False Prophets?

[LaurenTM]

With respect, i think you're adding a lot to the exchange while changing the question. The question was "what must I do for eternal life" not "what must I do to get to heaven" or "what must I do to be saved". These concepts aren't equal in the context of scripture. Also, Christ doesn't say the man is incorrect nor does he imply it's impossible to do what Christ said, but adds that the man lacks just one more piece of the puzzle: forsaking worldly lust (his riches) and following Christ.

We can not do anything to be *pardoned* (i.e. "saved") from our *sins*. It's the pardon that's the free gift to us. But *after* we are pardoned we are expected and actually told to "sin no more", which is to obey the commandments, because a sin is "to break God's commandments" as Paul says.

Whether we choose life or choose death, after we're saved, is up to us. "I set before you life and death; blessings and curses, so [YOU] choose life so that you and your children may live."

So the question in the passage wasn't about being saved from one's sins, but about eternal life; two related but completely different concepts.

you choose life when you accept Christ...I have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, sound familiar?

you are confusing the issue by inserting your own ideas with regard to law keeping

the rest of your post bears no resemblance of understanding to what PennEd posted

further, if you have your sins forgiven, you do have eternal life as no one but God through the blood of Christ actually can remove sins

a person confuses the issues when they become a law keeper and imagine they can somehow correct God when He says the law was not given for salvation, but rather to put an emphasis on sin and the desperate need of mankind for a Savior from the consequences of said sin

 

[Yahshua]

If you're saying that salvation is not receiving eternal life, then I'll take eternal life and you can keep your "salvation'.

With respect to all of our loved ones who passed away who were saved from their sin by having faith in christ, but if being saved equaled eternal life they'd still be here with us right now.

Eternal life is the promised reward at the end of days that the book of Hebrews details no one gets until all get it together. All of the saints, including Daniel on though to our loved ones who died in Christ, do not yet have eternal life until he resurrects all together and give their immortal bodies.

Right, the Law is the leaven that false prophets put in it.

Calling the thing God created for us to life by leaven? Idk I think I'll leave this alone.

 

[FreeNChrist]

With respect to all of our loved ones who passed away who were saved from their sin by having faith in christ, but if being saved equaled eternal life they'd still be here with us right now.

Eternal life is the promised reward at the end of days that the book of Hebrews details no one gets until all get it together. All of the saints, including Daniel on though to our loved ones who died in Christ, do not yet have eternal life until he resurrects all together and give their immortal bodies.

Eternal life is a certain quality of life, a quality of life that God alone possesses. Christians have eternal life because we have the One in whom is eternal life, Jesus Christ. That is our present reality, not just some hope for the future.

Calling the thing God created for us to life by leaven? Idk I think I'll leave this alone.

It wasn't created for you to live by, but to show you that you are an utter failure at trying to live by it. It reveals your sin and the fact that you are a sinner dead in your sins and trespasses. Enter Jesus stage left........

 

[Yahshua]

you choose life when you accept Christ...I have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, sound familiar?

you are confusing the issue by inserting your own ideas with regard to law keeping

the rest of your post bears no resemblance of understanding to what PennEd posted

further, if you have your sins forgiven, you do have eternal life as no one but God through the blood of Christ actually can remove sins

a person confuses the issues when they become a law keeper and imagine they can somehow correct God when He says the law was not given for salvation, but rather to put an emphasis on sin and the desperate need of mankind for a Savior from the consequences of said sin

Sounds very familiar, but just because Christ came doesnt mean people have that abundant life. They still have to *choose* life; they still have to choose to follow him, which many people do not do...though many say they do.

Christ also said, "my WORDS are spirit and life", so if Christ *said* obey the commandments for eternal life, if I follow christ - accepting his WORDS, believing him - I am to obey the commandments. Thus my believing in Christ has indeed led to life.

Again, such a strange notion that keeping God's law brings confusion. "Woe to those who call good evil and evil good".

With respect, the word "confuse" means to fuse two or more ideas together. Con-FUSE. You imply I've confused things and yet you keep fusing together salvation and law-keeping. Not once have I said "keep the law for salvation", and I've in fact specifically pulled the two ideas apart.

...but this is why understanding the law is necessary. Because if we fully understood it we would see that there are two parts to every law: the instructions to stay "right" and then the instructions to "pay" or "satisfy" when we break that law.

The reason why the law can't save is because we ALREADY broke it.

...Like if you're caught speeding, you can't then following the speed limit to "uncatch" yourself. You're already guilty. No, you must follow the 2nd part of that law that says "pay your fine" to "satisfy" judgment and make yourself "right" with the law again. AND AFTER THE FINE IS PAID you are expected and required to follow the 1st part of the law so that you dont break it again to reenter judgment.

In the case of sin, we can indeed pay for our sins ourselves but the fine is too expensive because we have to pay with our LIVES...and also, the 2nd part of the law that explains how we pay was merely a foreshadowing anyhow because animal blood could never pay for a person.

So someone else paid it for we who believe he did, saving us from the fine. BUT AFTER THE FINE IS PAID you are expected and required to follow the 1st part of the law again so that you dont break it again and once again enter judgment, needing to crucify Christ afresh and having him suffer that shame all over again.

This is why each time Christ forgave someone's sins he said "go and sin no more". Go and obey the commandments.

 

[Yahshua]

Eternal life is a certain quality of life, a quality of life that God alone possesses. Christians have eternal life because we have the One in whom is eternal life, Jesus Christ. That is our present reality, not just some hope for the future.



It wasn't created for you to live by, but to show you that you are an utter failure at trying to live by it. It reveals your sin and the fact that you are a sinner dead in your sins and trespasses. Enter Jesus stage left........

Eternal life is a quality? ...not some future hope? And the law wasn't created to be lived by? Friend we're not reading the same scriptures then. I thank you for the conversation.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Eternal life is a quality? ...not some future hope? And the law wasn't created to be lived by? Friend we're not reading the same scriptures then. I thank you for the conversation.

okie dokie smokie

 

[LaurenTM]

Sounds very familiar, but just because Christ came doesnt mean people have that abundant life. They still have to *choose* life; they still have to choose to follow him, which many people do not do...though many say they do.

Christ also said, "my WORDS are spirit and life", so if Christ *said* obey the commandments for eternal life, if I follow christ - accepting his WORDS, believing him - I am to obey the commandments. Thus my believing in Christ has indeed led to life.

Again, such a strange notion that keeping God's law brings confusion. "Woe to those who call good evil and evil good".

With respect, the word "confuse" means to fuse two or more ideas together. Con-FUSE. You imply I've confused things and yet you keep fusing together salvation and law-keeping. Not once have I said "keep the law for salvation", and I've in fact specifically pulled the two ideas apart.

...but this is why understanding the law is necessary. Because if we fully understood it we would see that there are two parts to every law: the instructions to stay "right" and then the instructions to "pay" or "satisfy" when we break that law.

The reason why the law can't save is because we ALREADY broke it.

...Like if you're caught speeding, you can't then following the speed limit to "uncatch" yourself. You're already guilty. No, you must follow the 2nd part of that law that says "pay your fine" to "satisfy" judgment and make yourself "right" with the law again. AND AFTER THE FINE IS PAID you are expected and required to follow the 1st part of the law so that you dont break it again to reenter judgment.

In the case of sin, we can indeed pay for our sins ourselves but the fine is too expensive because we have to pay with our LIVES...and also, the 2nd part of the law that explains how we pay was merely a foreshadowing anyhow because animal blood could never pay for a person.

So someone else paid it for we who believe he did, saving us from the fine. BUT AFTER THE FINE IS PAID you are expected and required to follow the 1st part of the law again so that you dont break it again and once again enter judgment, needing to crucify Christ afresh and having him suffer that shame all over again.

This is why each time Christ forgave someone's sins he said "go and sin no more". Go and obey the commandments.

so you attempt to believe you have never sinned? go and sin no more was what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery...he told her to quit her adultery...which is done by no longer doing it

however, we sin in thought, never mind deed...as Jesus also spoke of, when He stated that if a man even looks at a woman to lust after her, that man has committed adultery with her (in the eyes of God who is perfect and holy IN His perfection)

the law was not given to be kept

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, Romans 5:20

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans 3

21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP]h[/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP]i[/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3


27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3


so, how do you keep the law when no one else ever could?

you cannot add to the perfect and completed work of Christ. Salvation is not Jesus + your good works

we do not change ourselves. we are changed by the Holy Spirit inside of us as we give our lives to Christ ... daily...

no one can walk the walk Christ did. anyone who thinks they are doing that, are deceived and do not understand either the old or new testaments

and they have certainly never really understood the book of Romans either

God's law does not bring confusion and that is not what I said and anyone can go back and read my post and see that is not what I wrote

so either you misunderstand, or you may believe that if you misrepresent what I have stated, you will win an unwinnable arguement

obey all and whatever you wish...but do not bring that to the table and say it keeps us saved for it does not

how does being unable to keep the law FOR salvation suddenly change in order to KEEP salvation

you do not understand grace or how Jesus met the equivalent of our punishment in order for God to declare us not guilty if you say we must now keep what no one was ever able to keep prior to Jesus Crucifixion

do you think that Jesus died so that you or anyone could be better able to keep the law? how does that illustrate or uphold God's grace and His perfect sacrifice o our behalf?

 

[Yahshua]

so you attempt to believe you have never sinned? go and sin no more was what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery...he told her to quit her adultery...which is done by no longer doing it

however, we sin in thought, never mind deed...as Jesus also spoke of, when He stated that if a man even looks at a woman to lust after her, that man has committed adultery with her (in the eyes of God who is perfect and holy IN His perfection)

the law was not given to be kept

The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, Romans 5:20

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans 3

21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP]h[/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP]i[/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3


27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3

so, how do you keep the law when no one else ever could?

Hmm..from me saying things like "WE have already broken it" and that "we must pay with OUR LIVES" and "go sin NO MORE" you've concluded I believe I have *never* sinned? I'm not following how you've reached that conclusion about me. Look at the conclusion Paul reaches from the passage you shared:

Romans 3:31

31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

^That's how we keep the law post-Christ's gift. Our faith upholds that law. There is a sanctification process that most are unfortunately skipping. Correct, no one can be *justified* by works of the law. Such has been established numerous times. JUSTIFIED; pardoned; sins forgiven; saved.

But sanctification is another thing entirely. It's stage 2 in a 3-stage process leading to glorification.

1) Justification
2) Sanctification
3) Glorification

We can't get our new bodies of glory until we are sanctified (i.e. made perfect in our hearts; having hearts like Christ who loved God so immensely that its incredible powerful is enough to resist the temptations of this flesh; "Christ in you, the hope of glory") because otherwise it would simply be the garden of Eden all over again; people with evil in their hearts who would end up corrupting their perfect bodies yet again.

I've commented in yours to save on time. Apologies for breaking up your post.

you cannot add to the perfect and completed work of Christ. Salvation is not Jesus + your good works Christ saved us SO THAT we could do good works. Ephesians 2:10

we do not change ourselves. we are changed by the Holy Spirit inside of us as we give our lives to Christ ... daily...True. I agree. But we have to believe the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to help us obey the law and resist sinning.

no one can walk the walk Christ did. anyone who thinks they are doing that, are deceived and do not understand either the old or new testaments "Take up your cross and follow me". We're meant to follow Christ's walk. "Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit." The farmer's looking for a harvest of the same fruit he sowed in the earth, not an imitation of it. Not tares that simple look like wheat.

and they have certainly never really understood the book of Romans either

God's law does not bring confusion and that is not what I said and anyone can go back and read my post and see that is not what I wrote

so either you misunderstand, or you may believe that if you misrepresent what I have stated, you will win an unwinnable argument

obey all and whatever you wish...but do not bring that to the table and say it keeps us saved for it does not

No one is talking about keeping the law for salvation.

No one is talking about following the law to be saved.


No one is talking about obey the law to be justified.

how does being unable to keep the law FOR salvation suddenly change in order to KEEP salvation

you do not understand grace or how Jesus met the equivalent of our punishment in order for God to declare us not guilty if you say we must now keep what no one was ever able to keep prior to Jesus Crucifixion

do you think that Jesus died so that you or anyone could be better able to keep the law? how does that illustrate or uphold God's grace and His perfect sacrifice o our behalf?

Again your passage answers your last question here:

By faith we establish (i.e. uphold) the law. To love Christ so much that we don't want to see his humiliating sacrifice wasted. The shame he endured for we who didn't deserve such a gift? It's the least we can do to try to honor him with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength and do what he said to do.


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 13:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.

Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".

If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hmm..from me saying things like "WE have already broken it" and that "we must pay with OUR LIVES" and "go sin NO MORE" you've concluded I believe I have *never* sinned? I'm not following how you've reached that conclusion about me. Look at the conclusion Paul reaches from the passage you shared:

Romans 3:31

31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

^That's how we keep the law post-Christ's gift. Our faith upholds that law. There is a sanctification process that most are unfortunately skipping. Correct, no one can be *justified* by works of the law. Such has been established numerous times. JUSTIFIED; pardoned; sins forgiven; saved.

But sanctification is another thing entirely. It's stage 2 in a 3-stage process leading to glorification.

1) Justification
2) Sanctification
3) Glorification

We can't get our new bodies of glory until we are sanctified (i.e. made perfect in our hearts; having hearts like Christ who loved God so immensely that its incredible powerful is enough to resist the temptations of this flesh; "Christ in you, the hope of glory") because otherwise it would simply be the garden of Eden all over again; people with evil in their hearts who would end up corrupting their perfect bodies yet again.

I've commented in yours to save on time. Apologies for breaking up your post.



Again your passage answers your last question here:

By faith we establish (i.e. uphold) the law. To love Christ so much that we don't want to see his humiliating sacrifice wasted. The shame he endured for we who didn't deserve such a gift? It's the least we can do to try to honor him with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength and do what he said to do.


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

The Law is not of faith. (Gal. 3:12)

 

[Stephen63]

You should be very very careful not to follow those false prophets. They are "many"

EZEK.14 9] And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.[10] And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: THE PUNISHMENT OF THE PROPHET SHALL BE EVEN AS THE PUNISHMENT OF HIM THAT SEEKETH UNTO HIM;

There are indeed many..... right in this forum.

What do you call someone who quotes a false prophet on a regular basis, spreading his poison? "My favorite preacher said 'God said'....." The disciple who follows his master is as his master.

What do you call someone who quotes scripture to justify living the way they do? Have we forgotten when we say "the Bible says...." we are actually saying "Jesus says....." because John 1:1 says Jesus is the Word?

What do we call someone who quotes the scriptures accurately, but does so in a terrible attitude that misrepresents the Author's character? It's not just 'what' is said..... it's the 'how' it's said, the 'why' it's said. Speaking the truth out of character is speaking a half-truth at best.

Now, while I may have described a false teacher, we all know there's a thin line that separates the two.

What is our "intent" when we speak the Word? To edify, or to justify? Are we building, or tearing down? Are we giving out the Word of Life in such a manner that kills instead? Before you conclude I'm off my rocker, just read some of the threads in the BDF that are over 200 posts.

 

[pottersclay]

really? maybe open a window then

the op has been here a year and a half longer than you

My God it's mother Theresa again.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Anyone advocating for Law as a means for salvation, maintaining salvation, or as the rule of life.

Good, because I haven't seen anyone advocating for a return to the letter of the law except maybe some Hebrew Roots and Judaizers .

 

[Yahshua]

The Law is not of faith. (Gal. 3:12)

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.

Context is key, Free. In Galatians 3:11 Paul is clearly talking about Justification while Romans 3:31 is not (I even emphasized it in turquoise). In Romans 3:31 Paul concludes that the "fruit" of faith in Christ will always *uphold* the law.

Our faith does NOT make the law void like Paul says.

Again,

1) Justification
2) Sanctification
3) Glorification

Let's move on to step 2. This is what we're focused on now.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

 

[JaumeJ]

God told me smething once. It is already written in similar words, but He told me as a blessing, I believe, for me, and I understood it for the first time because He imparted what it said. We who believe Jesus Christ and witness to that effect are all prophets for the testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy, Revelation. So many of you need to know you really are prophets. Just because you do not call fire down from heaven or divide a sea by God's command, does not say you are not one.

Here is what God said to me in my sleep. "Now the Children of Israel, while they were in the wilderness were disobedient. By their disobdience salvation was gained by the nations."

Now that may seem obvious or even silly to some, but with these words I realized, had the Children of Israel been perfect, there would not have been need of Jesus Christ for God would have already had the Perfect People. The nations would have been condemned to perdition, but this was not the Father's plan. The Children of Israel, though His chosen, are just as much in need of fsalvation as any sinner. God's ways are not our ways, if they were we would already be perfect but we are just as imperfect as were the Israelis of old. This is wonderful augmentation or magnification of the Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.............

 

[LaurenTM]

not doing this

go ahead and live by the law

don't forget your sheep sacrifice...I heard there is a 2/4 on Saturday

one leaves....and presto

like we did not know that was coming

so, this thread started to discuss false prophets

and has promulgated into the insufferable law vs grace fatal z chromosome thread of unhappy endings

thank you so much for that mr 'Y' (double entendre in case someone misses it)

 

[LaurenTM]

My God it's mother Theresa again.

which god is that?

your god?

that's a no no...I woulda thunk you knew that

such a flipper head you are

 

[LaurenTM]

The Law is not of faith. (Gal. 3:12)

they have not read that far yet

they are stuck in Exodus somewhere I believe

 

[FreeNChrist]

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.

Context is key, Free. In Galatians 3:11 Paul is clearly talking about Justification while Romans 3:31 is not (I even emphasized it in turquoise). In Romans 3:31 Paul concludes that the "fruit" of faith in Christ will always *uphold* the law.

Our faith does NOT make the law void like Paul says.

Again,

1) Justification
2) Sanctification
3) Glorification

Let's move on to step 2. This is what we're focused on now.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

Who's the "we" in we're? When did this become your thread??