Forgiven or not?

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

that by the death of Christ we are to reckon as dead, thus alive to God in the Spirit of God daily.
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

See the allegory dead to Law free to marry Christ whom is the fulfillment of law, and we can now serve in the Spirit of God.

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

vincejohn said:

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and out of your mouth you condemn, when :
2 Corinthians 10:5 casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2 Corinthians 10:6 and having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Who are you to condemn anyone, are you not, or have not you been convicted? Are you above the Law? I can and am free to do whatever I choose. Now my choice is to not harm my neighbor and I trust God in this, and God has be smothered and covered in this.
The Devil stands outside the throne of grace, and tries to convict any and all that approach it in their time of need, to keep anyone from going in on their own free will.
Jesus, being at the right hand of God sitting at rest, has his hand up, as to stop the Devil, enemy, and flesh to not enter into the throne of grace. And says to those go in to those that are in their time of need. Now for me I am in need constant.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

vincejohn said:

So, you plant the thought, so that weak flesh will fall, kind of like the movie "the devils advocate". a very enlightening show. The Devil can do nothing but set the stage. As you just did to unsuspecting others, whether you know this or not is not the issue. It just needed to be exposed and now is, and you can decide how to respond, this is as well your free will as well.
Thanks from Homwardbound

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

brmicke said:

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:30 seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Galatians 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

And this justification brings forth God's works through the person that walks by Faith as Christ walked

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

regardless, whether one sins or not, are we forgiven or not? Is the ? posed and scripture followed. Now Iam speaking from God's vantage point, not man's through Christ, did he or did he not take on the sin of the whole world, regardless of how anyone views it, it is either fact or it is not fact?

1 Corinthians 4:6

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1 Corinthians 4:18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
1 Corinthians 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind

homwardbound · Oct 5, 2013

TheBlackRider said:

When a person has become saved by Jesus Christ--they believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for THEIR sins after Jesus had lived a perfect sinless life, and that He rose from the dead three days later--They become saved and their "old self" is crucified with Christ.

In Romans 6:5-7, it says:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [SUP]7 [/SUP]because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

This clearly states that we need to give Christ our sinful desires, and everyone who BELIEVES ON THE LORD as their Savior will be SET FREE FROM SIN.

HOWEVER, it does NOT mean that we are not going to sin. We are still human and we all have fleshly desires. It's not a matter of whether or not you can stay Christ-centered, or for HOW LONG you can go without sin. Hardly!
Rather, we rejoice in the fact that NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE FAIL, Christ's love is still there to pick us back up onto the right path.

Ephesians 4: 22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; [SUP]23 [/SUP]to be made new in the attitude of your minds;

We need to GIVE GOD our sinful desires, and ASK HIM to fill us with the desires of His heart. It's this mindset that makes us Christians in word AND deed.

Colossians 3:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices [SUP]10 [/SUP]and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

BUT: keep this in mind
As Christians, we need to try our best to focus on Christ and him alone. DO NOT THINK that you can commit sin on purpose and ONLY remember that "Christ FORGIVES". This is true---but keep in mind. GOD is also JUST. YOU CANNOT just preach about a God of LOVE and MERCY and FORGIVENESS, without also preaching about the GOD OF JUSTICE, HOLINESS, POWER, MAJESTY, etc.

Deliberately sinning because we know that Christ always forgives is NOT a thing that Christians should do. Rather, we NEED to ask GOD to forgive us and HELP US to continue on the way to Righteousness.

One video that i thought was pretty helpful in this was:
<span id="en-NIV-29296" class="text Eph-4-23">[video=youtube;1f1RybkzvVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f1RybkzvVs[/video]
It has Romanian subtitles...@_@ couldn't find a version w/o it...but i hope it helps you guys!

GOD IS LOVE.
GOD IS JUST.
GOD IS HOLY.

so yes and how?
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Cobus · Oct 5, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

Going against a few Scriptures with this statement....
1. 1 JOhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

2. 1 Joh 5:18... We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

3. 2 Cor 5:17... Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

4. 2 Peter 1:10... Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

And many more, but this one is the MOST DEFINATE.
Eze 36:26 and 27.... If God CAUSE a person to KEEP HIS STATUTES,,,, do you think such a person will EVER sin again? Remember this person is BORN OF GOD... I do not think GENES are human, but GODLY!!!

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Please note that GOD is the One that puts the new heart in, and GOD'S Spirit is the spirit in the person... God's GENES? Yep! And God is the ONE THAT CAUSE this person to KEEP HIS JUDGMENT....

brmicke · Oct 5, 2013

eternally-gratefull said:

You have to call sin what the bible calls sin. We are not free to redefine the bible. You are adding to the bible when you choose your own definitions for biblical concepts.

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

Well all I sear here is a doctrinal fight goin on here , one saying this verse means this another saying no it means the other one trying to tell another I'm right on this the other saying your wrong very argumentative tones and it looks to me one wnt be satisfied until one admits he was wrong so the can gleefully tick another off as a victory for himself in the doctrine of gods word? You may well totally both believe what and how you interpret scripture you may well believe your right and you have to prove your right by using verse after verse to support your arguments bt today its not a question of doctrine its a matter of the heart? Jesus is and has been searching the hearts of his people since he came in the flesh doctrinal debates have raged since bt this is not what Jesus is really looking at when he draws one of his children to true knowledge no? The response to the truth is what is primary then when character is renewed good works come forth then dependent on depth of spirit and the measure given will determine responsibility of the individual not doctrinal knowledge in absolute detail, thank our lord he doesn't see and reason like man no he searches the intents of the heart and no man can know that about another man , no one... Lets stay on affairs of the heart not the mind and intellect so much many will be dissapointed when our lord returns saying lord lord do you not know me I preached in the temples and synagogue s I taught in your name, and we all know what the response was and is today and will be soon ahead ,? Depart from me I know you not ? The Lord alone knows who are his were they are in him and wat knowledge and standard he will hold them too? Not us not no man just The Lord.doctrine is important to teach bt beware of believing your a teacher let alone your the right teacher? All of us have bn given a measure of faith and its the same faith that allows one to flourish and another to survive circumstances determine that for everyone bt same faith secures both so faith is the key then the response to faith then wateva The Lord directs so you see doctrine is not all that some would like it to be? It has a place in our lives bt is by no means the determinate factor ? God is so wonderfully concerned about one soul he wouldn't let doctrine be the measure by judging his children oh no neither will he let man determine any souls destiny that's why he chose to live in the heart of his children not in thier minds... Amen

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

God knows even his own children son and are going to sin yet he banishes all future sin frm his child at point of true conversion satan and ourselves will always remind us of past sin accuse us of present sin and entice us to future sins bt gods grace and spirit stops the Christian from enslavement to sin with the hope the child learns more n more of the consequences of sin he learns to flee from sin as The Lord empowers? This battle is lifelong it endures to the end and god remembers us as he seen us when he came unto our hearts with truth and revealing himself as a father to us . Sin indeed is in the flesh and so are we bt not subject to it as before conversion. Bt we remain a slave either way we are either a slave to righteousness or a slave to sin bt a slave we remain the difference is in attitude the slave to righteousness is a choice given to us by The Lord we can be a slave to righteousness and not think of it as slavery but of obedience the ultimate desire of a true follower of Jesus should be to obey Jesus our lord, were as bein a slave to sin ends in death as we've already bn warned bt to be a slave to Jesus means eternal life under him, isn't this wat we want? Unsullied obedience were our will and propensity to want to do shouldn't exist?, this way whatever Jesus directs we should want to automatically want to do this is the reason the father and son are one united in purpose desire aims love and he wants to be as he himself as said that we may all be one together its not god living in us its us living and breathing in god? God is everything our beings are in fact in him and his grace bt judgement is ahead and only those who seek holiness internally would want to live as the father wants today's world shows us that not all people want to live holy lives even if they could buy it today some simply wouldn't want it they love life for themselves no thought of thanking god for breathing daily its sad bt true as for me I wish The Lord rule his creation not man and when that day comes all will see how god loves those that are his... Amen

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

Forgiveness is gods gift not apportioned by man to man its gods gift to all of us so we take judgement out of our lives and daily doings , too many Christians claim to be the possessor of forgiveness and like to distribute impartially at best .lets always bear this in mind when talking about what god forgives and whom and why? Are we saying we know the mind of god? I hope not ? We are all as filthy rags compared to the holiness of our lord and would do well to remember that . Jesus is coming soon anyone who knows what this means and still desires its coming best be sure he truly does know Jesus in his heart not pure doctrine or better knowledge than another this will count as nought bt a broken spirit and contrite heart god will not abandon my sheep know my voice says The Lord I believe The Lord really does know his own and many will be shocked at his return look at who Jesus spent time with wen he was here on earth I believe he will be amongst such at his return to the dismay of today's modern priests in fine apparel amen

brmicke · Oct 5, 2013

Eternally Grateful - Don't you see your contradictory thinking Here?

You cling to the verse that says that if you are "born" of God you cannot practice sin and if you practice sin you never knew God, 1 Jn 3:6.

It says whoever sin has NEVER (You do understand what the word never means do you not) Known God. or seen him.

Click to expand...

Yet you also state that Christians cannot go a "day" without sinning.

here is the question for you. Can you go a hour without sin, An afternoon without sin? A day without sin?

If your answer is yes. You do not know God, or what real sin is..

Click to expand...

So by your own mixed up logic you can sin every day and then ask forgiveness and sin the next day then ask forgiveness ....

Is this not practicing sin?

My point is that grace teaches you to abstain from ungodliness or not to sin, titus 2:11-12. So eventually even using your thought process you must see that you will one day be taught by God (and pay attention in class) and stop sinning.

Jesus did not die to sin so you don't have to die to sin, Rm 6:10.
Jesus died to sin so that by the grace of God you could learn not to sin and follow His example.

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

You say my thinking contradictory you say I'm holding onto one scripture also said I said a Christian cannot go an hour without sinning? My friend I've said none of the above so your answers are clearly defunct in fact I never even asked a question you seem well accustomed to framing your answers on questions unasked? Clearly feeds into your projecting answers to your own questions? I wnt even debate such folly your not reading nor replying to anything I said so best luck in your relentless pursuit of doctrine over the realities of each and every child of god . I fear you seek doctrinal thinking above the mystery of the spirit at work in the individual I choose not too it pre supposes you know more than The Lord does about how he works in all his children this to me is error bt far be it from me to pre suppose anything that god does or knows concerning grace and salvation as for sin even if we could manage to not practice any conscious sin whatsoever , that's only the start , the heart is wicked beyond comprehension and all manner of hidden sins are then discovered if not practiced, and even we could supersede that and remove that even still our view of holiness would still not be true or right? Only when we are spirit shall we see how holy a god we seek to serve for he lives in in approachable light that unless we are in spirit we would disintegrate into little molecules.. Bt I beg you my friend dnt put words into my mouth or onto screen that I didn't say or quote then seek give me doctrinal answers to questions I never even put forward... Amen

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

For all shall see and discover in time the methods your using to replies I've looker at your posts there's a pattern to it like there is in all things gradually over time. The pattern flowing from your posts is doctrinal replies verse after verse of a scripture to re enforce the answer to your own questions? Its there take a look bk with an open mind forget wat you know for an hour act like a proofreader looking for false idioms leading questions projection of own ideas rather than impartial scrutiny look at the emphasis the reader is looking for not the writer, look at repetition as a diversive rather than an answer, do this for an hour my friend with an open mind put all your knowledge aside you will discover there is too much of you in your posts your presumptions your evaluation your context your thoughts your interpretations, that's too many yours and you's and not enuf listening not enuf observing the questions asked and not enough veracity to convince me your way of thinking is correct, in fact I'd say as politely and kindly to you my friend you are far from right in your approach nor conclusion as to what god really thinks bt thank god we are not all the same for then we wouldn't be even discussing such things il leave it there my friend but one convert you cudnt convince is moi? Amen

brmicke · Oct 5, 2013

Welshman said:

The statement underlined in your post pasted above is incorrect. God does not banish all future sin from His child at the point of true conversion. Refer to Heb 10:26-27.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Jesus sacrifice does not pertain to "willful" sin.

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Future sins are not forgiven. A sin is only forgiven when and if forgiveness is desired and requested, 1 Jn 1:9.

Christians are to learn "good" from "evil" through use (or experience), Heb 5:14.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

In other words God's judgment upon their willful sin teaches them good from evil (if they pay attention), 1 Cor 11:30

When we sin "willfully" we make ourselves an adversary of God. God visits judgments upon the "willful sin" of His children to teach them not to sin and thereby avoid the condemnation that worldly people will experience. The Judgment is designed to keep the child from being condemned, 1 Cor 11:32.

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If a sin is "willful" the Christian in question may not consider the behavior to be sinful, therefore they will not ask for forgiveness from it. The judgment of God as it is seen in 1 Cor 11:32 is designed to alert the Christian to the fact that the behavior which He considers not to be sinful, actually is sinful behavior.

The temptation satan brings must be resisted by bringing every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, 2 Cor 5:10.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Being tempted is not sin. God permits the devil to tempt us and introduce sinful thoughts into our minds. This can be seen from the example of Jesus being led into the desert to be tempted by the devil.

These sinful thoughts must be recognized as originating from satan and not our own minds. Then they must be taken captive to the obedience of Christ.

Respectfully - Brian

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

Your doing exactly same thing Brian dnt you understand this one simple thing

Grandpa · Oct 5, 2013

Forgiven.

Through the work of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not of our works, lest any boast.

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

I simply wnt type endlessly when you refuse to accept. Even one fundamental in debate my friend ? Listening? You took all sort of inferences from my little post your replies are as I've said re enforcement of more of you we simply cnt get past you in this debate so therefore there is no debate may god bless you nonetheless bt your Christianity certainly not mine too insular too much doctrine too much you I'm afraid I'm not ere to argue endlessly bt to edify by love rampant doctrinal teaching your way will most certainly not achieve that my friend best luck anyway

brmicke · Oct 5, 2013

Welshman said:

You say my thinking contradictory you say I'm holding onto one scripture also said I said a Christian cannot go an hour without sinning? My friend I've said none of the above so your answers are clearly defunct in fact I never even asked a question you seem well accustomed to framing your answers on questions unasked? Clearly feeds into your projecting answers to your own questions? I wnt even debate such folly your not reading nor replying to anything I said so best luck in your relentless pursuit of doctrine over the realities of each and every child of god . I fear you seek doctrinal thinking above the mystery of the spirit at work in the individual I choose not too it pre supposes you know more than The Lord does about how he works in all his children this to me is error bt far be it from me to pre suppose anything that god does or knows concerning grace and salvation as for sin even if we could manage to not practice any conscious sin whatsoever , that's only the start , the heart is wicked beyond comprehension and all manner of hidden sins are then discovered if not practiced, and even we could supersede that and remove that even still our view of holiness would still not be true or right? Only when we are spirit shall we see how holy a god we seek to serve for he lives in in approachable light that unless we are in spirit we would disintegrate into little molecules.. Bt I beg you my friend dnt put words into my mouth or onto screen that I didn't say or quote then seek give me doctrinal answers to questions I never even put forward... Amen

It seems as though you are speaking to me - please know that I was not aware of this, because you never directed any comment to me by name.

Please also know that I directed the comments/quote about the Christian "who cannot go an hour without sinning" towards the person called "Eternally Grateful" and not to you "Welshman".

Please don't start a disagreement with me while I am unaware that it is me you are disagreeing with.

Welshman · Oct 5, 2013

Many are forgiven your not unique my friend bt you write and your tone seem to infer you think you are? No one boasting here bt yet you insert another verse as if reinforce again and again you do it I'm not sure your aware your even doing it as I said patterns they show up after a while

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