Forgiven or not?

Welshman · Oct 6, 2013

Yes indeed if a certain topic was at play I most certainly would. Bt that's not the case if I wanted a debate on theology and scripture then yes bt some on here just chucking scripture at almost every point ? Wat for ? Self importance, ego self reinforcement I could go on bt alas I still think you'll have to have the last word as it seems your intent bt not for me brother not at all as I said if this is edifying to anyone , anyone at all ?, if you've replies that have said so please show me I might change my approach bt I think your writings are spurious at best and egotist driven more than a desire to show Jesus love through your writings. That's me dne I simply wnt reply no more amen

RedTent · Oct 6, 2013

The road that God lays outfor us is narrow. It is open for all, but it is easy to miss the way. There are many opinions given in this post, often two will say they oppose each other when in fact both are correct.

It is pointed out that we are forgiven saved only by God’s grace, but even though that is true, we cannot allow sin in our life and still keep His grace. We must do (work) what God says and at the same time we are only saved by God supernaturally making us clean through our worship of Him, not by works.

I like to think of the basins of water Jews kept by the entrance to their home to use for ceremonial cleansing. In Hebrews, it tells us to abandon these, forget them. That was because we must know that it is only Christ who can cleanse, not what they do physically. We obey that scripture and never think of physically bathing in relation to Christ cleansing. We never relate the two actions. Yet we are able to relate the physical action of being baptized in a ceremony with receiving the Holy Spirit. Washing our hands could never in any way give us pardon for our sins, but if we thought of Christ cleansing us when we physically cleanse hands, the washing of hands could be a big help to us.

It is brought out that God will forgive anyone who asks, and that is so. At the same time, Christ cannot forgive a person who will not forgive others but keeps for himself what is only for God’s to do. We have to go to Christ as He is, we can’t make up something in our own minds to go to.

Welshman · Oct 6, 2013

Just in response to red tent and his reply I agree totally with wat he says and not one scripture in his piece bt he makes the points aptly? I notice no criticism from those who were giving it large to me for not using many scriptures to support my posts ? Further evidence that some and you know who you are that your egos are awash with your own suppositions and feel the need to boast surreptitiously to weaker Christians and new born in Christ just to elevate intellect above the points in question bt well said red tent bt beware there are some in here who love to argue and seek not the love of Christ to be shared on this forum bt kudos for themselves ....amen

Welshman · Oct 6, 2013

Just reeling verse upon verse of scripture proves nothing bt good memory recall a facet of the human mind it reflects nothing about the spirit and to what measure of spirit is given to millions of gods children at differing stages of thier walk, rather it says to me as I've said many times how are we to know we're the individual is regards to thier walk with our lord? A mentally ill person may indeed have a heart for god bt not the mental capacity to recall scripture at will and may The Lord forgive those on here condemning many to hell and judgement via thier versions of context meaning, and mis application of scriptures on this forum? Who are ye to judge who are you to know we're each one is with god , these are the reasons I wnt endlessly type to such love one another is the sum of our lords commands for perfect love casts aside all other things, another situation for the so called seniors on here The Lord himself says no greater love there is than a man lay down his life for a friend or another ?, what if this persons doctrine is somewhat imperfect does this mean the man who gave his life did it in vain? Will god say to that man I know I said no greater love and all that bt your not upto scratch with scripture yet my child so therefore your choice to die and save another is invalid? Indeed not ... Thank god he sees his way not mans way? I'm deliberately not using scripture just to write my way to make a point ... Christians on here I doubt some really are.... Amen

Welshman · Oct 6, 2013

And if they are Christians well time to have a another search of your own heart and reasons why your here if it ain't to edify all and to treat all in love and respect . This is not the case as far as I've read and as stated patterns show through over time we have doctrinal experts so called on here bt doctrinal perfection never saved anyone did it ? No? The Lord drawing some to himself starts not with doctrine bt with the response of the person to wateva The Lord has revealed to him, The Lord is not looking for people with perfect doctrine bt a willing and contrite heart he is searching for . The scribes and Pharisees knew scripture brilliantly bt their hearts were far from him I see similar on here I'm afraid and as I've said in a recent exam on a scripture and application I scored 924 out of 1000 nt perfect no bt when I feel its needed and appropriate I will add the appropriate verse bt not to gain self kudos as some indeed do ..... Amen

in2it · Oct 6, 2013

Welshman said:

Welshman,
Although I agree with some of what you say I think you should not be so easily offended.
Use it as a way to search the scriptures within the context of what is being discussed. It will only be a negative experience if you allow it.
I won't quote the scripture because I know you know that all things happen for the Glory of God. If you get offended in a thread just go to another, but please don't leave with you feelings hurt.
Whether or not everyone would admit it or not we are all growing in the faith and this forum helps us.

Welshman · Oct 7, 2013

Well said my friend point taken I'm not trying to be awkward god knows I'm not bt I am trying to establish the heart over doctrine that's all I was trying to state and I add doctrine never saved anyone conversion is key for the person to whom our lord draws near ...

Welshman · Oct 7, 2013

Also the tone of some writers is enough to send an inquiring person who may be reading these posts to run a mile they are laced with judgement not love, pre supposed ideals are at play unswerving belief that some will not relent a single point or retort frm others? We're is the love in our words were is the edification , were is compassion, I could go on to extrapolate much more such as the language context and much more bt I'm not here for such as this . I joined to assess the true love and nature of fellow men and sisters on here I joined to see wat view of true Christ centred believers are talking about , were we are in time wat is ahead for all humanity and other things and yet wat do I find doctrine doctrine and more doctrine frm some as a proofreader I've asked certain questions only to be bombarded by diversive replies to questions I never even asked? This worries me greatly 2corinthians 9 v15 thanks be to god for his incredible gifts? Not intellect not doctrine all is from god we are as rags before the almighty I could add many more verses bt I won't I'm not into competing who's recall of scripture is best I was just making the case for heart over doctrine??? In2 it ( person) thank you for your words my friend...

Welshman · Oct 7, 2013

Il try my best not to be offended brother I'm sensitive to attitude that's all especially of those in the faith, or allegedly being so, but The Lord knows his own, true Christians those who respond to the lords calling in wateva measure they strive to do, or to the best they can understand are never the less christs not less than those called before not better just as the rest they are christs he alone rides the inner parts and tests the motives of each of us , it is all of him not of ourselves I feel some on here think they are the mouthpiece and judge of our lord in an earthly realm, this I find distasteful as a person who is interested in language , context, hermeneutics , this is why I rage against a doctrinal approach to winning hearts n minds to the message of our lord in these days .... Amen . I also will say I will remain here il alter my approach so as not to be too touchy and hope I can contribute still may I apologise to any if I offended anyone not that I'm aware I have bt if it is so I very sorry if any one can point to we're I was offensive please do so I have chance to make amends or change my wording... Much love to all out there on the beautiful earth...amen

Welshman · Oct 7, 2013

Jeremiah 15 v 19 ????? My Favourite book in the bible ? We're are the Jeremiah,s today learning men to weep before god praying even wen god forbid him do so such love did he have for his people Jeremiah wept relentlessly because of what he seen in his day like myself today may god make us to be more like him amen

brmicke · Oct 7, 2013

I am just trying to obey Jesus like every other Christian.

Kerry · Oct 7, 2013

brmicke said:

I was wondering, how does one obey Jesus? Can we obey Him? Can we keep a commandment? Can we be perfect?

Kerry · Oct 7, 2013

How does one live for God?

brmicke · Oct 7, 2013

Kerry's quote -

1. I feel we obey Jesus by doing what He says -

Lu 10:27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

1Co 13:4 ¶ Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; (RSV)
1Co 13:5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; (RSV)
1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. (RSV)

We are commanded to act in a manner consistent with 1 Cor 13:4-6 in our relationships with God and Man.

2. I think it is possible to obey Him.

3. Basing my opinion on Deut 30:11 and 1 Jn 5:3 - I feel that a Christian can keep God's commandments.

4. Can we be perfect? Again basing my opinion on scripture - on this topic I refer to Mt:5:48.

Mt 5:48 Be <esomai> ye <humeis> therefore <oun> perfect, <teleios> even <hosper> as your <humon> Father <pater> which <ho> is in <en> heaven <ouranos> is <esti> perfect. <teleios>

The Greek word translated as "perfect" means "complete". It is the concept of something that Has reached the goal. So since Christians are commanded to be "perfect" or "complete" - and basing my opinion on this verse I conclude that it is possible to be complete, because I don't think Jesus would command us to do something we were not capable of doing, with His empowerment of course.

Since nothing we are commanded to do in scripture is to be done without God's empowerment is also conclude that the only way for a person to be "complete" is to be "in Christ".

1 Timothy 1:5 says that the end or goal of the commandment is Love from a pure heart etc.

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

In my opinion this is the goal or point to be aimed at. I see this verse as the scriptural definition of the concept that is conveyed when we are told to be "Perfect".

5. How does one live for God? By following Jesus as Jesus alluded to in Mt 19:21.

Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Just to be clear in expressing my opinion on Matt 19:21 - I don't think everyone has to sell all their belongings, I feel that this was specific to the person Jesus was addressing at that time. I do however think everyone has to follow Jesus to be perfect or complete.

I intend to Honor the Lord Jesus and adhere to the Bible by using His words and the sayings of the bible (and not my own words), when I post in this forum. My intention is genuinely not to cast negative aspersions towards anyone.

brmicke · Oct 7, 2013

The Greek word translated as "end" in 1 Tim 1:5 is the same geek word translated as "perfect" in Mt 5:48.

Mt 5:48 Be <esomai> ye <humeis> therefore <oun> perfect, <teleios> even <hosper> as your <humon> Father <pater> which <ho> is in <en> heaven <ouranos> is <esti> perfect. <teleios>

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now <de> the end <telos> of the commandment <paraggelia> is <esti> charity <agape> out of <ek> a pure <katharos> heart, <kardia> and <kai> of a good <agathos> conscience, <suneidesis> and <kai> of faith <pistis> unfeigned: <anupo
kritos>

When Jesus told the person to be perfect in Mt 19:21 the person had already told Jesus that He kept all the commandments but Jesus said in addition that He had to follow Him.

Mt 19:16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mt 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mt 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mt 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

In addition I would like to say that as I struggle to constantly pray and study the bible these discussions serve as my daily bible study times. These discussions are just one more way that I keep myself focused on the Jesus and His word. So it is very helpful to me to have these discussions.

Cobus · Oct 8, 2013

Kerry said:

Kerry I hope you will find this answer to God's liking....
NO PERSON CAN LIVE FOR GOD! But all who DIE FOR HIM will FIND A HOLY EVERLASTING LIFE!

homwardbound · Oct 8, 2013

So bottom line are we forgiven or not, from God, and by God through Son.
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP][a][/SUP] your evil behavior. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Thanks and there is no right or wrong answer

john832 · Oct 8, 2013

Kerry said:

there is a difference between one who has a heart to obey and one that does not. No one obeys perfectly (Christ excepted), but God looks on the heart...

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So waddya think? Is it better to determine to obey to the best of your ability or just decide I can't do this?

Welshman · Oct 8, 2013

Even attaining the very very best we can do in this body , is not of ourselves it is the spirit working in us to make us more Christlike unto the day were we reach perfection and this cannot happen in this body we will need be clothed with a spirit body and then and only then were to will is not even present with us.1corinth 15 v53 for this body must put on immortality? Unsullied obedience cannot be reached in this flesh were to will is with us we dnt choose well and sin is in the flesh bt no sin will be in our new bodies . Let everything that breathes praise The Lord amen

Welshman · Oct 8, 2013

But endless preoccupation with the letter of the law we need to always focus on the meaning and spirit of the law and the law is summed up in one ? Love one another this is the greatest command and for me sums up our lord ? Let there be no backbiting of those in the faith lest we cut ourselves asunder from the goal we've bn set ... Not one is god no not one all have gne astray and departed from the path we must all walk together oh how deep is the mind and heart of our lord amen as I've said not gna write endless scripture I'm just trying speak plainly and I'm conscious of the new Christians recently being called and inquisitive visitors not to the more learned on here just to emphasise why I write as I do but I write in love to all who read amen

Forgiven or not?

Welshman

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brmicke

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