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If we are all of 1 mind do we not act as one even though we are seperate?
When Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane did he not pray to the Father to have his cup taken away? He did not say self I shouldn't take this cup he asked his father in heaven.
Does it not say that the holy spirit came upon him
This whole argument of the Holy trinity thing is as old as the roman empire itself.
It is a snare to catch the unwary
I think of it this way God is the bus, Jesus is driving and the holy spirit is the engine there were other drivers before Jesus Moses and the prophets but none after.
The bus the driver and the engine have always been here we just didn't want to pay the fare so Jesus came and paid the fare for all of us so we could ride the bus with him seems like a simple enough equation tell me what you think
peace and love
corripiens iridis manet
When Jesus was in the garden of Gethsemane did he not pray to the Father to have his cup taken away? He did not say self I shouldn't take this cup he asked his father in heaven.
Does it not say that the holy spirit came upon him
This whole argument of the Holy trinity thing is as old as the roman empire itself.
It is a snare to catch the unwary
I think of it this way God is the bus, Jesus is driving and the holy spirit is the engine there were other drivers before Jesus Moses and the prophets but none after.
The bus the driver and the engine have always been here we just didn't want to pay the fare so Jesus came and paid the fare for all of us so we could ride the bus with him seems like a simple enough equation tell me what you think
peace and love
corripiens iridis manet
R
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
-Exodus 20:3-5
One God not Three gods
-Exodus 20:3-5
One God not Three gods
I am in my father and he is in me
lets just look at this for a second shall we
1 I am in my father in other words I walk in the ways of my father and just as any son on this earth he would share in his fathers make up and DNA if you wil pardon the expression he is of the father
2 and he is in me in other words his spirit is in him the fathers spirit is in him the spirit of the holy ghost
When John the baptist baptised Jesus what happened well as I read.... the heavens opened up and a loud voice said this is my son in whom I am well pleased now would God refer to himself as his own son or are you telling me Jesus threw his voice into the clouds
remember John 3:16 He gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe in him should not perish but have eternal life
Also who sits on the right hand of the father is it Moses.No it,s his son Jesus that is why when Jesus was asked if the womans two children could be taken by him and sit on his right and left he said what you ask is not mine to give because it was his fathers to give.
Does it not say he goes to his father to interced on our behalf
If what I have spoken here is truly in err Then I humbly ask forgiveness but I for the life of me and in my very core believe this to be true I do not believe it`s heresy or antitrinitarian It simply is what it is
corripiens iridis manet
lets just look at this for a second shall we
1 I am in my father in other words I walk in the ways of my father and just as any son on this earth he would share in his fathers make up and DNA if you wil pardon the expression he is of the father
2 and he is in me in other words his spirit is in him the fathers spirit is in him the spirit of the holy ghost
When John the baptist baptised Jesus what happened well as I read.... the heavens opened up and a loud voice said this is my son in whom I am well pleased now would God refer to himself as his own son or are you telling me Jesus threw his voice into the clouds
remember John 3:16 He gave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe in him should not perish but have eternal life
Also who sits on the right hand of the father is it Moses.No it,s his son Jesus that is why when Jesus was asked if the womans two children could be taken by him and sit on his right and left he said what you ask is not mine to give because it was his fathers to give.
Does it not say he goes to his father to interced on our behalf
If what I have spoken here is truly in err Then I humbly ask forgiveness but I for the life of me and in my very core believe this to be true I do not believe it`s heresy or antitrinitarian It simply is what it is
corripiens iridis manet
L
Wow! two words explicit:fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; leaving nothing merely implied; unequivocal: explicit instructions; an explicit act of violence; explicit and
implicit:implied, rather than expressly stated:
Now can you show me where it explicitly says all that your saying? Now I heard in one place that man
can make the bible say what they want it to say but not explicitly only implicity. but to the true beleivers we know and understand that
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
implicit:implied, rather than expressly stated:
Now can you show me where it explicitly says all that your saying? Now I heard in one place that man
can make the bible say what they want it to say but not explicitly only implicity. but to the true beleivers we know and understand that
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
L
Psa 37:37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace. The man Jesus, the one who we pattern our lives after
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Don't you know that God praying to himself is a contradition to the scriptures. Man is always looking for a mystery, always looking for a clue, always tring to read between the lines. Well the only way to truley understand God is through his spirit. Now Jesus Prayed to God always and it wasn't so someone could write about, but it was for himself. He needed strength like we need strength. Be blessed and pray for your answers. Do you not believe that he will answer you?
Try him and see
Please see these verses to decide for yourself about the Trinity.
All the citations are from the King James Bible.
Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." (Many saw Jesus' face and lived; therefore, how could Jesus be God?) Compare John 5:36.
Psalms 110:1 "The Lord [Yahweh or Jehovah] said unto my [David's] Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (We note here that the instructions were given by the Father [Jehovah] to the Son [David's Lord]; this order is never reversed in Scripture, with the Father always preeminent. See p. 7 for comments on Matt. 22:42-43, wherein Jesus discourses with the Jews on the meaning of Ps. 110:1.)
Proverbs 8:22-30 "The Lord possessed [created, see Strong's] me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." See Rev. 3:14.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong's, #410, 'strength, mighty, Almighty,' applicable 'to any deity'], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (Christ is appropriately called "Father" from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—lifegiver to the race—and "source of eternal salvation" (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the "root" (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (God does not give His glory to another. In contrast, Jesus invites the saints to share his glory as a bride.) See Romans 6:3-6; 8:17, 18; Col. 3:4; 1 John 3:2.
Dan. 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
Matt. 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (We note that it was the Father, speaking from heaven, who indicated His good pleasure in His Son upon the earth. Jesus always strove to be pleasing to his Father, to carry out His will, and to receive His commendation and approval. The Scriptures never reverse this relationship, always giving the Father the preeminence.)
Matt. 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (James 1:13 states "God cannot be tempted!") See Luke 4:1, 2, 13.
Matt. 10:40 "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
Matt. 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Matt. 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
Matt. 20:23 "And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup . . . but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." (Jesus lacked authority in this matter.)
Matt. 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (This demonstrates that God and Jesus are not equal in knowledge!) See also John 7:16; 12:50; 17:8.
Matt. 26:39 "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." (This verse implies Jesus had one will and his Father had another. Two different wills imply two different beings!) See also Matt. 26:42; John 5:19-22.
Matt. 27:46 "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, La-ma sa-bach-tha-ni? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ( If Jesus were God . . . had he forsaken himself? Is this logical? Clearly, Jesus was speaking to another being, his Father.)
Matt. 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Jesus was given power not previously possessed.)
Mark 1:24 "What have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." (The unclean spirit knew Jesus was not God but rather the Holy One of God.)
Mark 12:36 "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost [Spirit], The Lord [Jehovah] said to my [David's] Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Hebrews 1:13 identifies the Lord Jesus as the one who sits on the right hand of the Lord God.)
Luke 2:49 "And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (How and why should Jesus increase in favor with himself?)
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son [many manuscripts read "only begotten God"], which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (The following verses confirm that Jesus died for our sins! Rom. 5:10; Romans 14:9; Acts 3:15; Col. 1:15, 18; Rev. 1:5, 18; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 John 4:9, 14; Rev. 5:9)
John 3:34, 35 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (Jesus was seeking another being's will—not his own!)
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 8:17-19 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." (Note there was no third witness—only the Father and the Son. Jesus omits the holy Spirit. Why?)
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (Note John 17:21, 22.) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (This would have been the perfect place to state that he was, indeed, God the Father.)
John 14:1 "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." (An unnecessary injunction for those who believe in the Trinity.)
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (Would this make Jesus' disciples a part of the Trinity? Shown here is the oneness of the family of God—not a oneness of person, but oneness of purpose and will.) Compare John 17:21-22.
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (How can the Father be greater than Jesus, if Jesus and his Father are equal? Admittedly, some Trinitarians recognize Christ was inferior in flesh. Even so, then his sacrifice on the cross was less than God. How could Jesus in flesh be "co-equal" with God?) See 1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (If Christ's true followers are to be "one" as are God and Jesus, could that oneness be anything more than "oneness" of purpose and will? Could we be a part of the Trinity? See also John 17:21-23.)
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (Jesus had a God and brethren. God has no God and no brethren!) See Eph. 1:17; Rev. 3:12; Mark 15:34; 1 Cor. 15:24 (Rotherham's).
Acts 3:15 "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses." (Isn't it logical to conclude the one that was dead is separate from the One who raised him from the dead?) See 1 Cor. 15:12-21; Acts 2:24; 5:30; 7:56; 13:34 and Col. 2:12.
Acts 7:55, 56 "But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost [Spirit], looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (God and Jesus are twice depicted separately. Stephen was "full of the Holy Spirit" but did not see the holy Spirit. God and Jesus were not everywhere either, but Jesus was "standing on the right hand of God" in heaven.)
Acts 12:22 "And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god [theos], and not of a man." (King Herod was referred to as "[a] god"— "a" is supplied by translators and is not in the text. This is the same Greek word for god [theos] which in other places is used of Christ. It is defined as "gods, objects of worship, judges," and is used variously to depict Jehovah, Satan, the saints, and idols, as well as Christ.) See also Acts 28:6—in reference to Paul.
Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost [Spirit] hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (God is a Spirit and Spirits do not have flesh and blood [Luke 24:39]. Rotherham reads: "With the blood of his own [son]"; Revised Standard Version, footnote: "With the blood of his own son"; Barclay: "At the price of the blood of his own One.") See also Marshall's Diaglott and Concordant.
Rom. 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." See Rom. 4:24; 7:4.
Rom. 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ." (Could Christ be his own heir? How, then, could we be joint-heirs with him?)
Rom. 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Rom. 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
1 Cor. 8:5, 6 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (All things are OF the Father and BY the son. Jesus is the agent of God.) Compare Heb. 1:1, 2; John 1:2, 3; Col. 1:16, 17; Gen. 1:26.
1 Cor. 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (God, Christ, man and woman are all separate entities.)
1 Cor. 15:27, 28 "For he [God] hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (These verses distinguish two separate beings: namely, the Father and His son. How could God place all things under His feet to subdue all things, and then later become subject to Himself? This defies reason.)
Eph. 1:20-22 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church."
Eph. 3:9, 10 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." (If Jesus was God incarnate, what possible reason would God have had to create all things from the beginning of time by Jesus Christ?)
Eph. 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (One God and Father of "all"—the "all" includes Jesus.)
Philip. 2:5, 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (Revised Standard Version: "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Can anyone try to be equal with himself? Rather, Jesus did not strive by vainglory to grasp God's preeminence.)
Philip. 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." (If Jesus were God, who would God have to become obedient to? No one! Therefore, this must be another entity, namely, his only begotten Son, clearly distinguishable from the Heavenly Father.)
Col. 1:13-17 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
1 Tim. 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (A mediator is one who endeavors to reconcile two opposing parties. Could Christ be God and still mediate between God and men? Ransom here means a "corresponding price." How could a God-man be the exact equivalent of the perfect man Adam?)
1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [hos, who] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (Nearly all ancient MSS, and all the versions have "He who," [referring to Christ] instead of "God," in this passage. Sir Isaac Newton wrote a paper stating that this verse is a false reading. The Concordant Bible, p.18: "In the Sinaitic there can be no doubt that it originally read 'who.' A late corrector has added 'God' above the line.")
Heb. 1:2-5 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (If Jesus was God, how could he have "by inheritance obtain[ed] a more excellent name?" Clearly, one does not inherit that which he already possesses!)
Heb. 1:8, 9 "But unto the Son he [the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy [Jesus'] God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (What "fellows" was Jesus anointed above? Two Gods are involved here—the greater, Yahweh, anointing the lesser, Jesus. This exaltation of Jesus takes place after he demonstrates he "loved righteousness" and "hated iniquity." No one contests that Jesus is a God. Remember, the greater always anoints the lesser, as is here demonstrated.)
Heb. 2:10 "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (God the Father has always been perfect and did not require the experience of suffering to crystallize His character. Jesus, by way of contrast, did require this development.)
All the citations are from the King James Bible.
Exodus 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." (Many saw Jesus' face and lived; therefore, how could Jesus be God?) Compare John 5:36.
Psalms 110:1 "The Lord [Yahweh or Jehovah] said unto my [David's] Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (We note here that the instructions were given by the Father [Jehovah] to the Son [David's Lord]; this order is never reversed in Scripture, with the Father always preeminent. See p. 7 for comments on Matt. 22:42-43, wherein Jesus discourses with the Jews on the meaning of Ps. 110:1.)
Proverbs 8:22-30 "The Lord possessed [created, see Strong's] me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: when he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: when he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." See Rev. 3:14.
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong's, #410, 'strength, mighty, Almighty,' applicable 'to any deity'], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." (Christ is appropriately called "Father" from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—lifegiver to the race—and "source of eternal salvation" (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the "root" (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (God does not give His glory to another. In contrast, Jesus invites the saints to share his glory as a bride.) See Romans 6:3-6; 8:17, 18; Col. 3:4; 1 John 3:2.
Dan. 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
Matt. 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (We note that it was the Father, speaking from heaven, who indicated His good pleasure in His Son upon the earth. Jesus always strove to be pleasing to his Father, to carry out His will, and to receive His commendation and approval. The Scriptures never reverse this relationship, always giving the Father the preeminence.)
Matt. 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." (James 1:13 states "God cannot be tempted!") See Luke 4:1, 2, 13.
Matt. 10:40 "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
Matt. 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
Matt. 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
Matt. 20:23 "And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup . . . but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father." (Jesus lacked authority in this matter.)
Matt. 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (This demonstrates that God and Jesus are not equal in knowledge!) See also John 7:16; 12:50; 17:8.
Matt. 26:39 "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." (This verse implies Jesus had one will and his Father had another. Two different wills imply two different beings!) See also Matt. 26:42; John 5:19-22.
Matt. 27:46 "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, La-ma sa-bach-tha-ni? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ( If Jesus were God . . . had he forsaken himself? Is this logical? Clearly, Jesus was speaking to another being, his Father.)
Matt. 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Jesus was given power not previously possessed.)
Mark 1:24 "What have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God." (The unclean spirit knew Jesus was not God but rather the Holy One of God.)
Mark 12:36 "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost [Spirit], The Lord [Jehovah] said to my [David's] Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Hebrews 1:13 identifies the Lord Jesus as the one who sits on the right hand of the Lord God.)
Luke 2:49 "And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (How and why should Jesus increase in favor with himself?)
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son [many manuscripts read "only begotten God"], which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (The following verses confirm that Jesus died for our sins! Rom. 5:10; Romans 14:9; Acts 3:15; Col. 1:15, 18; Rev. 1:5, 18; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 John 4:9, 14; Rev. 5:9)
John 3:34, 35 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."
John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (Jesus was seeking another being's will—not his own!)
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (Two wills—two beings.)
John 7:16-18 "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."
John 8:17-19 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." (Note there was no third witness—only the Father and the Son. Jesus omits the holy Spirit. Why?)
John 8:42-44 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
John 10:29 "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (Note John 17:21, 22.) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (This would have been the perfect place to state that he was, indeed, God the Father.)
John 14:1 "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." (An unnecessary injunction for those who believe in the Trinity.)
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." (Would this make Jesus' disciples a part of the Trinity? Shown here is the oneness of the family of God—not a oneness of person, but oneness of purpose and will.) Compare John 17:21-22.
John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (How can the Father be greater than Jesus, if Jesus and his Father are equal? Admittedly, some Trinitarians recognize Christ was inferior in flesh. Even so, then his sacrifice on the cross was less than God. How could Jesus in flesh be "co-equal" with God?) See 1 Cor. 3:23; 11:3.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (If Christ's true followers are to be "one" as are God and Jesus, could that oneness be anything more than "oneness" of purpose and will? Could we be a part of the Trinity? See also John 17:21-23.)
John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God." (Jesus had a God and brethren. God has no God and no brethren!) See Eph. 1:17; Rev. 3:12; Mark 15:34; 1 Cor. 15:24 (Rotherham's).
Acts 3:15 "And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses." (Isn't it logical to conclude the one that was dead is separate from the One who raised him from the dead?) See 1 Cor. 15:12-21; Acts 2:24; 5:30; 7:56; 13:34 and Col. 2:12.
Acts 7:55, 56 "But he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Ghost [Spirit], looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (God and Jesus are twice depicted separately. Stephen was "full of the Holy Spirit" but did not see the holy Spirit. God and Jesus were not everywhere either, but Jesus was "standing on the right hand of God" in heaven.)
Acts 12:22 "And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god [theos], and not of a man." (King Herod was referred to as "[a] god"— "a" is supplied by translators and is not in the text. This is the same Greek word for god [theos] which in other places is used of Christ. It is defined as "gods, objects of worship, judges," and is used variously to depict Jehovah, Satan, the saints, and idols, as well as Christ.) See also Acts 28:6—in reference to Paul.
Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost [Spirit] hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (God is a Spirit and Spirits do not have flesh and blood [Luke 24:39]. Rotherham reads: "With the blood of his own [son]"; Revised Standard Version, footnote: "With the blood of his own son"; Barclay: "At the price of the blood of his own One.") See also Marshall's Diaglott and Concordant.
Rom. 8:11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." See Rom. 4:24; 7:4.
Rom. 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ." (Could Christ be his own heir? How, then, could we be joint-heirs with him?)
Rom. 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
Rom. 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
1 Cor. 8:5, 6 "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (All things are OF the Father and BY the son. Jesus is the agent of God.) Compare Heb. 1:1, 2; John 1:2, 3; Col. 1:16, 17; Gen. 1:26.
1 Cor. 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (God, Christ, man and woman are all separate entities.)
1 Cor. 15:27, 28 "For he [God] hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he [God] is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him [God] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." (These verses distinguish two separate beings: namely, the Father and His son. How could God place all things under His feet to subdue all things, and then later become subject to Himself? This defies reason.)
Eph. 1:20-22 "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church."
Eph. 3:9, 10 "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." (If Jesus was God incarnate, what possible reason would God have had to create all things from the beginning of time by Jesus Christ?)
Eph. 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (One God and Father of "all"—the "all" includes Jesus.)
Philip. 2:5, 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (Revised Standard Version: "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Can anyone try to be equal with himself? Rather, Jesus did not strive by vainglory to grasp God's preeminence.)
Philip. 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." (If Jesus were God, who would God have to become obedient to? No one! Therefore, this must be another entity, namely, his only begotten Son, clearly distinguishable from the Heavenly Father.)
Col. 1:13-17 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
1 Tim. 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." (A mediator is one who endeavors to reconcile two opposing parties. Could Christ be God and still mediate between God and men? Ransom here means a "corresponding price." How could a God-man be the exact equivalent of the perfect man Adam?)
1 Tim. 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [hos, who] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (Nearly all ancient MSS, and all the versions have "He who," [referring to Christ] instead of "God," in this passage. Sir Isaac Newton wrote a paper stating that this verse is a false reading. The Concordant Bible, p.18: "In the Sinaitic there can be no doubt that it originally read 'who.' A late corrector has added 'God' above the line.")
Heb. 1:2-5 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" (If Jesus was God, how could he have "by inheritance obtain[ed] a more excellent name?" Clearly, one does not inherit that which he already possesses!)
Heb. 1:8, 9 "But unto the Son he [the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy [Jesus'] God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (What "fellows" was Jesus anointed above? Two Gods are involved here—the greater, Yahweh, anointing the lesser, Jesus. This exaltation of Jesus takes place after he demonstrates he "loved righteousness" and "hated iniquity." No one contests that Jesus is a God. Remember, the greater always anoints the lesser, as is here demonstrated.)
Heb. 2:10 "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (God the Father has always been perfect and did not require the experience of suffering to crystallize His character. Jesus, by way of contrast, did require this development.)
Maybe because we Atheists, agnostics, Hindus, and every other non bigoted culture believe in morality once you finally read your filth(a.k.a. Bible) which has been edited over hundreds of years and copied many different times, Once you read this non fictional piece of junk, you'll realize how god is just an evil tyrannical bully, how he and his book promote murder, rape, slavery, and hate for everything non christian, you'll realize, maybe where this religion came from( a remote part of the world at the time) is fake and a lie and a disgrace to the human race.
Okay, read it...?
Tell me who was the Father speaking to in Genesis 1:26 when He said "Let US make man in OUR image..." or at the tower of Babel In Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
I could go on, but I will leave you with those two for now...
Tell me who was the Father speaking to in Genesis 1:26 when He said "Let US make man in OUR image..." or at the tower of Babel In Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
I could go on, but I will leave you with those two for now...
I has posted this on another post about the Trinity:
With these three forces that are combined as one can complete the job. Spirits are unlimited. They can separate from each other, and they can also conjoin. When a man and a woman has sexual relation together that they become one in the physical nature, but we are limited because our flesh prevents us from conjoining. These verses are saying that the nature of the spirits are unlimited.
John 3:8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Satan is a spirit, and even he can conjoin with flesh.
John 13:27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
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Our perception on how satan had enter into Judas is through the part of the body that the sun had never shined on. But the spirits can combined into one and or combined with the flesh as one which means that the person is possessed with a good or a bad spirit.
Matthew 8:31The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.” ( Just letting us know that the spirits are unlimited, they can move freely at desire and which desire means will.)
With these three forces that are combined as one can complete the job. Spirits are unlimited. They can separate from each other, and they can also conjoin. When a man and a woman has sexual relation together that they become one in the physical nature, but we are limited because our flesh prevents us from conjoining. These verses are saying that the nature of the spirits are unlimited.
John 3:8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Satan is a spirit, and even he can conjoin with flesh.
John 13:27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”
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Our perception on how satan had enter into Judas is through the part of the body that the sun had never shined on. But the spirits can combined into one and or combined with the flesh as one which means that the person is possessed with a good or a bad spirit.
Matthew 8:31The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.” ( Just letting us know that the spirits are unlimited, they can move freely at desire and which desire means will.)
To whom did Christ pray? Himself?
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
To whom will Christ be subject to? Himself?
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Us? Our?
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
To whom will Christ be subject to? Himself?
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Us? Our?
I don't know if any of y'all ever debated within yourself about making a decision on a certain topic or an issue that plagues your mind. We have a positive and an negative thought and which the negatives thoughts are the fruits of the devil. God has only positive thought (fruits) that makes good judgement without errors.
1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 9:15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
John 17
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved themeven as you have loved me.
Samuel 19:3
And I will go out and stand beside my father in the field where you are, and I will speak to my father about you. And if I learn anything I will tell you.”
<strong>[video=youtube_share;2HhmByGRv6U]http://youtu.be/2HhmByGRv6U[/video]
1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 9:15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
John 17
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved themeven as you have loved me.
Samuel 19:3
And I will go out and stand beside my father in the field where you are, and I will speak to my father about you. And if I learn anything I will tell you.”
<strong>[video=youtube_share;2HhmByGRv6U]http://youtu.be/2HhmByGRv6U[/video]
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
You are contradicting yourself,first you say Jesus told his disciples he was God and part of the trinity but they were not to tell anybody then you say God,who is also jesus,has called on thousands of evangelist to spread the word of Christianity throughout the world? You also say proof of the trinity can be made because Paul wrote letters to churches of saved people so could be more open and used the same words for Jesus as had been used for God in the OT,I say so what? Just because Paul says jesus is Also God dosent make it true! You say jesus told the pharasies they would die in there sins if they didn't belive he was god,how come jesus spoke so plainly and literally to them but in parables to everyone else including his disciples and who recorded this? Who was with him to hear him say these words? He couldn't of related this story to anyone other than his disciples and they were under orders not to tell anyone else he was god? If the pharasies were the authors of this story how does it get into the bible? It's not inspired? Merely hinting at somthing in the OT ? I don't think so,anyone with a bit of imagination can make some of the OT prophesies relate to thousands of different subjects or people,indeed,some of the so called messianic phrophesise can also relate to events in the time they were written down,a thousand years befor jesus was born?