Some exceptions have and do exist in the world. The False teachers would deny such a thing without question, but Scripture makes it perfectly clear. John the Baptist parents were declared Righteous and Just in God’s Site, Blameless, in Luke1:6. HOW Could they have been Right before God Prior to the coming of Jesus and under the Jewish law if they had been born Sinners, Corrupted, incapable of following God? IMPOSSIBLE!
Same with Noah and Enoch, Genesis 5:24, 6:8-9. Scripture declares them PERFECT in their generation. HOW? Conjecture would say they were somehow brought to Salvation through God’s Grace and redeemed from their sins. BUT in all honesty, WHAT SINS? The Bible doesn’t say. We MUST therefore conclude that Certain people throughout history have been exceptions to Romans3:23. Mary and Joseph would have to be included among them also. Could Jesus have been Born to a Corrupted, vile sinner, depraved from Birth? None of the theories add up unless you Reject the false notion of original sin.
Another consideration that must be addressed is the sin issue itself. Once a person has willfully chosen to sin the penalty is automatically Death. (The wages of sin is death, Rom6:23) Returning to obedience will NOT Atone for the Past Disobedience. That Requires an Atoning Sacrifice. So the fact that a person can and does DO the Right thing by choice is by NO MEANS saying that he can Save himself form his past sins by Obeying God and doing the right thing. He is perfectly capable of Doing it! BUT he Requires God’s Mercy to restore him to a right standing. Without that he remains a condemned sinner.
The Great problem in convincing men that they are born sinners, corrupted and vile unable to choose God is that once they embrace such a notion the likelihood of them Genuinely Repenting of their sins is almost completely out of the question. They will spend their entire lives wallowing in their sins THINKING that God has extended them mercy in Christ because of their ‘Sinful’ Condition of which they had no control over because they were born with it. NOW the Responsibility rests solely on God to Change their desires, make them WANT to Obey and tolerate their continued rebellion to His Truth. The Process can extend over a lifetime and no one can impugn their behavior along the way. They are merely sinners Saved by Grace and it’s up to God to bring them through to the end.
Before we process to the meat of the issue, let’s answer some simple questions for clarification. Can a person committing adultery on their spouse, STOP that relationship, break all ties with the other person and come and seek mercy from their scorn mate? OF Course they can! It happens all the time without God being a part of the mix in any way whatsoever. What does it Prove?
First that man is perfectly capable of making the right choice and Doing the right thing! Second that STOPPING the Adultery is NO Assurance of Mercy being extended. That is tentative on the Clearing of the Wrong Doing and the Re-establishment of TRUST PROVEN By Deeds. Thus the Process of Sorrow, Conviction and Fear WORKING together to Purge the Heart of this evil.
HOW THEN IS IT ANY DIFFERENT WITH GOD? WHY is HE obligated to Forgive and Restore you while you are still Carrying around a Key to the other person’s apartment? It Doesn’t make Sense. Unless some Phony Preacher has you convinced you were BORN a sinner and can’t help what you are doing and God will forgive you anyway if you just CONFESS to Him your ‘Sinfulness!’ (Hogwash!)
Apply this to any sin of addiction or lust of the flesh. Can you Stop getting Drunk, smoking dope, pigging out, lusting after things, lying, cheating, stealing, ect? Granted some addictions may not be easy to break, given the chemical nature of them, but it’s NOT Impossible. People DO IT all the time. They Clean up their act, return to sobriety and function as normal members of society. (all without God’s help!)
So unless you have already been brain-washed by the Preachers on this issue logic would have to dictate the obvious conclusion. People CAN and DO Change to the better! It DOESN’T Mean they are SAVING Themselves in doing so, BUT it DOES Mean they are FREE to Choose and capable of STOPPING Sin.
That is the Premise from Which GOD Works with man in the Redemption Process! He Calls ALL men EVERYWHERE to REPENT and Depart from their Wrong Doing, Cast aside all their filthiness and overflow of wickedness and RECEIVE with Meekness His Implanted Word that is able to SAVE
Their souls!
He Didn’t Say, ‘Admit you’re a sinner and I’ll cut you some slack!’ NO! He said, ‘PROVE Your Repentance by your DEEDS and you may find the Mercy to Seek!’
But the question remains, WHY are people so prone to sin? What happened to make them so self destructive? Sin entered the world through Adam and Death through sin. It Spread to all men, Because ALL SINNED! (Rom5:12) With a few minor exceptions, Able, Enoch, Noah, others, all men followed Adam’s example of disobedience and Chose Death in their sins. As the Scriptures so clearly indicate, the deceitfulness of sin hardens the heart and corrupts the mind, (Heb12:15-17) and brings people to destruction and ruin in their rebellion. (as happened in the Great Flood, Gen6)
If EVERY Person born from Adam was Corrupted and vile by Nature, as the false teachers claim, HOW did Able Choose to DO the Right thing and WHY was his Brother Cain told by God, that ‘Sin lays at the door, it’s desire is for you, but you should RULE OVER it!’ Gen4:7. This is the PERFECT Example of our Premise. One brother Choose the Right path and obtained WITNESS of God that he was Righteous! The other, Cain, CHOOSE to Commit Murder and was cast out as a sinner!
The Simple answer is: Why do people sin? BECAUSE they WANT TO! You are Born into a Dark, wicked world where the Light of Truth is concealed and suppressed. Raised in an environment of selfish, self-centered influence, surrounded by others who want nothing to do with God. Taught to make your way in the world by aggression and deceit because you cannot trust your fellow man and given over to unbridled lust of the flesh to indulge yourself in whatever suits your fancy. WHAT Possible Chance do you have of NOT Choosing to sin!?
But to Blame that Choice on some mysterious Nature of sin you inherited from Adam is preposterous.
You are at fault. You sin because you Enjoy it. You KEEP Sinning because the preachers are giving you the Perfect EXCUSE to wallow and still make it to heaven when you die! It’s absolute foolishness and is going to Cost you Everything in the end. To attribute your sin to some inbred nature you were born with is tantamount to Blaming God for allowing such a thing to happen in the fist place! That is the reason why so many in the world view Christianity with such disdain.
The Preachers have invented the perfect system to excuse sin and the churches are overrun with hypocrisy. Our Society is in the depths of moral decay, BUT NO ONE Wants to deal with the real issue of Personal Responsibility to God. They would rather believe a LIE and follow the multitude down the Wide Road to Destruction. If people were being called to Real Repentance toward God, as in the time of Acts, hearts would be Purged and made Pure from Sin and Christ would be honored by the witness of His Saints.
Another Question that requires explanation is: ‘What Happened when Adam Sinned?’ What Changed?
Simply the Bible says: ‘he died’ Gen2:17. But he Did Not die Physically as we all know, until some time much later in the future. Therefore this Cannot be speaking of the cessation of physical life. That would have happened nonetheless because God created all things to produce after its own kind including man. WHY then would Adam be Immortal, as some teach, until he sinned, if he had to pro-create to fill the earth.
So What does this Death indicate but a separation from God! When Adam sinned he lost his spiritual connection to God.
If infants are born dead in their sins, as the false teachers claim, why would Paul say in Romans 7:9,
‘I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came sin revived and I died.’
AND the Bible CLEARLY States in numerous passages that Children are born innocent with no knowledge of right or wrong. (Rom9:11, Ecc7:29, Duet1:39) Christ Himself likened them to the Kingdom of God!
(Matt18:24, 19:14) HOW could they be Depraved Sinners condemned to hell? Foolishness! Every Person is Born into the World with the LIGHT of God in them, John1:9. The Conscience and the ability to know and do right or wrong is in every person. We are born neutral into a darkened world.
When we grow to maturity and sin our Flesh Desires are in Control of our minds.. We become a SLAVE to Sin. (Rom6:16-18) Freedom from this bondage can only be achieved by putting to death his passions and desires in Christ (through the process of Repentance and godly sorrow for sin) and being Re-Born as a New Man in Christ Jesus, AWAKE to the Spirit, lead into all Truth. (2Cor7:10-11, Gal5:24)
Infant Baptism, Election and pre-destination just don’t add up when you take an honest look at the Truth. It was all invented to Support the Original Sin Lie and Some Preachers STILL insist that non-elect infants who die in infancy go to hell! Others will assert they are saved by some kind of Universal or Prevenient Grace extended to them. But NONE will agree with God that they are Born Innocent and unaffected by sin, Until they grow to maturity and Choose to SIN!
What Changed? Basically the Need for Atonement to Restore man’s Spiritual Connection back to God.
God Provided the Atoning Sacrifice, Gen3:15, 21, and man did the Repenting. Thus the Nature of Redemption, which Requires a Clearing of the Wrong Doing as well as a RETURN to Obedience. God Did Not COVER our sins or overlook the wrong doing. He Provided a means by which man could be Forgiven and Restored on the CONDITION of Repentance and Faith, BOTH PROVEN By Deeds!
Adam and Eve sinned because they Knew they could. The effect they had on mankind is representation. They SET the Standard of Rebellion. NOTHING was Transferred to their offspring. ‘The Son Shall Not bear the guilt of the father. The Soul who sins SHALL DIE!’ Ezk18:19-20. Man follows their Example and nothing more. He is not involuntarily made a sinner by his connection to Adam, no more than he is involuntarily made Righteousness in Christ! (Rom5:18-19) BOTH Happen by CHOICE!
The Fallacy of Original Sin has brought the entire church to ruin. Untold multitudes sit in these systems of religion today blinded to their spiritual bankruptcy, believing they are being told the Truth! The Lie is passed down through the generations and never questioned or challenged. As though Moses himself brought it down from the Mountain etched in Stone. YET the Jews NEVER Taught it, Past or Present! Neither did the early Christians, the Disciples of the Apostles! ALL the Prophets railed against it. Jesus NEVER mentioned it. NOTHING in the Bible Supports it!
However against the Great Could of Witness stands, Augustine of Rome! Who Claimed that he ALONE Knew the mind of Paul when Romans Chapter five was penned and gave us the Doctrine of Original Sin.
BUT it was Paul Who Preached a Repentance that Resulted in a Clearing of Wrong Doing and Purity of Heart! (2Cor7:10-11) Paul who said that Faith WORKED by Love, WALKED and PERFORMED Deeds of Faith! (Gal5:4, Rom4:19-22) Paul who said you Could OBEY From YOUR HEART and Be a Salve to WHO you OBEY! Rom6:15-17) It Was Paul who gave us the Purpose of the Commandment, 1Tim1:5, and doctrine which is according to godliness. (1Tim6:3)
If Faith Upholds and Establishes the Law, Rom3:31 and WALKS in the Righteous Requirements of the Law, Rom8:4, HOW Could man be Declared Righteous while he is Still Un-Righteous? (as all the Preachers insist!) HOW Could he be Double-minded and Divided in Heart, Serving Two Masters and Still be in Right Standing with God? Jesus Himself Said that these things are impossible. ‘If the light in you is Darkness, how GREAT is that Darkness!’ (Matt6:23)
BUT ALL the Preachers make Excuses for them! WHY? BECAUSE they Believe a LIE!!! Bottom Line, all the fancy talk and high sounding words removed…..They Embrace Satan’s Masterpiece of False Doctrine! They have Fashioned themselves as ‘Christians’ (2Tim3:5) and Appear to everyone as Harmless lambs, but they Speak for the Dragon and Bow to an Image created in the likeness of their sinful Flesh.
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I think you like antagonizing and mocking us who are following truth, you have been given truth, you deny it, you take verses out of context, and are in favor of sin, again I am not claiming to be perfect, I could quote the whole bible to you and you would deny its truth in many areas.
IF YOU ARE STILL IN SIN SHROOM, AND HAVE NEVER REPENTED, AND LOVE THE WORLD MORE THAN GOD, then you will never understand what we are teachhing here. its that simple.
2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,
IF YOU ARE STILL IN SIN SHROOM, AND HAVE NEVER REPENTED, AND LOVE THE WORLD MORE THAN GOD, then you will never understand what we are teachhing here. its that simple.
2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,
I am not in favor of sin, I am not antagonizing or mocking you, I do not deny truth, I do not take verses out of context.
You are preaching works righteousness. Nobody's works are good enough to get them saved. Not even yours. That is not how people get saved. People are saved by acting on Rom 10:9
God bless.
You are preaching works righteousness. Nobody's works are good enough to get them saved. Not even yours. That is not how people get saved. People are saved by acting on Rom 10:9
God bless.