Free will and God's will
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The way my mind takes that in is that you are commending yourself for your sight when it wasn't you who gave you your sight...you would have lived and died, never believing, unless your blindness had been healed. That's not a cause to say: yay! I am saved by my good decision! It's cause for saying: oh my gosh, I don't know why He would let me see, He is so merciful!
This is very gross, brother. He didn't say he wanted no scripture. He wanted a personal explanation OF the scripture that was posted too. He wasn't seeking answers outside of scripture. He just wanted the understanding of others ON the scripture they posted as thinking to be relevant. He has done nothing wrong in asking for that. What the heck man...??
I appreciate the response. That's actually the main reasoning behind my post. I graduated last May, but didn't get hired for my first job related to my field until last month. I was only two weeks in until I got severely sick and had to miss a weeks worth of work (I work 3 12 hour night shifts, or worked since I haven't been back). Two weeks ago today actually my job called me saying they were moving me from full-time to per diem. They said the fact I was in the hospital had nothing to do with their decision (which I believe to be a lie, but that's another discussion).
God knows all of our paths from before we were even born. I don't think God spoke to my supervisor and told her to demote my status, though. That is something she did on her own. I guess part of my original question would be do other people's free will interfere with the specific will God has for us individually? Some sort of crime, for example, happens all around us. God doesn't tell one person to commit a sin on another so that His plan will be done for the one being harmed. People choose to do illegal things by their own sinful nature. How would something like that coincide with God's Will?
God knows all of our paths from before we were even born. I don't think God spoke to my supervisor and told her to demote my status, though. That is something she did on her own. I guess part of my original question would be do other people's free will interfere with the specific will God has for us individually? Some sort of crime, for example, happens all around us. God doesn't tell one person to commit a sin on another so that His plan will be done for the one being harmed. People choose to do illegal things by their own sinful nature. How would something like that coincide with God's Will?
Thanks brother. Your posts always have great insight. God's will certainly never go undone. He always finds people whom He calls and leads. Unfortunately, we are our own worst enemies. We oftentimes are the ones who waste the gifts and potential God gives us. He Has plans for all of us, but a lot of us go about either stumbling them away or doing something we think is good for ourselves but is ultimately harmful.
Great question of which I have dealt with many times. I am not Calvinist or Arminian in view. I would like to believe I am a Biblical thinker. First, God's knows everything. If I can accept this then that is a major step in dealing with the question. Second, I make free choices every day. One clear statement in the Gospels is the direct and interesting use of a counterfactual by Christ. It is my conviction that this counterfactual disqualifies all attempts of Calvinist and Arminians arguments.
Here is the text of the counterfactual I am speaking about. Notice the fact that in this account, FREE WILL drips off the page, it cannot be denied and the counterfactual nails it to the wall when it comes to any argument pro or con against free will of mankind in regards to a God / man relationship.
Luke 10:13-16 – “Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.
“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
I believe this speaks for itself and if accepted answers your question point blank and once in for all. Jesus is God so why not accept what he says.
A counterfactual is what would have happened if I had turned left instead of right. God knows all counterfactuals, what might have been that was not but should it have been he know our of his nature as God what the outcome would be, He is God, knowing is not a problem for Him. I don't understand that kind of ability, but I accept it. To God Be All Glory.
Blessing your way
Here is the text of the counterfactual I am speaking about. Notice the fact that in this account, FREE WILL drips off the page, it cannot be denied and the counterfactual nails it to the wall when it comes to any argument pro or con against free will of mankind in regards to a God / man relationship.
Luke 10:13-16 – “Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.
“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
I believe this speaks for itself and if accepted answers your question point blank and once in for all. Jesus is God so why not accept what he says.
A counterfactual is what would have happened if I had turned left instead of right. God knows all counterfactuals, what might have been that was not but should it have been he know our of his nature as God what the outcome would be, He is God, knowing is not a problem for Him. I don't understand that kind of ability, but I accept it. To God Be All Glory.
Blessing your way
Well...I would think God could have made the woman show you favor. But He will also test our trust of Him by taking us to a point and a place where we have nothing to lean on. It's for our own good, to grow our trust so it comes out as gold, pure, strong, even no matter what our circumstances look like. In that case, if that was what He was doing, He certainly could have moved her to not show you favor. But it would be to grow you if He did. It would be to bless you, not to harm you.
Sometimes we think our trust (our faith) is stronger than it is and we see a lack of it in ourselves only when a crutch is knocked away that we didn't think we were leaning on.
As for if other peoples free will interferes with or thwarts Gods will for us in our lives, I don't believe it for a second. He works all things to the good of those who love Him and are called by Him. Joseph understood this after he looked back over many years, which began with his brothers selling him into slavery. And when he looked back he said: you meant it for harm but God meant it for good.
Darkness cannot overcome light. It can only APPEAR to us to do so sometimes. Our sight is so very limited!
This is a hard question to answer without understanding everything. I know that i will not understand everything while here on earth, so it will continue to be hard to fully understand. By faith i trust that God loves me and that His will is best for me so faith is the key to this question.
The frontal lobe of the brain is the set to our choices and there are many things that influence the choices we make like the lower passions, and reason, and morals, and drugs, etc. When we say "Lord your will be done not mine" we are choosing to do Gods will and follow Gods will and obey Gods will not our own. Do, follow and obey means effort on our part. God doesn't get in our head and force us to do things against our will. We do not become robots with no control. We choose to surrender our control with the ability to take control back at any time. Paul said that he dies daily, it is a continual process of giving up our will to allow God to have His will. So we continually have free will, God's will is for us to know and choose.
I don't want to take away from Gods sovereignty and also state that God's will is always done.
The frontal lobe of the brain is the set to our choices and there are many things that influence the choices we make like the lower passions, and reason, and morals, and drugs, etc. When we say "Lord your will be done not mine" we are choosing to do Gods will and follow Gods will and obey Gods will not our own. Do, follow and obey means effort on our part. God doesn't get in our head and force us to do things against our will. We do not become robots with no control. We choose to surrender our control with the ability to take control back at any time. Paul said that he dies daily, it is a continual process of giving up our will to allow God to have His will. So we continually have free will, God's will is for us to know and choose.
I don't want to take away from Gods sovereignty and also state that God's will is always done.
jsr1221
Free will does not exist....self will does in scripture.
The ability to make choices does not speak to the will.
No...God's providence goes on exactly as God has decreed.
No... we are responsible to think God's thoughts after him.Eccl12
[FONT="]13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.[/FONT]
Yes...
There you go...you can see it makes no sense...
Your will is bound by your nature.
Free will does not exist....self will does in scripture.
The ability to make choices does not speak to the will.
No...God's providence goes on exactly as God has decreed.
No... we are responsible to think God's thoughts after him.Eccl12
[FONT="]13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.[/FONT]
Yes...
There you go...you can see it makes no sense...
Your will is bound by your nature.
Only in the minds of those who prefer delusion to reality.
Au contraire it is the essential function of the will.
While human beings are sinners by birth and by choice, they can and do make choices which are not always evil or sinful. Indeed God has given to us this revelation about ordinary human beings (Rom 2:6-16).
6 [God] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Au contraire it is the essential function of the will.
While human beings are sinners by birth and by choice, they can and do make choices which are not always evil or sinful. Indeed God has given to us this revelation about ordinary human beings (Rom 2:6-16).
6 [God] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Sometimes I wish that I had no freewill and God made all my choices for me. Clearly he does not, though, or I would never make any mistakes...
The scripture instructs us to submit our will unto the Lord. So it is our choice to submit to God or not.
Like in the case of Jonah...He won't make us do his will, but he can make us wish we had...Still though, it is our own choice to submit and do his will or not.
The scripture instructs us to submit our will unto the Lord. So it is our choice to submit to God or not.
Like in the case of Jonah...He won't make us do his will, but he can make us wish we had...Still though, it is our own choice to submit and do his will or not.
Actually, you're dealing with a believer in the word of God, who defines God based upon what saith the Scriptures rather than putting God into man made definitions.
God declared He was going to destroy Nineveh in forty days.
Nineveh cried out to God in their wickedness.
God did not destroy Nineveh.
God changed His mind because of the change in Nineveh.
*The story of Nineveh destroys an Calvinistic beliefs. Calvinists change the wording and privately interpret the book of Jonah.
God declared He was going to destroy Nineveh in forty days.
Nineveh cried out to God in their wickedness.
God did not destroy Nineveh.
God changed His mind because of the change in Nineveh.
*The story of Nineveh destroys an Calvinistic beliefs. Calvinists change the wording and privately interpret the book of Jonah.
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God is not limited. We have to stop thinking of God from a human viewpoint, and see him as an eternal being.
Him knowing us does not remove or destroy free will, It just says God knows what we will do with our free will.
That is not going to stop Gods plan, God has things he wants to do, He wants us to be a part of it, but he will not force us, If we do not do it, he will get someone else. We can not thwart Gods plan, we can be a part of it, or we can chose to remain on the sidelines in some areas.. But his will will get done.
Him knowing us does not remove or destroy free will, It just says God knows what we will do with our free will.
That is not going to stop Gods plan, God has things he wants to do, He wants us to be a part of it, but he will not force us, If we do not do it, he will get someone else. We can not thwart Gods plan, we can be a part of it, or we can chose to remain on the sidelines in some areas.. But his will will get done.
I am with the poster who says man is not born with a will that is free. It is born already in vicious slavery. If it weren't so, small children would not have to be taught to not bite, to not kick, to share.
Mostly what we define as free will is an amalgamation of the teaching of expected manners and societal norms and the inward desire to be accepted rather than shunned.
Mostly what we define as free will is an amalgamation of the teaching of expected manners and societal norms and the inward desire to be accepted rather than shunned.