For Non Tongue Speakers Only

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Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#61
It means groans which cannot be expressed in words, not that there is "no sound at all".
The Greek word from which groaning has been translated from is stenagmoiV or stengamos or stenagmoV;

The Greek word "alalhtoV or alaletos" is defined for Romans 8:26 as "from a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of lalew - laleo 2980; unspeakable:--unutterable, which cannot be uttered

I gave you a link to my source; now show me yours.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

We were speaking of 1 Cor 14:1, where the word "gifts" is not in the texts, and not 1 Cor 12:4, where "gifts" IS in the texts.
It is not defined as you put it. The Greek word "pneumatika" is defined at my sources as...

"from pneuma - pneuma 4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious:--spiritual. Compare yucikoV - psuchikos 5591."

And since Paul is talking about gifts in seeking the gift of prophesy among all spiritual gifts as stemming from that word in that verse, then that is the only way to define that word by how it is used in that verse in the context of the message of that chapter.

Addressed above.
More like side stepping...until you show your source for how you are defining those Greek words in relation to that verse..
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#62
Check kavik's profile. By his own admission, he is not a Christian. His interest in tongues is academic, and not biblical.
Thanks for the information, but that does not make his observation about languages invalid nor my conclusion as moot.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#63
I agree, linguistics is a science and it is a valuable source of information.

By analogy if a person is miraculously healed a medical doctor can confirm it they knew the person and their illness prior to the healing.

Likewise, extensive studies conducted world wide on the analysis of linguistic patterns of present day speaking in tongues, have shown repeatedly there is little pattern at all to the utterances, but it is far more disorganized and far less complex than intelligible language.



Thanks for the information, but that does not make his observation about languages invalid nor my conclusion as moot.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#64
This thread is for non tongue speakers to be free to edify one another and sharing short videos exposing tongues without interpretation which is also not being understood by a foreigner as not of the Lord.

I just think that a thread should be provided so that tongue speakers will not feel victimized as we share videos and criticize the videos in according to His words or add to the video, edification so that those whom are on the fence about that kind of tongue, the Lord may help them not to seek after it, but after the gift of prophesy instead as Paul instructed.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.....[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
The devil's tongues which is vain & profane babbling existed in the world before Pentecost; therefore since we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, God's gift of tongues can never be just vain & profane babbling.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Here is a short video of a fellow believer reproving vain tongue speakers for using Mark 16:17-18 for that kind of tongue.

I point out though that he should have clarified that no one is to test the Lord our God by that reference of Mark 16:17-18 as Paul did not do that when he was attacked by a viper in that other reference that the guy talked about in reproving using Mark 16:17-18 in that way.

[video=youtube;eRVomV3PgOw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVomV3PgOw[/video]

To add to this video... he had referred to Revelation 13:13, but I would point out the warning to the church at Thyatira as speaking in tongues without interpretation as speaking the utter depths of Satan for which they speak.

Revelation 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP] 19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

If any of you like to share a short video from Youtube to expose that kind of tongues as not of the Lord, feel free to do so.

You can even share a video by a vain tongue speaker to reprove it by commentary with scripture if you prefer.

I can't stop those who defend tongues from replying, but I thought it would be nice to have just a thread where tongue speakers do not feel like they are being victimized for having that kind of tongue to avoid this thread altogether.

I believe in God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people, but all believers when zealous for spiritual gifts, are to seek the gift of prophesy which is to edify the body of believers in your normal tongue. Seek that instead of tongues.

this is a very interesting Thread
The question I have and will take up with Admin is can a thread be made that does not allow all the member s to see or even challenge?
On this Web page . In every thread all members have the right to participate. The only things that are not allowed are the rules which list them. I will close this thread until further clarity from Admin. Thank you
 
Last edited:

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#65
This thread is for non tongue speakers to be free to edify one another and sharing short videos exposing tongues without interpretation which is also not being understood by a foreigner as not of the Lord.

I just think that a thread should be provided so that tongue speakers will not feel victimized as we share videos and criticize the videos in according to His words or add to the video, edification so that those whom are on the fence about that kind of tongue, the Lord may help them not to seek after it, but after the gift of prophesy instead as Paul instructed.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.....[SUP]20 [/SUP]Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.[SUP]21 [/SUP]In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
The devil's tongues which is vain & profane babbling existed in the world before Pentecost; therefore since we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, God's gift of tongues can never be just vain & profane babbling.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Here is a short video of a fellow believer reproving vain tongue speakers for using Mark 16:17-18 for that kind of tongue.

I point out though that he should have clarified that no one is to test the Lord our God by that reference of Mark 16:17-18 as Paul did not do that when he was attacked by a viper in that other reference that the guy talked about in reproving using Mark 16:17-18 in that way.

[video=youtube;eRVomV3PgOw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVomV3PgOw[/video]

To add to this video... he had referred to Revelation 13:13, but I would point out the warning to the church at Thyatira as speaking in tongues without interpretation as speaking the utter depths of Satan for which they speak.

Revelation 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP] 19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP] 22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

If any of you like to share a short video from Youtube to expose that kind of tongues as not of the Lord, feel free to do so.

You can even share a video by a vain tongue speaker to reprove it by commentary with scripture if you prefer.

I can't stop those who defend tongues from replying, but I thought it would be nice to have just a thread where tongue speakers do not feel like they are being victimized for having that kind of tongue to avoid this thread altogether.

I believe in God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people, but all believers when zealous for spiritual gifts, are to seek the gift of prophesy which is to edify the body of believers in your normal tongue. Seek that instead of tongues.
The video is out of context mark 16 and the misuse of Paul's experience of being bitten by a viper In Acts has anything to do as Parallel with Mark 16 is a very long stretch .
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#66
the thread has been reopened until I speak to admin
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,590
879
113
61
#67
It seems most Christians' view of tongues ranges from apathy ("why should we care? Jesus didn't speak in tongues.") to actively speaking against it and condemning it (see Enow's posts).

In Acts 2, upon receiving the Holy Spirit, the apostles spoke in tongues.

In Acts 10, Peter knew that Cornelius and his family had received the Holy Spirit because they spoke in tongues.

In Acts 19, the first thing Paul asked the believers about was whether they had received the Holy Spirit. They hadn't even heard of it. Paul taught them, prayed for them, and the result was they spoke in tongues.

Paul spoke in tongues more than the entire Corinthian church (1 Cor 14:18).

Paul (writing by revelation) said that he wanted all of them to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5a).

In Eph 6:18, Paul (writing by revelation) encourages Christians to always pray in the Spirit, and we know from 1 Cor 14 that praying in the spirit is speaking in tongues.

In Jude 1:20, Christians are encouraged to build themselves up by praying in the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me that this is something all Christians, rather than being apathetic, should at LEAST be curious about. And Christians should NEVER condemn it (1 Cor 14:39).

Also note that in Acts 2, 10, and 19, there is no record of the people who spoke in tongues giving the interpretation, so Enow's claim that tongues without interpretation is "tongues of the devil" is without merit.
So Maby acts 2, 10 and 19 has another purpose then the pentecostal and charismatic Theologie claims?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKIteAul6Z8

Bible Flock box teaching is from SDA. and doesn't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, hell torment for ever, . The video on YouTube does an ok Job exposing this " [FONT=YouTube Noto, Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Bible flock Box Exposed. The man in the Video on " tongues exposed " name is Greg"


He is Seven day Adventist
he teaching against:

1. hell eternal torment
2. the Trinity
3. Eternal security
4. heaven
5. holds to elan White false teachings

The sad thing is if the thread is only for those who hold to not speaking in tongues and this video is used as the " Biblical " source to prove that tongues is of the devil and not biblical why would one use a false teacher to make that point?

Then mask it over with this statement:

"[/FONT]I just think that a thread should be provided so that tongue speakers will not feel victimized as we share videos and criticize the videos in according to His words or add to the video, edification so that those whom are on the fence about that kind of tongue, the Lord may help them not to seek after it, but after the gift of prophesy instead as Paul instructed."


To use a false teacher to edify those who maybe on the fence about the gifts of the Holy Spirit ? Yet the assertion is those who speak in tongues are demon possessed and the video's teacher has no :

1. biblical education that can be verified
2. name that can be verified
3. publishing , or church supported statement of faith i.e. "what we believe"

This Greg is a Joke ! and a false teacher and is presented as an authority on biblical Gifting of the Holy Spirit .
The only victims are those who listen to this false teacher and think it is edifying.

I would be very embarrassed to have my name attached to this as creditable source for biblical study, debate , and edification.

I thought you all would like to know that :)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#69
This thread is for non tongue speakers to be free to edify one another and sharing short videos exposing tongues without interpretation which is also not being understood by a foreigner as not of the Lord.
I would offer first and foremost a clear distinction must be made between tongues and prophecy, they have different apposing meanings. In that way what God has called separate no man should claim them as all one and the same.

No such thing as tongues speakers…. its prophecy hearers. Men spoke in their own tongues God interpreted the words he put into the prophet’s mouth in words that others could easily understand. Like all spiritual gifts not seen they edify at least two, the speaker in whose lips Christ spoke and the hearer. him who was given ears to hear what the Spirit says .

Tongues is not an interpretation of God as prophecy is but rather as sign to those who reject prophecy as the one source of faith by which we can believe God.

Scripture God’s interpretation to us is not of any private interpretation. God brings the words of prophecy and interprets them. We do not put our trust in the interpretations of God by having them as private interpretations of men . that would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:20
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKIteAul6Z8

Bible Flock box teaching is from SDA. and doesn't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, hell torment for ever, . The video on YouTube does an ok Job exposing this " Bible flock Box Exposed. The man in the Video on " tongues exposed " name is Greg"


He is Seven day Adventist
he teaching against:

1. hell eternal torment
2. the Trinity
3. Eternal security
4. heaven
5. holds to elan White false teachings

The sad thing is if the thread is only for those who hold to not speaking in tongues and this video is used as the " Biblical " source to prove that tongues is of the devil and not biblical why would one use a false teacher to make that point?

Then mask it over with this statement:

"
I just think that a thread should be provided so that tongue speakers will not feel victimized as we share videos and criticize the videos in according to His words or add to the video, edification so that those whom are on the fence about that kind of tongue, the Lord may help them not to seek after it, but after the gift of prophesy instead as Paul instructed."


To use a false teacher to edify those who maybe on the fence about the gifts of the Holy Spirit ? Yet the assertion is those who speak in tongues are demon possessed and the video's teacher has no :

1. biblical education that can be verified
2. name that can be verified
3. publishing , or church supported statement of faith i.e. "what we believe"

This Greg is a Joke ! and a false teacher and is presented as an authority on biblical Gifting of the Holy Spirit .
The only victims are those who listen to this false teacher and think it is edifying.

I would be very embarrassed to have my name attached to this as creditable source for biblical study, debate , and edification.

I thought you all would like to know that :)
post it again for ya :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#71
I would offer first and foremost a clear distinction must be made between tongues and prophecy, they have different apposing meanings. In that way what God has called separate no man should claim them as all one and the same.

No such thing as tongues speakers…. its prophecy hearers. Men spoke in their own tongues God interpreted the words he put into the prophet’s mouth in words that others could easily understand. Like all spiritual gifts not seen they edify at least two, the speaker in whose lips Christ spoke and the hearer. him who was given ears to hear what the Spirit says .

Tongues is not an interpretation of God as prophecy is but rather as sign to those who reject prophecy as the one source of faith by which we can believe God.

Scripture God’s interpretation to us is not of any private interpretation. God brings the words of prophecy and interprets them. We do not put our trust in the interpretations of God by having them as private interpretations of men . that would be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:20
i would offer and foremost show the guy " Greg " in the video is a false teacher LOL ahahahahhahahabh

and not a discernible person on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit LOl
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#73
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKIteAul6Z8

Bible Flock box teaching is from SDA. and doesn't believe in the doctrine of the trinity, hell torment for ever, . The video on YouTube does an ok Job exposing this " Bible flock Box Exposed. The man in the Video on " tongues exposed " name is Greg"


He is Seven day Adventist
he teaching against:

1. hell eternal torment
2. the Trinity
3. Eternal security
4. heaven
5. holds to elan White false teachings

The sad thing is if the thread is only for those who hold to not speaking in tongues and this video is used as the " Biblical " source to prove that tongues is of the devil and not biblical why would one use a false teacher to make that point?

Then mask it over with this statement:

"
I just think that a thread should be provided so that tongue speakers will not feel victimized as we share videos and criticize the videos in according to His words or add to the video, edification so that those whom are on the fence about that kind of tongue, the Lord may help them not to seek after it, but after the gift of prophesy instead as Paul instructed."


To use a false teacher to edify those who maybe on the fence about the gifts of the Holy Spirit ? Yet the assertion is those who speak in tongues are demon possessed and the video's teacher has no :

1. biblical education that can be verified
2. name that can be verified
3. publishing , or church supported statement of faith i.e. "what we believe"

This Greg is a Joke ! and a false teacher and is presented as an authority on biblical Gifting of the Holy Spirit .
The only victims are those who listen to this false teacher and think it is edifying.

I would be very embarrassed to have my name attached to this as creditable source for biblical study, debate , and edification.

I thought you all would like to know that :)
one more time
 
May 12, 2017
2,641
65
0
#74
CS1-

Thank you for exposing this for what it was.
 
Feb 5, 2017
1,118
36
0
#76
Has anything important or any revelation come from speaking in tongues?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#78
Has anything important or any revelation come from speaking in tongues?
I can ensure you that non has from Bible Flock Box and aka greg :)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,350
4,064
113
#79

There is false teaching here every minute of everyday.
i'm sure there is ? and Bible Flock box is one of them I would not use them as a source for biblical debate concerning the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. If one wants to have other hear what they are saying about it. You can use them but do not think all will not check on the source provided :)
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#80
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:20
Do you think it is coincidence people cannot teach themselves how to read the written spoken word.

And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa 29:12


So who taught you to read the Bible?