Fighting/self-defense

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#41
Before we answered this question I believe we must consider: Is our self defense INLINE WITH ?

[h=1]1 Corinthians 13 King James Version (KJV)[/h]

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#42
There is nothing wrong with self defense.

We are allowed to protect ourselves, and to protect others.
Now that being said, if there is a way out of getting into a confrontation we are to seek that path first. Example if some one breaks into your house to rob you, if you can get out a window or another door and call the police to make sure no harm comes to you and your family then that is the way you are to go.

If there is no way out though, we are told not to do anything that could agitate the situation by the example Jesus gave us that if some one stills from you, give them your cloak to.

Always try to avoid the worse case situation if possible.
Two 50lbs pit bulls would work out just fine.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
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#43
If you believe Jesus asked us to take up real physical swords than you actually have to prove that he wanted them to take up real swords and not spiritual swords. For do you remember later when Jesus rebuked Peter for chopping off one of the guards ears? Did Jesus say, "Good Job Peter!" "You did what I asked" No. Jesus did not say that to Peter. He said something entirely different to him.
Even the disciples had thought that Jesus was referring to a real sword, but since they weren't given the Holy spirit to help them to interpreted the spiritual meaning of His preaching. But Jesus sound like He couldn't take it anymore about them being spiritually ignorant when He had shouted, "Enough"!
 
H

hishealingred

Guest
#44
This is pretty long.


Ephesians 6:10-18
"10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand"


Someone had quoted this, and that is not speaking of fighting with the physical realm. Did you just miss the point of what it just said, it's so obvious, I do not understand how all of you do not understand.


"12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."


But then again, the bible clearly states:


"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Matthew 13:11


It also says this:


"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:19-24


"25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the Lord shall be made fat." Proverbs 28:25


"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all." Romans 12:17


"14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with." Proverbs 17:14


"4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1


"17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:17-22


"10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him," John 18:10-12


"47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?
49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled." 47 And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
48 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?
49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled." Mark 14:47-49


"51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me." Matthew 26:51-55


"7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7


"23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not." 2 Corinthians 11:23-31


"7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:7-8
The reason the law back then was not as strict was because that was the only way God could save them and they agreed to that.


"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"
1 Peter 3:18


"So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name."
Acts 5:41


"for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." Acts 9:16


"Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED." Romans 8:36


"Are they servants of Christ?--I speak as if insane--I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death." 2 Corinthians 11:23


"25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;" Hebrews 11:25


"14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;" 1 Peter 3:14


"11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." Matthew 5:11


"22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matthew 10:22


"39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 10:39


"10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised." 1 Corinthians 4:10 (this personally reminds me of the mega church and those "Christians" who are well known and barely receive persecution, hatred, etc.)


"1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." Psalm 1:1-6


"And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me." Psalm 50:15


"10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." 2 Corinthians 12:10


"49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him." Luke 22:49-51


"3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;"
1 Timothy 3:3


"23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever." Psalm 23:1-6


"22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Corinthians 9:22-27


"13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." Romans 13


"4 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.


3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4


"44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44


"28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28


ALSO lastly, you are supposed to call on God when these things happen, just say Jesus. I've heard several stories of Jesus intervening. And another thing, before last year I got in a fight with my mom and usually she would fight back, but she did not. Because she was not afraid and was being an example of Christ (Several people have also been attacked in the Bible, including Paul/Saul). There are several people in different parts of the world who are persecuted day and night, they do not fight back when they are attacked with machetes and cricket-bats and other things. They usually end up dying. Even though, some just get attacked randomly, not just because it's for Christ, still, you should not fight back.


I am going to leave this here as well.


"4 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.
5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.
11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.
13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.
14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall.
15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The Lord liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the Lord will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually: her rulers with shame do love, Give ye.
19 The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their sacrifices." Hosea 4
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#46
Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
(John 10:39-40)

here's an example of Him removing Himself from those who would do Him violence.
Very good posthuman.

Here is what God intended...

Exo 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

And here is one of my favorite passages concerning fighting...

2Ch 20:1 It came to pass after this also, that the children of Moab, and the children of Ammon, and with them other beside the Ammonites, came against Jehoshaphat to battle.
2Ch 20:2 Then there came some that told Jehoshaphat, saying, There cometh a great multitude against thee from beyond the sea on this side Syria; and, behold, they be in Hazazontamar, which is Engedi.
2Ch 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.

2Ch 20:4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.

2Ch 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
2Ch 20:10 And now, behold, the children of Ammon and Moab and mount Seir, whom thou wouldest not let Israel invade, when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them, and destroyed them not;
2Ch 20:11 Behold, I say, how they reward us, to come to cast us out of thy possession, which thou hast given us to inherit.
2Ch 20:12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
2Ch 20:13 And all Judah stood before the LORD, with their little ones, their wives, and their children.

2Ch 20:16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.

2Ch 20:20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.
2Ch 20:21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the LORD, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the LORD; for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Ch 20:22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
2Ch 20:23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
2Ch 20:24 And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.


Now considering this, when those recorded in the New Testament were faced with attackers, persecutors, how many waged war against their attackers? Can anyone show me ONE example?
 
Jul 27, 2011
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#47
The title is fighting in self defense. Not many people are crazy enough to mess with me, Thank God. But i will do what i can to help someone else that is getting abused, or miss treated in some way. People can mess with me all they want it wouldn't bother me, if they are crazy enough to do it. But don't mess with family and friends, and i would be willing to help out a stranger as well.
 
Aug 13, 2014
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#48
Absolutely I think it is fine....
Remember, it was God who led His people out of Egypt knowing full well that they would have to fight and have to defend themselves....just to mention one of the battles.

Ephesians 6:10-18
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
I do not see what you see in Ephesians 6:10-18 but I may be alone here about the verse.
Mac.
 
Aug 13, 2014
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#49
If you can not avoid the altercation, and the worse case situation takes place and you do end up severely hurting them or even as far as kill them.

Speaking of myself, if that was to happen the first thing I would do is ask God to forgive for what I did.

And knowing that we have a just Lord and Savior I will be forgiven.

The next thing I would do is speak to him if he is still alive and try to reconcile our differences, and speak to him about our Lord.

If I killed him in the altercation, then I would go to his family and apologize to them for what had conspired.
And bring the word of the Lord to them as well.
I am sorry but if you willfully do a wrong for any reason why would you think God is going to forgive you! If you did not know what is right and what is wrong yes then God will forgive the wrong but you are saying it is OK to do a wrong thinking that two wrongs will make a right.

I sometimes wonder about all the speeders who say they are Christian if when they get home they ask God to forgive the wrong...

The problem is Christians have a much better chance of not getting into a problem because God does say He will be on the side of them that follow Him. He does not say Christian can not get hurt but it is far better to have God on ones side.
So many of the posters on this subject think like you do and that is a sad thing to think about but maybe even just one reader gets the message of following God and not mans teachings...

Mac.
 
Aug 13, 2014
193
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#50
If the only way to protect the meek is to harm the attacker, you harm the attacker. If a woman is being attacked by 3 men should I ask them to stop? grab one and get beaten unconscious so they can continue? or begin the tedious act of shutting them down one by one? Does anybody here think that a man is not to protect his family?
Interesting how so many can come up with stories of how to do what they want and not what God wants.

Mac.
 
H

hishealingred

Guest
#51
I have read a book before about this man who survived in being put into camps for being a Christian, it was sometime near Hitlers reign I think but I could be wrong, it was in a different and smaller country though. They did horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible things to them. Some people were given crap and piss to use as communion, literally, they forced them to do that and they killed their children in front of them, and guess what? You know what they did? They would sing, or their parents would give their lives for there children, or the children would comfort there parents in saying "Don't worry, I am going to be with Jesus!", or there parents would be cheering there children on in saying that it is for Christs' sake. Or friends, families, strangers would try to comfort another or strangers would die for others, they would say "No! Take me!" And they would be beaten and burned, things shoved in them. And even some of the people there, the people who were doing this to them had even been converted, this one man was hating so hard on this one guy and he told the dude he was torturing "I am god now". The Christian man said:

"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" Psalm 82:6.

And there were some other things he had said to this man that I had forgotten, and he was just filled with anger as to how loving he was towards him. He died (the guy who was being tortured). He was put in a room and suffered several kinds of torture, later that man (the torturer) was saved and converted. Do you know how Christ can save lives? Do you even know how forgiving he is? I know some might think "Well this is nothing about fighting/self-defense" but it is. Literally any kind of strife, fighting, self-defense, whatever it may be you are trying to justify is all wrong. Even if you are just getting mugged, just let them have it, Jesus said:

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also." Matthew 5:40

Even if it's all you have, this woman in the bible did when giving back to God.

"38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

39
And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:38-44

I'm sorry if I am "getting off topic" but I just really like to talk about The Truth.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
13,131
113
#52
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.


(Matthew 5:9)
 
Aug 13, 2014
193
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#53
If the only way to protect the meek is to harm the attacker, you harm the attacker. If a woman is being attacked by 3 men should I ask them to stop? grab one and get beaten unconscious so they can continue? or begin the tedious act of shutting them down one by one? Does anybody here think that a man is not to protect his family?
I did not see any replies so I will do one. I Being x Army including fort Brag I used to think like most and three guys was chicken feed in my days but. But in 62 I learned I needed to get out of the Army and start over and to protect my family I made sure they understood that following God is protection in many ways.
Not walking at night by ones self and even today when driving do not look or point a finger at other drivers and always lock the car and house doors and windows. Remember do not tempt God thinking He will protect one because we must do our part and He will do His part.
Sometimes no matter what one does things happen but such is life when we have free will.

Mac.
 
H

hishealingred

Guest
#54
OH YEAH. Here is my favorite chapter in The Book of Psalms that I absolutely love, like it is my favorite, my ultimate favorite and it just speaks about this and how God will deliver you from your enemies. It's Psalm 18



"18 I will love thee, O Lord, my strength.
2 The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.


3 I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.


5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.


6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.


7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.


8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.


9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.


10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.


11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.


12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.


13 The Lord also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.


14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.


15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.


16 He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.


17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.


18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the Lord was my stay.


19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.


20 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.


21 For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God.


22 For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.


23 I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.


24 Therefore hath the Lord recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.


25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;


26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.


27 For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.


28 For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness.


29 For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.


30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.


31 For who is God save the Lord? or who is a rock save our God?


32 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.


33 He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.


34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.


35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.


36 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.


37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.


38 I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.


39 For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.


40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.


41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the Lord, but he answered them not.


42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.


43 Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me.


44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.


45 The strangers shall fade away, and be afraid out of their close places.


46 The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.


47 It is God that avengeth me, and subdueth the people under me.


48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.


49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O Lord, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.


50 Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore."


For the part of him beating his enemies up, he is talking about spiritual enemies, and making them serve him.


"38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.


39 Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.


40 And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.


41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?


42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?


45 Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,


46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;


47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation." Luke 20:38-47


What Psalm 110 said:


"110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.


2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.


3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.


4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.


5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.


6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.


7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head."


That's basically what the-
"12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Esphesians 6:12 - is all about because Jesus said:


"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." Luke 10:19


"Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases." Luke 9:1


"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:19

"Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:" Psalm 8:6

"7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
 
H

hishealingred

Guest
#55
God takes care of the wicked people/physical people while you curse the demons who give them power, it's cool.

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,781
2,947
113
#56
I am a pacifist. I am not sure what I would have done if my children were being hurt, I confess. Revert back to the "old man?"

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighborand hate your enemy.’ [SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.[SUP]46 [/SUP]For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? [SUP]48 [/SUP]Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Matt. 5:43-48
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#57
I think this settles the matter
Luke 22
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
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#58
I keep reading people posting scripture about "vengeance, being used, being repressed"

The OP isn't talking about vengeance. He isn't talking about being used maliciously or religiously repressed. He isn't talking about pride.

What is being struck on the right cheek?

Turn the other cheek.
The examples that follow confirm this reading. "If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also" You are probably imagining a blow with the right fist. But such a blow would fall on the left cheek. To hit the right cheek with a fist would require the left hand. But the left hand could be used only for unclean tasks; at Qumran, a Jewish religious community of Jesus day, to gesture with the left hand meant exclusion from the meeting and penance for ten days. To grasp this you must physically try it: how would you hit the other's right cheek with your right hand? If you have tried it, you will know: the only feasible blow is a backhand. The backhand was not a blow to injure, but to insult, humiliate, degrade. It was not administered to an equal but an inferior. Masters backhanded slaves; husbands, wives; parents, children; Romans, Jews. The whole point of the blow was to force someone who was out of line back into place.

http://www.cpt.org/files/BN - Jesus' Third Way.pdf

Anyone confused should read this article.

The law of love is enough to know you have to stand up to protect the meek.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#59
I keep reading people posting scripture about "vengeance, being used, being repressed"

The OP isn't talking about vengeance. He isn't talking about being used maliciously or religiously repressed. He isn't talking about pride.

What is being struck on the right cheek?

Turn the other cheek.
The examples that follow confirm this reading. "If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also" You are probably imagining a blow with the right fist. But such a blow would fall on the left cheek. To hit the right cheek with a fist would require the left hand. But the left hand could be used only for unclean tasks; at Qumran, a Jewish religious community of Jesus day, to gesture with the left hand meant exclusion from the meeting and penance for ten days. To grasp this you must physically try it: how would you hit the other's right cheek with your right hand? If you have tried it, you will know: the only feasible blow is a backhand. The backhand was not a blow to injure, but to insult, humiliate, degrade. It was not administered to an equal but an inferior. Masters backhanded slaves; husbands, wives; parents, children; Romans, Jews. The whole point of the blow was to force someone who was out of line back into place.

http://www.cpt.org/files/BN%20-%20Jesus%27%20Third%20Way.pdf

Anyone confused should read this article.

The law of love is enough to know you have to stand up to protect the meek.

Is that mean if one If one strike you in your right cheek you must say I am a human


Quote
By turning the cheek, then, the "inferior" is saying: "I'm a human being, just like you. I refuse to be humiliated
any longer. I am your equal. I am a child of God. I won't take it anymore."

End Quote.

From the whole picture of what Jesus teaching and example, Jesus not refuse to be humiliated because his love.

Stephen ask not refuse to be humiliated, and not resist.

I don't think that teaching is to resist, but to love and let other people hurt us.

Jesus start this teaching with eye for eye and tooth for tooth. but,

But mean Jesus will teach some thing different something opposite with teaching that has been heard before

The old teaching is eye for eye mean strike for strike.

The new teaching must be opposite, if the new teaching inline with the old one than why the way Jesus talk indicate it will be different.

No more eye for eye, no more strike for strike, but Eye for love and strike for love.

Let God taking care and be the judge.

all our duty is to Love.
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
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#60
The point is that Jesus is talking about someone humiliating us. Someone treating us inferior. I don't agree with the part of the statement I quoted where it said "we are showing we are equals." Again I do not agree with that, however it stands for us to be struck on the right cheek was either with a dirty hand or a backhand. Both suggest insult, not bodily injury. He is saying, don't strike out in anger. Don't call them names. Don't even hate them, but love them. When Stephen and Jesus were killed it was over Religious oppression. If we go before the antichrist and it is take the mark of the beast or be killed we should not take the mark and stand strongly. I won't fight, I will let my faith shine strong, however to let some backstreet thug rob me and my girlfriend and gunpoint or watch as 3 men beat a single guy in the street and do nothing is ANYTHING but love. God never changes. So where is the God who delivers our enemies? He is still around.