For then shall be great tribulation

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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It means non believing (non-messianic) jews and people who are not jews by descent or blood but yet falsely claim so.
What do you think the synagogue of satan would be seeking to achieve?
 
Jan 8, 2013
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The actual tribulation has not happened yet. There will be no second coming until Israel's plea and confession that they rejected Jesus as their Messiah. He will not return until they look to the one they pierced, and cry out for Him to return. This is the precondition of His second coming. And.... it will be through the awful tribulation that Israel will suffer and reach that final point of confession. Not all Jews will be saved, many will die, but those sealed will be kept safe. Just like Noah's ark, so will the remnant be kept safe.

Hosea 5:15: "I will go and return to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Zech 12:10: "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn"

Matthew 23:37-39: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "

Nations will be gathered against the remnant of Israel. This has not happened yet.

Saying all this, it's clear that the tribulation is all about the Jews. Nowhere does the gentile church fit in.

Salvation is offered to gentiles today, while Israel are temporarily blinded. When the fullness of the gentiles comes in God will then turn to Israel and focus on them.
You have done a great job with the above post. I hope that many can be of one mind concerning these things. It is vital that we be of the same mind lest Satan take advantage and cause division in the body of Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes it did, and that is one of the most remarkable fulfillments of Bible prophecy of the whole Christian era. The Old Testament is full of it and a day-years and time-times prophecies prove that God knew to the exact year when the new nation of Israel would be established, 1948, and Jerusalem would be freed of Gentile control, 1967.

Many don't want to accept those day-year and time-times prophecies as fulfilled in new Israel, because they are supporting pillars in dispensational eschatology, but when you prove them fulfilled in new Israel in 1948 and 1967, major tenets of the seven-year tribulation doctrine can no longer be biblically or historically supported.
it did?

they are living in peace?
they have forsaken their idolotry and detestable things?
they have forsaken their ungodliness?
they have one king?
they have repented?
they have asked Gods forgiveness for the very thing which Got them scattered in the first place?
They are Gods light into the world. and the gentile nations KNOW Jesus is savior because of them?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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Anyone else have an idea what the synagogue of satan that say they are Jews would be seeking to achieve?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The Lord blinded the Jews to the Gospel, Romans 11:8, so all the Scripture they have been allowed to see during the Christian era is the Old Testament.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.


The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


John 9
39 Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” 40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains.


2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.


John 5
39You search the Scriptures [the Old Testament] because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me [The Lord], 40 yet you refuse to come to me [The Lord] that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”


Luke 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side.f The rich man also died and was buried, 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”


Why do you think I hate the blind bigotry of the Church so much? Their unwillingness to accept at face value such verses as Romans 4:15, 11:11, 11:24-25 and 11:28-29, keeps us all in darkness and prevents us from standing shoulder to shoulder with our brethren, the Jewish people.
our brethren?
our brethren in some way other than all lost and condemned mankind (WHO NEED JESUS OF NAZARETH?)
our brethren? stand shoulder to shoulder with The Pharisees?

The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


stand shoulder to shoulder with your brethren the Pharisees if you want to...NO GOSPEL...material aid for murder.
stand with gentile converts to Rabbinic Judaism who think God owes them something...ENEMIES OF CHRIST.

continue to hate the Church for what you call blind bigotry - and stay in the bed you have made with The Pharisees.

you want the Church to assent actively or passively to genocide and barbarism on behalf of Zionism and Talmudic Judaism, which isn't even Moses and the prophets (it reviles them and Jesus...Talmud says it's the "burial place of Moses")

"The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
- He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
- He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
- He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b)."


it is your heretical and treasonous doctrine which keeps you in darkness:

"Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Anyone else have an idea what the synagogue of satan that say they are Jews would be seeking to achieve?
could be the pagan church who claims to have taken the promises of the jews? to achieve leading people away from God?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Anyone else have an idea what the synagogue of satan that say they are Jews would be seeking to achieve?
Mark 12:7
But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’

Galatians 4:30
But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.



further away from 'Israel' than that even:

Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-1016
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars. After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis, studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath.

Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk, Khazarian Jews
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Do they call themselves Jews?
it could also mean jews who are trying to get to God by law. and not the way abraham did, by faith. it could mean alot of things.

what do you think god meant when he said he would keep them fro mthe "hour of trial" when God said he will test the whole earth.. the same context here/
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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Mark 12:7
But those tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

further away from 'Israel' than that even:

Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-1016
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars. After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis, studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath.

Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk, Khazarian Jews

zone, how would we know which Jews are in the land of Israel?

Could they be part of the synagogue of satan attempting a coup on the inheritance?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
it could also mean jews who are trying to get to God by law. and not the way abraham did, by faith. it could mean alot of things.

what do you think god meant when he said he would keep them fro mthe "hour of trial" when God said he will test the whole earth.. the same context here/
Trouble is they made their own law, the Messiah said they did not even believe Moses.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Trouble is they made their own law, the Messiah said they did not even believe Moses.
yep. I agree.. but all this was prophesied was it not? should we be surprised they have, and are continuing to do this?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I know you love the Lord with all your heart, as do I, but those last two lines are still true. The Lord blinded the Jews to the Gospel, Romans 11:8, so all the Scripture they have been allowed to see during the Christian era is the Old Testament. If the Jews can't trust the promises God gave them in the Old Testament, then we Christians have no basis for trusting the promises God gave us in the New Testament.

Why do you think I hate the blind bigotry of the Church so much? Their unwillingness to accept at face value such verses as Romans 4:15, 11:11, 11:24-25 and 11:28-29, keeps us all in darkness and prevents us from standing shoulder to shoulder with our brethren, the Jewish people.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

Acts 3:23
Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.'

HE DID KEEP HIS PROMISES:

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.


Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’

36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.


how is a nation born in a day?


Acts 2
"When the day of Pentecost arrived.......those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls."

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Without a doubt the Almighty God is Faithful always.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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zone, how would we know which Jews are in the land of Israel?

Could they be part of the synagogue of satan attempting a coup on the inheritance?
of course they are.
it's already done.
millions and millions dead.
that place will be the graveyard for them all.

and America the Golem paying for it all in blood and money.
never knowing what the Talmud says about them.
what the real goal is.

WHO DO YOU THINK DID 9-11??

Jerusalem ABOVE is our mother.

and harlots from apostate sects of ******ianity, and cowards who shrink away at Pavlovian buzzwords for fear of the jews made it possible.

hate crimes and thought crimes....for what? proclaiming CHRIST IS LORD?
for saying what the BIBLE SAYS?

Matthew 21:43
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

the harlots NEVER believed what was written.



what difference does it make "which jews" are in 'Israel' - whether actual flesh descendants of Abraham or Gentile Converts? does God owe them or anyone else ANYTHING?

do you really believe God preserved some Old Wine Skins who might explode if they heard the Gospel in some Dual Covenant arrangement?


1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


does this apply to everyone who denies Jesus is the Christ?

or has the cult of Dispensationalism carved out an exception? they never bothered looking up Genesis 12:3.

i want nothing to do with such people unless they repent.

they are ashamed of the Gospel - when it comes to the jews - they are afraid of them - and the jews are dying in theirs sins because of it:

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

sickening.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
zone, how would we know which Jews are in the land of Israel?

Could they be part of the synagogue of satan attempting a coup on the inheritance?
they could try all they want, but if God is not in it. They will never have the peace God promised..
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
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From all nations, kindred and tongue will people go through Great Tribulation.

Revelation 7

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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You have done a great job with the above post. I hope that many can be of one mind concerning these things. It is vital that we be of the same mind lest Satan take advantage and cause division in the body of Christ.
these are all fulfilled:

Hosea 5:15: "I will go and return to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Zech 12:10: "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn"

Matthew 23:37-39: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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could be the pagan church who claims to have taken the promises of the jews? to achieve leading people away from God?
How does “Replacement Theology” misrepresent and malign many good Christians? Reformed or Covenant theologians simply do not hold that the church replaced Israel. Reformed theologians believe that God “pruned off” many Jews in judgment for their disbelief; then God grafted in Gentiles by faith. There is no replacement. Grafting-in keeps and cherishes Jewish roots and does them no harm. This correct view promotes a continuity of God’s faithfulness to both believing Jews and Gentiles from the Old Testament and on into the New.

There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology." Critics of historic Reformed theology misrepresent their position by asserting the Church has replaced Israel. This illustration depicts the errant view ascribed to Reformed or Covenant theologians.



So what is the mainstream Reformed / Covenant view? They hold that there is one people of God. This singular “People of God” is comprised of people from both Jewish and Gentile descent. The common factor is that they are “saved by grace through faith.”

Here is an illustration that properly depicts the biblical position held by a vast majority of Reformed thinkers.



As Gentiles came by faith, they would become included in the “People of God” or "true Israel." Therefore in the Old Testament, the righteous (saved) Israelite believed in the promised Messiah. Sadly, this meant unconverted Gentiles and unbelieving Jews comprised the lost people. At the close of the Old Testament, large numbers of national, genetic Jews were rejected by God, depending on works of the law to save them in place of faith. Nonetheless, God remained faithful to a remnant of believing Jews whom He had called.

While some Jews accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah, most did not. “He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.” (John 1:11) There is a massive central message found throughout the New Testament that Christ's coming had insured there would be "one people of God." Being a "light to the Gentiles" was God's original purpose for the Jews and Jesus succeeded where they had failed. “But to all who did receive him [both Jews and Gentiles], who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12) Both Jew and Gentile would come by faith / belief.



This theme of Jew / Gentile unity is replayed so many times in the New Testament. To reject the premise of one people of God is almost to reject the message of Christianity.



Here are just a few passages that show this overwhelming theme of unity.


Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,


In conclusion, there is no such thing as “Replacement Theology.” The Gentiles have been grafted in to Israel, and now they are sharers together in the promises of God in Jesus Christ. To propagate this notion of the Church replacing Israel is divisive. It necessitates an ongoing pejorative use of the term “Replacement Theology.” This term should be redacted from Christian discourse. Using this device to portray other Christians as anti-Semitic is unfair, and also should find cessation.

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